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Thread: Questions and Answers

  1. #1
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    Questions and Answers

    Last fall prior to going to California I attended a CCDL meeting and made inquiries regarding the purpose and goals of the organization. I believed at the time and currently believe that the 1,500 plus members who have signed up to be counted should have some idea about exactly what the Connecticut Citizens Defense League plans for it's future.

    To anyone who cares,

    It is my understanding that I have a letter awaiting my return to CT. from Northern Virgina where the CCDL is refusing to answer my questions with claims that they are a private organization together with the fact that my request is "MOOT" because I stated my intention to resign over the lack of information and the way my request was handled by the Vice President of CCDL at the meeting.

    I will be posting the complete response upon my return to CT.

    I am and will remain an fervent supporter of Consitutional Rights and the Constitutions of The State of Connecticut and the Federal Government.

    I am particularly supportive of Second Amendment rights!

    What I couldn't understand when I began to ask questions and cannot understand as I type this post is why the leadership of CCDL claims to have a membership of 1,500 plus individuals without any accountablilty to same or way to find out exactly what the membership needs or desires.

    I only hope that this message is received by those that remain supporters of CCDL so that they may make similar requests as members.

    I beleive that any organization that touts their membership numbers should have a pretty good idea on what the members think.

    More on this topic will follow.

    Ed Peruta


    This is the string of emails that explain what has happened:


    From:
    CCDL President [mailtoresident@ccdl.us]
    Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 11:56 AM
    To: Edward Peruta
    Cc: redacted
    Subject: RE: Follow-up to my formal request for answers to questions etc.


    Good afternoon Ed,

    a response to the questions you have submitted is in the mail.

    Best Regards,



    Scott Wilson Sr.
    President
    CCDL, Inc.
    www.ccdl.us



    From: Edward Peruta [mailto:edperuta@amcable.tv]
    Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 1:21 PM
    To: 'President@ccdl.us'; 'romma1@yahoo.com'
    Cc: redacted
    Subject: Follow-up to my formal request for answers to questions etc.



    Scott,

    It has been 10 days since I sent this formal request for information and questions, and I have as of this date, not received a reply or acknowledgment of the email.
    Given the fact that it is summer and many individuals are on vacation I have remained hopeful that a response will be forthcoming soon.
    I am therefore again submitting the formal request and asking the an acknowledgment be sent to me that it has been received.
    I am fully prepared to understand any reasonable delay in responding, but believe CCDL should at least acknowledge and respond in a timely manner.

    We may also find time, (should I attend), to discuss my request and questions at the picnic scheduled on August 27th.

    If for any reason the Connecticut Citizenís Defense League though its officers and executive board chooses to ignore my request or not respond, I will also understand.
    As you must know, I believe in transparency in government and the organization I support, and know full well that CCDL is not a public agency and may choose their course of action regardless of my formal request.


    Respectfully,

    Edward A. Peruta
    860-978-5455



    _____________________________________________
    From: Edward Peruta [mailto:edperuta@amcable.tv]
    Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:32 AM
    To: 'President@ccdl.us'; 'romma1@yahoo.com
    Cc: 'secretary@ccdl.us'
    Subject: Formal request for answers to questions etc.



    CCDL, Inc.
    P.O. Box 642
    Groton, CT 06340

    Attn: President Scott Wilson - Connecticut Citizenís Defense League
    Secretary - Connecticut Citizenís Defense League
    Executive Board Members of the Connecticut Citizenís Defense League

    Re: Individual memberís formal written request for information


    Scott,

    Over the past several years I have advocated membership in, support of, and contribution to the Connecticut Citizenís Defense League under what may be a misconception of the organizations goals and planned involvement with firearm issues in Connecticut.

    Due to the comments made to me, and a question asked of me at a meeting about my planned votes for candidates in the November 2010 election by CCDL Vice President Lenny Benedetto along with other statements and interactions at meetings, I am compelled to put my questions in writing.

    In order to more properly understand the goals and workings of the Connecticut Citizens Defense league, I have as a member of CCDL on several occasions privately and at meetings, requested information on specific topics.

    As of this date, I have not received any information specific to my requests.

    Therefore I am making my inquiries for the record in writing.

    I also ask that this letter be read into the record of the next meeting of CCDL and meeting of the Executive Board so that it may be reflected in the official minutes of CCDL.

