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Thread: Illegal sign in York County PUBLIC Library

  1. #1
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Illegal sign in York County PUBLIC Library

    My kids told me about signs located on ALL the tables in the Yorktown branch of the public library. Here is the sign. This photo was taken around 3pm 4 AUG, 2011.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  2. #2
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    photo...


    OR NOT...

    I guess I'm too stupid to be able to attach a photo to a posting.

    The sign says "Carying weapons of any type" is prohibited in the library.

    Oh really? SINCE WHEN?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  3. #3
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    From here:

    Rule 9.B.12

    TFred

    ETA: They also prohibit service animals other than for blind or hearing-impaired. I don't know if there is any state law on this, but there are definitely other service animals in use out there.
    Last edited by TFred; 08-04-2011 at 04:00 PM.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    ETA: They also prohibit service animals other than for blind or hearing-impaired. I don't know if there is any state law on this, but there are definitely other service animals in use out there.
    That would violate the ADA of 1990.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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  5. #5
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I'd love to see them try to have someone arrested for Ocing. It would be interesting. I'll start on an e-mail to Sheriff Diggs.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    I'd love to see them try to have someone arrested for Ocing. It would be interesting. I'll start on an e-mail to Sheriff Diggs.
    Maybe they just don't know... shouldn't we give them the chance to fix it first? ::shrug:: Your find, your call.

    TFred

  7. #7
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Maybe they just don't know... shouldn't we give them the chance to fix it first? ::shrug:: Your find, your call.

    TFred
    Sent an "I'm rather confused" e-mail to Sheriff Diggs. Perhaps he can 'splain it to me in better English.
    I just don't understand the sign.
    It appears to prohibit me from lawfully defending my family from Bad Things at the public library in York County, VA...

    Mike
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  8. #8
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    I may be wrong, but wasn't there something about this a while back? May be in the OC in HR thread? I vaguely remember someone communicating about this with Sheriff Diggs and the Library Administrator.

  9. #9
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    I may be wrong, but wasn't there something about this a while back? May be in the OC in HR thread? I vaguely remember someone communicating about this with Sheriff Diggs and the Library Administrator.
    Yep.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1580476

  10. #10
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Thanks I just found it too.

    This should have already been taken care of:
    Posted 07-25-2011 10:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    As a followup, here's the Library Director's response. Note that he responded to the Sheriff & the County Attorney.
    Mr. Barnett & Sheriff Diggs,
    I am aware of the State law and have informed the staff that citizens to do have a right to carry "arms" into the library whenever they occasionally do so. This is an apparent oversight in updating the Rules and Regulations of Conduct section of the Library Policies. I will have the Library Board revise the policy at their August meeting.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1580820

    It shouldn't take two weeks to remove the signs!
    Last edited by Wolf_shadow; 08-04-2011 at 04:59 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    Thanks I just found it too.

    This should have already been taken care of:
    Posted 07-25-2011 10:39 AM


    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1580820

    It shouldn't take two weeks to remove the signs!
    Apologies to all for not "catching up" before posting this. I just returned from a library/grocery store/get dinner trip.
    First leg of the trip was to the library where I very politely brought one of the signs to The Librarian of the Yorktown Branch (Norma).

    I pointed out to her the "illegal" sign and tried to explain Preemption. She wasn't interested.
    I suggested she re-word the sign to read "Illegal weapons prohibited" or something to that effect.
    She put her hand up in a 'Talk to the Hand' gesture and turned her back on me saying "That isn't my problem.
    Its up to someone else..."

    I THOUGHT I knew this lady. At least I used to know her. I guess I don't anymore.

    When were the signs supposed to be repaired/replaced?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  12. #12
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    If you check this post, you'll find this:

    "I cc'd my e-mail to the Library Director to Sheriff Diggs (and to PVC). Sheriff Diggs' response follows.
    I have forwarded your discovery of the problem with the library's conduct code to the county attorney. I assume that he will advise the library of this problem and ask them to correct it. Please note that this policy was implemented in 2003 and I do not know if the state law had been passed at that time. I would also assume that this is an oversight on their part. Until the policy is corrected, please be assured that no action will be taken by deputies as we realize that state law supersedes library policy."

