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Thread: Genesee county fair.

  1. #1
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    Genesee county fair.

    I'm planning on going to the fair in a couple weeks, does anyone know if there will be any gun bans.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    From my knowledge of Michigan law, if the fairgrounds is on county property, there is no gun ban the will supercede preemption. So, carry away.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    I seem to remember hearing that the EA Cummings Center was privately owned and that the County leases the property. I could very well be wrong, so I sent an email to the County Parks asking if it's privately owned or County owned.

    Also, after looking on the Parks website I found this statement in their rules...

    "Section XXV – Firearms
    For purposes of these rules, the term “firearm” shall include any revolver, pistol, shotgun, rifle, air rifle, air gun, water gun, slingshot, BB gun or any gun, rifle, firearm or bow or other device which is designed to discharge projectiles or are models or facsimiles of these devices, which appear to be capable of doing so.

    No person shall possess or control any firearm (except those as permitted by MCL 28.421 et seq) upon properties administered by or under the jurisdiction of the Commission, except by prior written permission of the Commission or as allowed by the Commission from time to time in designated areas.
    No person shall discharge any firearm upon property administered by or under the jurisdiction of the Commission except by prior written permission of the Commission or as allowed by the Commission from time to time in designated areas.
    This section shall not apply to any law enforcement officer acting in the course of his/her official duties."

    http://www.geneseecountyparks.org/im...park_rules.pdf

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman View Post
    I seem to remember hearing that the EA Cummings Center was privately owned and that the County leases the property. I could very well be wrong, so I sent an email to the County Parks asking if it's privately owned or County owned.

    Also, after looking on the Parks website I found this statement in their rules...

    "Section XXV – Firearms
    For purposes of these rules, the term “firearm” shall include any revolver, pistol, shotgun, rifle, air rifle, air gun, water gun, slingshot, BB gun or any gun, rifle, firearm or bow or other device which is designed to discharge projectiles or are models or facsimiles of these devices, which appear to be capable of doing so.

    No person shall possess or control any firearm (except those as permitted by MCL 28.421 et seq) upon properties administered by or under the jurisdiction of the Commission, except by prior written permission of the Commission or as allowed by the Commission from time to time in designated areas.
    No person shall discharge any firearm upon property administered by or under the jurisdiction of the Commission except by prior written permission of the Commission or as allowed by the Commission from time to time in designated areas.
    This section shall not apply to any law enforcement officer acting in the course of his/her official duties."

    http://www.geneseecountyparks.org/im...park_rules.pdf

    I already received a response...and I was wrong.


    "The E. A. Cummings Center is owned by the Genesee County Parks and Recreation Commission."


    Deborah Wilkes, Secretary

    Genesee County Parks & Recreation Commission

    5045 Stanley Rd.

    Flint MI 48506

    Phone: 810-736-7100 ext 812

    810-249-3812

    FAX: 810-736-7220

    Email: dwilkes@gcparks.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman View Post
    I seem to remember hearing that the EA Cummings Center was privately owned and that the County leases the property. I could very well be wrong, so I sent an email to the County Parks asking if it's privately owned or County owned.

    Also, after looking on the Parks website I found this statement in their rules...

    "Section XXV – Firearms
    For purposes of these rules, the term “firearm” shall include any revolver, pistol, shotgun, rifle, air rifle, air gun, water gun, slingshot, BB gun or any gun, rifle, firearm or bow or other device which is designed to discharge projectiles or are models or facsimiles of these devices, which appear to be capable of doing so.

    No person shall possess or control any firearm (except those as permitted by MCL 28.421 et seq) upon properties administered by or under the jurisdiction of the Commission, except by prior written permission of the Commission or as allowed by the Commission from time to time in designated areas.
    No person shall discharge any firearm upon property administered by or under the jurisdiction of the Commission except by prior written permission of the Commission or as allowed by the Commission from time to time in designated areas.
    This section shall not apply to any law enforcement officer acting in the course of his/her official duties."

    http://www.geneseecountyparks.org/im...park_rules.pdf
    Not that it matters much due to preemption (123.1102), the highlighted portion above is saying those with a CPL are exempt (see link below).

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(itt...ct-372-of-1927

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    WhIle most fairgrounds in Michigan are privately owned, one notable exception is the genesee county fairgrounds, which as mentioned above is in fact county owned property.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  7. #7
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Not that it matters much due to preemption (123.1102), the highlighted portion above is saying those with a CPL are exempt (see link below).