    If possible, please provide me with answers to the following questions and place same on a meeting agenda in the near future for discussion.

    1. What specifically prohibits the Connecticut Citizens Defense League, (CCDL), from making one or more monetary payments/contributions to support Second Amendment related civil litigation?

    2. Are financial contributions to support litigation prohibited if in fact the litigation being supported clearly benefits the goals of the group and membership?

    3. Are funds donated to CCDL Tax Deductible to the person making the donation?

    4. Does CCDL separate funds donated for specific reasons?

    5. Is CCDL obligated to pay taxes on funds donated by individuals?

    6. Would expenditures by CCDL in support of legal issues/cases which benefit the CCDL membership be deductible to CCDL against any tax obligation owed by CCDL?

    7. Are individuals offered any type of confidentiality regarding their contact information when joining the Connecticut Citizenís Defense League?

    8. What are the current policies of CCDL regarding requests by individual members to distribute Second Amendment related information or requests for support to the general membership though the CCDL email system?

    9. Are the CCDL Corporate documents and by-laws available to the members?

    10. Are the financial records of CCDL open to examination by members?

    As a member of CCDL, please provide access to the following information regarding the organization.

    1. A current copy of the Connecticut Citizens Defense Leagueís corporate documents, together with any by-laws and/or policies regarding the organization.

    2. The CCDL policies and procedures which address the receipt and expenditure of dues, donations and funds received through the sale or raffling of items by the group.

    2. A complete accounting of all revenue received and expenditures made since the date of Incorporation. This request is specific to the actual sources of any revenue received together with the specific expenditures made by check or cash.

    3. The agendas and minutes of all executive board meetings held since the date of incorporation.

    4. A complete list of the other members of CCDL.

    5. The status of any requests to have CCDL recognized as a Not for Profit organization.

    6. Any legal opinions regarding limitations on the involvement of CCDL in various activities.


    Respectfully,

    Edward A. Peruta
    38 Parish Road
    Rocky Hill, CT. 06067

    860-978-5455

    edperuta@amcable.tv

  2. #2
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    Why all the requests for members names and emails and such? I wouldn't expect any legit org to pass out member's personal info to anyone who asks. I'd consider it right up there with asking the state for a list of permit holders, or asking OC.org for a list of all it's members, and just as offensive to even ask for such a thing.
    Last edited by Mopar; 08-03-2011 at 09:43 PM.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    I completely agree with the request for the financial information. Every group needs to be accountable to the members. They should be able to account for each and every dollars gained from membership dues and donations. I would also be a little wary about requesting other members potentially personal information. Are you just seeking basic information in order to confirm membership levels? Let us know how they respond.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  4. #4
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mopar View Post
    Why all the requests for members names and emails and such? I wouldn't expect any legit org to pass out member's personal info to anyone who asks. I'd consider it right up there with asking the state for a list of permit holders, or asking OC.org for a list of all it's members, and just as offensive to even ask for such a thing.
    I agree, but why not provide a mechanism for people to get in contact with all members as an alternative?

    Also, when someone inevitably questions the number of 1500+ members, how do you propose proving that number without releasing this information?
    Last edited by Rich B; 08-03-2011 at 09:50 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I agree, but why not provide a mechanism for people to get in contact with all members as an alternative?
    Why? Does OC.org allow people to send an email to all members? Does GOA or NRA? Can you ask GOA for a list of all it's members? Allowing people to contact your entire membership is called spam, and not only does it piss people off it can be illegal.

    Does the NRA send you the names email and addresses of all it's members to prove how many they have? The proof is in the action. When hundreds of people show up in Hartford to testify on a bill, and half of them are wearing CCDL buttons or stickers you know how big they are.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mopar View Post
    Why? Does OC.org allow people to send an email to all members?
    Yes. They have a great mechanism for allowing you to privately contact their members through Private Messaging.

    Allowing people to contact your entire membership is called spam, and not only does it piss people off it can be illegal.
    From what I see, those are the answers Ed is asking for. Why are they being avoided?

    Does the NRA send you the names email and addresses of all it's members to prove how many they have? The proof is in the action. When hundreds of people show up in Hartford to testify on a bill, and half of them are wearing CCDL buttons or stickers you know how big they are.
    Not unless the 1500+ we claim show up, which doesn't happen.

