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Questions and Answers

Mopar

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
29
Location
, Connecticut, USA
And apparently if it's deemed of interest to CCDL membership there IS a means of using their email list. I see this in a email from CCDL dated 5/24/2011:

CCDL Member and Activist Rich Burgess is moving forward with a prolific 2nd Amendment case stemming from an arrest in Wallingford that could potentially affect all of us as gun owners in Connecticut. If you wish to learn more about this case, and care to help Rich with some support ,please follow this link: http://withregardstorights.com/
 

FMJ

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
36
Location
Old Greenwich, CT
It wouldn't be the first time it has been questioned. What is proposed as a solution if someone asks the CCDL to prove its claimed membership numbers?

--Moderator Edited for content--


Its actions and results that count...

But, when you are having a temper tantrum, it must have SOME value to you.
 

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
And apparently if it's deemed of interest to CCDL membership there IS a means of using their email list. I see this in a email from CCDL dated 5/24/2011:

CCDL Member and Activist Rich Burgess is moving forward with a prolific 2nd Amendment case stemming from an arrest in Wallingford that could potentially affect all of us as gun owners in Connecticut. If you wish to learn more about this case, and care to help Rich with some support ,please follow this link: http://withregardstorights.com/

Yes. I personally emailed Scott Wilson to get that in the email.
 

Lenny Benedetto

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
470
Location
VP of CCDL, Inc., ,
So the answer is: We tell them to just believe us.


Yes! Why would we fake the numbers???? The reporting of our membership numbers is so that those that care about the organization, can see how we are growing and for no other reason.

You and my "Good Friend" Eddie seem to think that the organization that OTHERS have put THEIR blood sweat and tears into building are now somehow at your beckon call.
Sorry Son that is not the way it works.
 

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
Yes! Why would we fake the numbers????

I don't think anyone has accused you of doing anything of the sort. My question about what the response would be to proof of membership is one of curiosity. If the answer is as I stated above, I see no reason for concern.

The reporting of our membership numbers is so that those that care about the organization, can see how we are growing and for no other reason.

Aren't they quite important to letting representatives know how many people they are speaking to and listening to when the organization speaks?

You and my "Good Friend" Eddie seem to think that the organization that OTHERS have put THEIR blood sweat and tears into building are now somehow at your beckon call.
Sorry Son that is not the way it works.

Spare me the vitriol. I didn't send the questions, nor did I post them or the responses. I am asking reasonable questions about the request and the responses. Discussion of a topic sure seems like an acceptable use of the forum. If you don't like Ed, that is fine, you have made that clear. I have not requested or demanded anything of you or the organization.
 
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Mopar

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
29
Location
, Connecticut, USA
Yes. I personally emailed Scott Wilson to get that in the email.

And virtually every month for the last year and a half or so (since your unlawful arrest) you've been given a chance to discuss your case in front of the membership at the monthly meetings, right? So obviously there are multiple means of reaching the membership WITHOUT just turning over a list to someone do as they please.
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
There are now 25 or so posts in this thread. The debate seems to revolve around member information and membership numbers. I think
we should slow down and wait for Ed to respond in reference to what he intended by asking for a list of members. I will ask the question directly. Ed, what did you mean when you requested a list of all members? What specifically are you looking for in terms of information related to members?
 

beanoboy7

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
68
Location
Hartford, Connecticut, United States
Good point. I wonder if that could be an official policy through an 'opt-in' strategy.

I tend to read the posts by CCDL on my facebook newsfeed than e-mail. Much more convenient. It's pretty neat as we can comment to the post, and recommend other's to "like" the page. The post on the page wouldn't bother me as much as mass e-mails would.
 

Mopar

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
29
Location
, Connecticut, USA
From: Edward Peruta [mailto:edperuta@amcable.tv]
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 1:21 PM
To: 'President@ccdl.us'; 'romma1@yahoo.com'
Cc: redacted
Subject: Follow-up to my formal request for answers to questions etc
Just noticed this. Why is the cc list redacted? That's rather odd, since everywhere else you posted the cc emails. Who else was sent this one email, and why is it redacted?
 

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
And virtually every month for the last year and a half or so (since your unlawful arrest) you've been given a chance to discuss your case in front of the membership at the monthly meetings, right? So obviously there are multiple means of reaching the membership WITHOUT just turning over a list to someone do as they please.

Again, I have not requested the list, Ed has. Take that up with him.

I have had every chance to speak to a small part of the membership on a regular basis. And I do so.
 

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
I tend to read the posts by CCDL on my facebook newsfeed than e-mail. Much more convenient. It's pretty neat as we can comment to the post, and recommend other's to "like" the page. The post on the page wouldn't bother me as much as mass e-mails would.

I have to say, that is not a bad idea, I was checking out the FB page and there are a lot of people there. I think that should have been part of the response.

Is there any mechanism to ensure that the people on the FB page are members? Are they added to the membership list as the join FB? Or are the lists separate entity?
 

beanoboy7

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
68
Location
Hartford, Connecticut, United States
I have to say, that is not a bad idea, I was checking out the FB page and there are a lot of people there. I think that should have been part of the response.