    I'll send e-mail to the Drector of Library Services. He assured me in an earlier e-mail that his staff was fully familiar with State Law regarding firearms carry.
    Last edited by 2a4all; 08-04-2011 at 08:23 PM.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Open carry in to the library. If she objects give her the talk to the hand gesture.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    http://www.yorkcounty.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=5129

    I'm not doing anything tomorrow. Maybe I'll drop by with my copy of Atlas Shrugged to read in a nice quiet environment.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by t33j; 08-04-2011 at 08:27 PM.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Open carry in to the library. If she objects give her the talk to the hand gesture.
    LOL! I like that suggestion...

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    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Open carry in to the library. If she objects give her the talk to the hand gesture.
    Be slow and deliberate with the hand gesture though lest you be charged with brandishing your hand.

  17. #17
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    I'm 90% sure you mean the older library near Yorktown proper and not the one in Tabb. Am I correct?
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    If you check this post, you'll find this:

    "I cc'd my e-mail to the Library Director to Sheriff Diggs (and to PVC). Sheriff Diggs' response follows.
    I have forwarded your discovery of the problem with the library's conduct code to the county attorney. I assume that he will advise the library of this problem and ask them to correct it. Please note that this policy was implemented in 2003 and I do not know if the state law had been passed at that time. I would also assume that this is an oversight on their part. Until the policy is corrected, please be assured that no action will be taken by deputies as we realize that state law supersedes library policy."

    I'll send e-mail to the Drector of Library Services. He assured me in an earlier e-mail that his staff was fully familiar with State Law regarding firearms carry.
    You just have to love that man!

  19. #19
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    How about this from their own code of conduct

    "B. The following actions are prohibited ....

    16. Any other illegal acts or conduct in violation of Federal, State or local law, ordinance or regulation."


    Aren't they now breaking their own code of conduct by behaving contrary to State Law?

    "C. Failure to comply with the Library’s established rules and regulations may result in exclusion from the Library for the day or permanently, and/or in arrest"

    perhaps they ought to be arrested per their own policy
    Last edited by scouser; 08-04-2011 at 09:13 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    You say that in jest, but in all seriousness... 15.2-915 is state code just like speeding or running red lights...

    Can't the Sheriff arrest and charge the library boss for breaking this state law just as well as any other?

    Why would ignorance of the law or especially "I just haven't gotten around to it yet" (try that for an expired inspection sticker!) be an acceptable excuse?

    TFred

  21. #21
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    photo...


    OR NOT...

    I guess I'm too stupid to be able to attach a photo to a posting.

    The sign says "Carying weapons of any type" is prohibited in the library.

    Oh really? SINCE WHEN?
    Were you ever able to get a picture posted? I'd like to see the sign, if it's possible.

    TFred

  22. #22
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser
    "B. The following actions are prohibited...
    16. Any other illegal acts or conduct in violation of Federal, State or local law, ordinance or regulation."
    Aren't they now breaking their own code of conduct by behaving contrary to State Law?

    "C. Failure to comply with the Library’s established rules and regulations may result in exclusion from the Library for the day or permanently, and/or in arrest"
    perhaps they ought to be arrested per their own policy
    I like the way this one thinks!
    When is the next library board / town council meeting?
    Take one of the signs for show & tell.
    Or better, take all the signs & recycle them. They're not good for anything.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I'd be tempted to go back to the library, collect ALL the signs, then have a companion videotape you in the act of handing the signs to the librarian on duty, while telling them clearly (for the tape) that the signs are in violation of Virginia law, and you are informing them of such on tape, and if you come back and find them out again, you will swear out a warrant for their arrest.

    I don't know if you can actually do that, but neither will they! Maybe someone can tell us if that would work.

    TFred

  24. #24
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I think somebody is having a hard time reconciling their personal beliefs with state law. Maybe they should get a job more attuned with their established beliefs.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
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  25. #25
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Just got back from spending over an hour at the Yorktown library.

    No signs, no negative interactions, no problems.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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