  7. #7
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    I get very pissed off when my email gets handed out without my permission.

    If CCDL does make my email address known to 3rd parties AT ALL I'd most likely resign my position in protest.

    See if Bob Crook will give out his email list (intentionally). Being a member of CCDL implies being a gun owner, some of the members probably do not want other folks knowing they own firearms (most I'd suspect) and once that email list is out of the CCDL's control you can't get it back.

    I thought Ed's statement of opinion at the meeting was clear enough, if the CCDL doesn't cough up money to the lawsuit or send out requests to the general membership to help pay for it then he considered himself resigned from the organization. It's a shame because Ed does seem to have ample time and energy to hold peoples feet to the fire, hopefully he can find a home with some other organization or create one of his own where he can write the rules.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldCoaster View Post
    I get very pissed off when my email gets handed out without my permission.

    If CCDL does make my email address known to 3rd parties AT ALL I'd most likely resign my position in protest.
    I don't see where anyone is asking for email addresses, am I missing something?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I don't see where anyone is asking for email addresses, am I missing something?

    4. A complete list of the other members of CCDL.

    A list of just the names? then what? I never told them what my mailing address was so the ONLY way given that to contact me would be if they gave out my email. Which they had better not!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Yes. They have a great mechanism for allowing you to privately contact their members through Private Messaging.



    From what I see, those are the answers Ed is asking for. Why are they being avoided?



    Not unless the 1500+ we claim show up, which doesn't happen.
    Members here can be contacted privately on a one to one basis, and only if they opt in to allow it. Even then no email address is revealed. From the OC forum rules: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
    3) PRIVACY: We respect the privacy of our members and will NEVER sell or make available our member's email or other contact information to third-parties.

    They also have rules against spamming. I would hope if someone tried to send unsolicited PMs to a large number of members their account would be banned in short order.

    I don't see anything being avoided. Ed's post states the reply is waiting for him at home, but he's out of state. Since Ed's post makes multiple references to "in writing", "this letter" and includes his mailing address it looks like this was sent by regular mail and the reply came the same way.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldCoaster View Post
    4. A complete list of the other members of CCDL.

    A list of just the names? then what? I never told them what my mailing address was so the ONLY way given that to contact me would be if they gave out my email. Which they had better not!
    Sounds to me like it needs clarification and possibly compromise. How would anyone else know what is available and what is able to be provided?

    For instance, would there be legal ramifications for releasing something like:

    Rich Bxxx 04/16/2010 rich@xxx.com
    John Dxxx 02/14/2002 johnnyboy@xxx.com

    ?

    Where are the limits, where are the problem, why no communication?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Not unless the 1500+ we claim show up, which doesn't happen.
    And that's a ridiculous argument. NRA claims what, 4.5 million dues paying members? So if 4.5 million people don't show up to testify on a bill or call a senator the NRA doesn't have that many members?

  13. #13
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mopar View Post
    Members here can be contacted privately on a one to one basis, and only if they opt in to allow it. Even then no email address is revealed. From the OC forum rules: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
    3) PRIVACY: We respect the privacy of our members and will NEVER sell or make available our member's email or other contact information to third-parties.
    And to my knowledge, CCDL has no such method. Is it not at all possible to see how this might be useful?

    They also have rules against spamming. I would hope if someone tried to send unsolicited PMs to a large number of members their account would be banned in short order.
    I have yet to see anyone request the ability to do this.

    I don't see anything being avoided. Ed's post states the reply is waiting for him at home, but he's out of state.
    You might have missed it, but he summarized what the reply said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Peruta
    It is my understanding that I have a letter awaiting my return to CT. from Northern Virgina where the CCDL is refusing to answer my questions with claims that they are a private organization together with the fact that my request is "MOOT" because I stated my intention to resign over the lack of information and the way my request was handled by the Vice President of CCDL at the meeting.
    That doesn't look like it is full of answers to me.

  14. #14
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    Full of hot air...

    I am SOOOOOOOOOOO tired of hearing Rich B and Ed P bitch and moan. They are like little old ladies. Yes, Ed P funnels legal cases to a particular lawyer that he deals with. Yes, Rich B is now part of that clan. Both are pure troublemakers. I just wish that they would both crawl back under the rock that they apparently share together.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mopar View Post
    And that's a ridiculous argument. NRA claims what, 4.5 million dues paying members? So if 4.5 million people don't show up to testify on a bill or call a senator the NRA doesn't have that many members?
    It wouldn't be the first time it has been questioned.