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(itt...ct-372-of-1927
    I think if you are legally carrying a firearm, it is allowed. I took this from Grand Rapids' response to the question about their firearm law... and think it applies here too:

    " local ordinance references persons who have been issued valid licenses pursuant to MCL 28.421 et seq. The Latin phrase et seq. means, roughly, “and the following” sections. Thus, the City Code is referencing several state law provisions, including but not limited to: (1) MCL 28.421a et seq., (which establishes a standardized system for the issuance of concealed pistol licenses), and also MCL 28.422 (which requires individuals to obtain pistol purchase licenses). Additional sections of State law regarding firearms are also referenced as well. These are simply examples." and, further on she states:

    "Therefore, City Code section 9.173 does not prohibit a person who legally purchased a pistol through obtaining a pistol purchase permit, or a person with a valid CPL (who does not need a separate purchase permit in order to purchase another handgun) from carrying the firearm – openly or concealed – within the City limits. Both of those classes of individuals have been issued “a valid license to do so as provided by Act 372 of Michigan Public Acts of 1927, as amended (MCL 28.421 et seq.)”.

    Therefore, it appears that if a person is following state law, they can carry.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 08-05-2011 at 04:14 PM.
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    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Thanks for the info guys.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I would also believe that a Pistol Purchase Permit (License) is also an exception.

    So if you don't have a CPL but did purchase your sidearm legally you should be good to go also.

    Please don't carry a long arm at the fair.

  10. #10
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougwg View Post

    Please don't carry a long arm at the fair.
    Yes, please don't.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    phone call today

    i called the county fair hotline today just to do one last check before i made the trip to the fairgrounds and was told that no firearms were allowed. Has anyone been out there? and are there any signs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattswit View Post
    i called the county fair hotline today just to do one last check before i made the trip to the fairgrounds and was told that no firearms were allowed. Has anyone been out there? and are there any signs?
    If the fairground are county owned, they can't deny firearm carry.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattswit View Post
    i called the county fair hotline today just to do one last check before i made the trip to the fairgrounds and was told that no firearms were allowed. Has anyone been out there? and are there any signs?
    signs are irrelevant, they do not have the power of law, i walked past no firearms signs several times at the St Clair Riverfest last month and was not stopped by security or law enforcement. it was on public property.

    just go and make sure you are rolling audio and/or video.
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 08-16-2011 at 11:20 AM.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattswit View Post
    i called the county fair hotline today just to do one last check before i made the trip to the fairgrounds and was told that no firearms were allowed. Has anyone been out there? and are there any signs?
    The fairgrounds are county owned. (See email below)


    "The E. A. Cummings Center is owned by the Genesee County Parks and Recreation Commission."


    Deborah Wilkes, Secretary

    Genesee County Parks & Recreation Commission

    5045 Stanley Rd.

    Flint MI 48506

    Phone: 810-736-7100 ext 812

    810-249-3812

    FAX: 810-736-7220

    Email: dwilkes@gcparks.org

  15. #15
    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    They have no legal recourse against anyone, although they might still try. IMO

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    I placed a phone call to the fair director. I am waiting for his return call. He was already looking into the firearm situation before I called. I'll post any updates as I get them.

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    I was already planning on attending the fair later this afternoon. Our household is in dire need of elephant ears.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  18. #18
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    I was already planning on attending the fair later this afternoon. Our household is in dire need of elephant ears.
    There's a picture......
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Update... Just left the fair. Spent about 3 hrs walking around. No signs and no issues.

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    Sorry that I missed you. I also spent a while roaming around the fair. No issues. Then again, the type of people who raise cattle and horses are not generally anti-gun.

    I did not see any signs. I felt that a couple of people (teachers?) at the "recall snider" booth looked at me a little funny as I walked by.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    Sorry that I missed you. I also spent a while roaming around the fair. No issues. Then again, the type of people who raise cattle and horses are not generally anti-gun.

    I did not see any signs. I felt that a couple of people (teachers?) at the "recall snider" booth looked at me a little funny as I walked by.
    People at "recall Snyder" booths look at me funny too...I'm usually laughing at them and their weak effort. Maybe that explains it.

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    I didn't even see any LEO there other than the ones directing traffic on the way in.

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