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Thread: Opinions on asking for declaratory ruling from Attorney General?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Opinions on asking for declaratory ruling from Attorney General?

    This was mentioned on another thread.

    I can see good and bad for this, and Jonathan expressed some concern, so I figure we should put our heads together before doing anything.

    The pros I can see:

    - We have a different AG.
    - The state has a different climate towards OC. LEOs are slowly starting to get it.
    - We have multiple cases of officers doing the wrong thing and the mess it will cause them as incentive for the state to stop the madness.
    - The law is on our side. Ruling anything different than what we have would be damaging to the AG's reputation.


    I believe the worst that can happen is he will ignore us or keep deferring us to other people like Ed Peruta experienced previously.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Cons:

    This AG is even worse then the last on gun control (look at all the legislation and assault weapons crap he's responsible for)
    He will use his "opinion" and further hurt our cause by having more permits pulled by LEOS unless we get a law through
    This AG is so far to the left, it wouldn't hurt his reputation. He's already guaranteed to be reelected and this won't generate any political heat
    Any anti-gun traction he can create I think will help him gain in public (misinformed) opinion.

    I just think it's a bad idea, personally. I can be wrong, but I just don't have faith. Look at his history and form your own opinion.....

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    He will use his "opinion" and further hurt our cause by having more permits pulled by LEOS unless we get a law through
    A law through for what? There is no law needed to make OC legal. BFPE cannot be coerced into pulling permits from OCers. They have to abide by the law as written.


    This AG is so far to the left, it wouldn't hurt his reputation. He's already guaranteed to be reelected and this won't generate any political heat
    Any anti-gun traction he can create I think will help him gain in public (misinformed) opinion.
    A fair point, but I am not convinced. Blumenthal enjoyed the liberal spotlight for many years and did everything he could to make his stupid ideas public. And he wouldn't touch the issue with a 10 foot pole.


    Here is a question for the brains around here:

    Is there any actual legal/administrative/procedural recourse for overriding an AG declaratory ruling if it is blatantly false?

  4. #4
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    A law through for what? There is no law needed to make OC legal. BFPE cannot be coerced into pulling permits from OCers. They have to abide by the law as written.
    More of a modification to the BoP statute. Something that provides clear recourse for unlawful imprisonment even. Or even a tightening up of the law.

    Either way, we need to somehow work the BoP laws so it isn't a "catch all" for LEOs when they have nothing else to charge you with.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    More of a modification to the BoP statute. Something that provides clear recourse for unlawful imprisonment even.
    I actually think the BoP statute is quite clear. You must actually intend to do something, and it cannot be just passively exercising your freedom.
    I have never heard of a statute including penalties for officers abusing the statute. Do you have an example?

    As far as I know, the penalty for that has always been and probably always should be a 1983 civil suit for rights deprivation. If it is a continued pattern of abuse, there is also a federal statute for abuse under color of law.

    Either way, we need to somehow work the BoP laws so it isn't a "catch all" for LEOs when they have nothing else to charge you with.
    I don't believe that is an issue for the legislature. That is an issue for the judicial system.



    We have laws in this state that agree with open carry and disagree with officers who don't like open carry. We just need to make them accountable for not following those laws. The only proper way to do that is to have judges tell them to cut it out.

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    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    I think your case, Mr. Sultan are examples.

    Why should we have to keep going to courts or BFPE hearings.

    Something clearly ain't working!

    Not saying I totally disagree with you at all, just sayin'..... just ain't workin'......

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    I think your case, Mr. Sultan are examples.

    Why should we have to keep going to courts or BFPE hearings.

    Something clearly ain't working!

    Not saying I totally disagree with you at all, just sayin'..... just ain't workin'......

    Jonathan
    Well that is not the question though. The question is what the solution is.

    The solution is for an authority to tell the PDs to cut it out. All the proper information has been made accessible to them and some departments are ignoring them.

    Someone above the PDs needs to slap their hands and tell them how to behave.

    Be it by judge or by Attorney General.

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    A request for a declaratory ruling was made to Blumenthal. He just ignored it. So will this guy. He is NOT a friend of gun owners.

    I am in favor of it though. Worst case scenario, he does ignore it. But maybe, a really big maybe, he sees it as a chance to win some Right votes and just answers the question. I think this would be an almost end-all win for OC. The police couldn't possibly ignore the AG's ruling.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGust82 View Post
    Worst case scenario, he does ignore it.
    Right. I cannot see even a complete liar (I know, I am talking about politicians, right?) trying to interpret the laws incorrectly in this case.

    It should pretty plain text and clear to even the simple minded that there is no statute to apply against open carry.

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    Attorney Generals do what they are told

    I cornered the diminuitive Mr Blumenthal at a fundraiser a few years back and thanked him for being on the side of the people of this state and after that asked him point blank when we could expect him to issue a declaratory ruling on the subject of open carry of firearms and the law enforcement could then be notified. He said "Oh yes the open carry thing, yes" and did what every politician (which is what he always is first and foremost) did.. sidestep the question.

    Jepsen will do the same thing.

    If Martha Dean were AG not only would there be a ruling issued, it would be pushed down so that even traffic wardens would know it.

    There is absolutely zero interest in expanding any rights or comforts (since it already is a right) for gunowners in this state. Where other states are becoming more libertarian CT is getting worse by the day.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldCoaster View Post
    If Martha Dean were AG not only would there be a ruling issued, it would be pushed down so that even traffic wardens would know it.

    There is absolutely zero interest in expanding any rights or comforts (since it already is a right) for gunowners in this state. Where other states are becoming more libertarian CT is getting worse by the day.
    What do you propose we do instead?

  12. #12
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    What do you propose we do instead?
    elect Martha Dean!!!!

    Was pretty close as I recall. I think that race bugged me the most. I stumped really hard for her to get elected.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    elect Martha Dean!!!!
    I think we can do more than sit around waiting for the white knight for four years, no?

  14. #14
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    I think this is where you are coming in with your lawsuit.

    I still think this is the best avenue of pursuit.

    Of course, in 4 months, the memos will start rolling around and the concealed carry thing will again be on the radar. As we do every November or so and see if anyone drafts anything for the legislative session on behalf of the DPS..... or whatever their new acronym is this month.....

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    I think this is where you are coming in with your lawsuit.

    I still think this is the best avenue of pursuit.
    My lawsuit is going to take years as any federal suit does. I think we should try and be more ambitious than this.

    Of course, in 4 months, the memos will start rolling around and the concealed carry thing will again be on the radar. As we do every November or so and see if anyone drafts anything for the legislative session on behalf of the DPS..... or whatever their new acronym is this month.....
    It didn't even get proposed as a bill this year. Lets try and keep it that way.
    Last edited by Rich B; 08-04-2011 at 02:48 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Not as a bill, but they did send a memo to the legislature.

    I hope all the testifying we did last year shows that the numbers are growing and we will not stand for this.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Not as a bill, but they did send a memo to the legislature.
    That has all the significance of a monkey farting on a snare drum. The important aspect that I wish we knew more about is why it was ignored unlike previous years.

    I hope all the testifying we did last year shows that the numbers are growing and we will not stand for this.
    That, or the legislators were too busy with the pet bills to try and push through a known loser, or some combination of both.
    Last edited by Rich B; 08-04-2011 at 03:33 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    You need to stop with these hilarious as all hell expressions. I'm trying to keep my "Rich B." quotes in my signature down to a weekly change.....

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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