    I asked a question and you haven't answered it. What is proposed as a solution if someone asks the CCDL to prove its claimed membership numbers?

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    you could get some names from the CCDL facebook page....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    It wouldn't be the first time it has been questioned.

    I asked a question and you haven't answered it. What is proposed as a solution if someone asks the CCDL to prove its claimed membership numbers?
    I did answer you, right in the beginning. The proof is in the actions. It doesn't matter the number, and I don't see where ANY org of ANY type has ever HAD to prove it's size. If they have 200 members and all 200 members are actively supporting the cause, or they have 2000 members and 200 of them are actively supporting the cause, what's the difference? The only thing that really matters is the results. Nobody REALLY questions the NRA because when if needed they DO muster millions of members, and the politicians know it.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mopar View Post
    I did answer you, right in the beginning. The proof is in the actions. It doesn't matter the number, and I don't see where ANY org of ANY type has ever HAD to prove it's size. If they have 200 members and all 200 members are actively supporting the cause, or they have 2000 members and 200 of them are actively supporting the cause, what's the difference? The only thing that really matters is the results. Nobody REALLY questions the NRA because when if needed they DO muster millions of members, and the politicians know it.
    So the answer is: We tell them to just believe us.

    That answers my question, thank you.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanoboy7 View Post
    you could get some names from the CCDL facebook page....
    Good point. I wonder if that could be an official policy through an 'opt-in' strategy.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanoboy7 View Post
    you could get some names from the CCDL facebook page....
    I think that they are too lazy to do this... As with paying for Rich and Ed's LATEST lawsuit, they want others to do all of the work.

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    And apparently if it's deemed of interest to CCDL membership there IS a means of using their email list. I see this in a email from CCDL dated 5/24/2011:

    CCDL Member and Activist Rich Burgess is moving forward with a prolific 2nd Amendment case stemming from an arrest in Wallingford that could potentially affect all of us as gun owners in Connecticut. If you wish to learn more about this case, and care to help Rich with some support ,please follow this link: http://withregardstorights.com/

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    It wouldn't be the first time it has been questioned. What is proposed as a solution if someone asks the CCDL to prove its claimed membership numbers?

    --Moderator Edited for content--


    Its actions and results that count...

    But, when you are having a temper tantrum, it must have SOME value to you.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mopar View Post
    And apparently if it's deemed of interest to CCDL membership there IS a means of using their email list. I see this in a email from CCDL dated 5/24/2011:

    CCDL Member and Activist Rich Burgess is moving forward with a prolific 2nd Amendment case stemming from an arrest in Wallingford that could potentially affect all of us as gun owners in Connecticut. If you wish to learn more about this case, and care to help Rich with some support ,please follow this link: http://withregardstorights.com/
    Yes. I personally emailed Scott Wilson to get that in the email.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    So the answer is: We tell them to just believe us.

    Yes! Why would we fake the numbers???? The reporting of our membership numbers is so that those that care about the organization, can see how we are growing and for no other reason.

    You and my "Good Friend" Eddie seem to think that the organization that OTHERS have put THEIR blood sweat and tears into building are now somehow at your beckon call.
    Sorry Son that is not the way it works.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny Benedetto View Post
    Yes! Why would we fake the numbers????
    I don't think anyone has accused you of doing anything of the sort. My question about what the response would be to proof of membership is one of curiosity. If the answer is as I stated above, I see no reason for concern.

    The reporting of our membership numbers is so that those that care about the organization, can see how we are growing and for no other reason.
    Aren't they quite important to letting representatives know how many people they are speaking to and listening to when the organization speaks?

    You and my "Good Friend" Eddie seem to think that the organization that OTHERS have put THEIR blood sweat and tears into building are now somehow at your beckon call.
    Sorry Son that is not the way it works.
    Spare me the vitriol. I didn't send the questions, nor did I post them or the responses. I am asking reasonable questions about the request and the responses. Discussion of a topic sure seems like an acceptable use of the forum. If you don't like Ed, that is fine, you have made that clear. I have not requested or demanded anything of you or the organization.
    Last edited by Rich B; 08-03-2011 at 10:50 PM.

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