Is there any mechanism to ensure that the people on the FB page are members? Are they added to the membership list as the join FB? Or are the lists separate entity?

I'm sure they're separate entities as anyone can click "like" for the groups page. Can probably be made private, but it'll be another hoop that someone interested would have to go through, and to be honest it's a turnoff for someone who's interested in the organization and its cause.
 

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
I'm sure they're separate entities as anyone can click "like" for the groups page. Can probably be made private, but it'll be another hoop that someone interested would have to go through, and to be honest it's a turnoff for someone who's interested in the organization and its cause.

Yep, good point. Do you know if people who 'like' the FB page are automatically added as members?
 

KIX

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
960
Location
, ,
Many of the questions should be of no issue when an organization is legit. No reason for secrecy.

I do have an issue with the contact information being available to anyone who wants it. If someone wants to audit data, hell, we can find a mechanism for that. But to blatantly share info, I disagree.

i didn't hand out my contact information so it would be made available to third party sources. I also didn't sign anything that said I'm fine with CCDL sharing my information with third party sources. Quite frankly, if they did, I'd be VERY highly PO'd.

Jonathan
 

Shawn Mitola

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
138
Location
Shelton
Many of the questions should be of no issue when an organization is legit. No reason for secrecy.

I do have an issue with the contact information being available to anyone who wants it. If someone wants to audit data, hell, we can find a mechanism for that. But to blatantly share info, I disagree.

i didn't hand out my contact information so it would be made available to third party sources. I also didn't sign anything that said I'm fine with CCDL sharing my information with third party sources. Quite frankly, if they did, I'd be VERY highly PO'd.

Jonathan

^^^+1 I agree here 100% If you want to reach all the membership with a specific message then you should contact the leadership to have something put into the email. Until CCDL becomes a business or Non-profit organization they have no requirement to prove anything to anyone.

As far as I knew CCDL is basically a bunch of like minded people who get together to discuss 2nd amendment issues and coordinate protests/rallys/testifying, and things like this. I could be wrong but that was my assumption.
 

Mopar

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
29
Location
, Connecticut, USA
Many of the questions should be of no issue when an organization is legit. No reason for secrecy.

Jonathan

I agree some level of transparency is required, but how much? Here was another of Ed's requests from his original post:

2. A complete accounting of all revenue received and expenditures made since the date of Incorporation. This request is specific to the actual sources of any revenue received together with the specific expenditures made by check or cash.



Should anyone be able to put an organization through that amount of effort any time they want? While the info needs to exist, I imagine honoring a request like that would actually cost a fair amount of money. Could you imagine if everyone who's ever donated to the Red Cross requested such info from them?
A person could run a small org with very little money such as CCDL out of existence (or at least out of money) pretty quickly like that. Is that the intent? CCDL gives a basic financial statement at every meeting so members do have an idea of the financial health of the organization. I don't know that more then that is needed by anyone except the IRS. Like with the membership numbers I think there also needs to be some level of trust. You know the IRS gets that info every year, since you know the government isn't fining them or putting someone in jail you trust everything is ok. Since they are also telling you their bank balance every month you can pretty much see they aren't peeing the member's donations away.
 
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Edward Peruta

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
1,247
Location
Connecticut USA
Answers and corrections to assumptions by those posting will be made soon

There are now 25 or so posts in this thread. The debate seems to revolve around member information and membership numbers. I think we should slow down and wait for Ed to respond in reference to what he intended by asking for a list of members. I will ask the question directly. Ed, what did you mean when you requested a list of all members? What specifically are you looking for in terms of information related to members?

Thank you for your concern about facts.

I can assure you that I will offer a complete explaination along with facts to explain exactly what I was ask and why.

CCDL is not the first oranization I have supported or joined which gives me some insight into what I need to continue my membership and support.

The transparency of I seek does NOT require me, or anyone else to obtain. (or have access to), any contact infrormation of the individual members.

The first thing I would like everyone to know is that I made a verbal request for information back in the fall of 2010 at a meeting in Middletown.

I have had the CCDL response read to me via the phone and have no problems posting it when I get back to CT.

More will follow in the near future.
 

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
Many of the questions should be of no issue when an organization is legit. No reason for secrecy.

That is my stance on it. Whether CCDL is required to be transparent or not, transparency into any organization from its members is always a good thing. I can't imagine a valid argument against it.

I do have an issue with the contact information being available to anyone who wants it. If someone wants to audit data, hell, we can find a mechanism for that. But to blatantly share info, I disagree.

It seems a well reasoned adult agreement can be reached about what level of transparency into the member list (if any at all) is acceptable to all parties (including the members who have the largest stake in this discussion). I am not a fan of sharing personal info without consent either, although as everyone knows, I put mine out there quite readily. Others may be willing to the same, more, less or none. I think with the internet however, we have a lot of good potential for opt-in agreements and sharing. That is one of the things we discussed when we proposed DARC to the CCDL board. Having a crew of people who wanted to be 'more active' and would take any alerts (either passive or otherwise) and hopefully act on them right away. Hyper vigilant types. The types that post hundreds of messages to forums... Where could we find people like that? ;-)
 
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