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Thread: MOC vs. CADL shows us why we need a dedicated legal fund set up in all states for OC.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Centurion's Avatar
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    Exclamation MOC vs. CADL shows us why we need a dedicated legal fund set up in all states for OC.

    Saw this on MOC's website and thought it should be posted here. This makes sense to me as it is clear we cannot count on the NRA, ACLU, FBI, DOJ, AG. MSP or any other letter jumble to protect our civil rights.

    http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/...5.html#msg9595

    <snip w/link added L.B.P. story>
    I have contributed to this fund and hope for the best (little hard to know the outcome when Judges rule based on feelings???). One thing I can say is this - If open carry is ever to be taken seriously it needs to bloody the nose of the anti-oc elements in government (L.Brooks Patterson) http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...ams_gun-t.htmletc... This case was brought because the corrupt officials in Lansing saw the "chink" in the OC movements armor, and that is lack of a general defense fund and the ability to defend against these frivolous legal [illegal] actions using our own tax dollars against us. They will throw away money without a care all while crying "poor mouth"!

    Far too often OCers are singled out by corrupt departments and left to fight the entire legal system [with its unlimited resources] on their own. Most people cannot afford the tens of thousands of dollars it can take to fight a "trumped up" charge(s) and are left to "twist in the wind" so to speak by the OC community.

    Let this be a warning to all who OC, you do so at your own risk! {please continue to carry, better to risk a bad LEO than a Bad guy encounter}. If you are targeted for whatever reason by a bad apple in law enforcement / city government you are on your own! There is no funding in place at this time, and as I see it, none planned in the coming future. So keep these thoughts in the back of your mind:
    1. Can I afford the costs of a defense?
    2. Can I afford the multiple days off from work a trial will bring and the loss of income; will I lose my job?
    3. Am I ready for the months or even years, I could have my life turned upside down dealing with the legal[illegal] system?

    It's a personal choice to OC, but without a dedicated group to stand LEGALLY/FINANCIALLY behind individual OCers we will never truly be safe! I hope this post gets you thinking about some of the risks, and if it does, take action. Ask our leaders to establish a General legal defense fund and donate to it. Why? Because one day you could be the "unlucky" OCer.

  2. #2
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    Ive always known Im on my own in this.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    I though the NRA said they would get involved at the appeals level? What about SAF and GOA? And where is MCRGO in all this? I have asked in multiple threads if MOC leadership is receiving help form these organizations and no one will answer me.
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 08-05-2011 at 12:57 PM.

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    Because the people we fund, and count on are ignoring this.

  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Because the people we fund, and count on are ignoring this.
    It isn't those who oppose us that we need to be so concerned about, it's the inaction of our "friends"....
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    I know this truth all too well.

    You know who your friends are...

  7. #7
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    We need people with money to donate. Yet many of those are ran off by the immature shortsightedness of a couple people.

    While there are a select few in Michigan that seem to attract 99% of the bad attention they also seem to be BROKE and can't hardly take care of themselves much less donate money to a legal fund.

    They continually attract NEGATIVE attention making others look bad.

    Those that have their lives in order, a job, house, family etc don't like to be grouped in with these morons and take their support and extra money that could be donated and disappear.



    Run off everyone with money and all you're left with is bums.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    hey, they haven't run me off yet... or you
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  9. #9
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    key word....yet

  10. #10
    Regular Member bandersnatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougwg View Post
    We need people with money to donate. Yet many of those are ran off by the immature shortsightedness of a couple people.

    While there are a select few in Michigan that seem to attract 99% of the bad attention they also seem to be BROKE and can't hardly take care of themselves much less donate money to a legal fund.

    They continually attract NEGATIVE attention making others look bad.

    Those that have their lives in order, a job, house, family etc don't like to be grouped in with these morons and take their support and extra money that could be donated and disappear.



    Run off everyone with money and all you're left with is bums.
    Not that I have a lot of money laying around, but for the most part, yes...this ^.

    "Are you sure Hank done it this way?" - Waylon Jennings

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    If you've noticed, cases that have been forwarded through SAF or NRA resources are cases where the litigants are only the "cleanest" individuals as a party to the case. The reason that they do this is so the case is decided purely on the legal issues, rather than by social considerations.
    That being said, I am unsure whether that explains some hesitance in support.
    Almost everyone seems to be saying that the people who served as catalysts to this are in part to blame for this coming up at this point in time. But, wouldn't it be wiser to deal with that at some other time and instead do the best we can fighting what we have been dealt. We could argue the events that led to the court case for years, and we would find probably as many views as we would individual members. Yes, it should be a discussion... but let's not have our opinions about the facts leading up to this cause us to waver in our resolve to fight this. Let's face it, on the most basic level this is purely an example of a government entity trying to destroy the ability of citizens to be able to effectively defend themselves. This is a war folks and if this is allowed to stand, it is only the beginning.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  12. #12
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    If you've noticed, cases that have been forwarded through SAF or NRA resources are cases where the litigants are only the "cleanest" individuals as a party to the case. The reason that they do this is so the case is decided purely on the legal issues, rather than by social considerations.
    That being said, I am unsure whether that explains some hesitance in support.
    Almost everyone seems to be saying that the people who served as catalysts to this are in part to blame for this coming up at this point in time. But, wouldn't it be wiser to deal with that at some other time and instead do the best we can fighting what we have been dealt. We could argue the events that led to the court case for years, and we would find probably as many views as we would individual members. Yes, it should be a discussion... but let's not have our opinions about the facts leading up to this cause us to waver in our resolve to fight this. Let's face it, on the most basic level this is purely an example of a government entity trying to destroy the ability of citizens to be able to effectively defend themselves. This is a war folks and if this is allowed to stand, it is only the beginning.
    True! A citizen or citizens have been violated.We Citizens have rights and must Fight for theses Rights! It"s that simple! K.I.S.S Method! CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member Get2DahChopper's Avatar
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    Question Did I miss something?

    My read of the OP comments are we need to establish a legal fund. Pretty simple, what they got was a lot of biotching about a couple of smack-tards that have attached themselves to our group somehow like "suckerfish" on a shark. Let's not worry about this handful of goofs. Instead let's worry about the responsible people who carry legally everyday that could have the bad fortune to run into officer FUDGE YOU & YOUR "F"ing RIGHTS!

    I know I could not afford to fend off the resources of a whole city/county/state prosecution on my own, could you?

  14. #14
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    Nope. I have donated, and will again when I can, but we need to establish a predictable resource for all who OC.

  15. #15
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    I could defend myself in a lawsuit. Of course, it'd set me back significantly/financially.

    That being said, I too made a donation to the CADL case. I wish I could have afforded more.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I could defend myself in a lawsuit. Of course, it'd set me back significantly/financially.

    That being said, I too made a donation to the CADL case. I wish I could have afforded more.
    Good on you sir. I think the point is we (all who OC in every state) need a general defense fund, not a case by case pass the hat & pray type scenario. That approach is often the too little, too late, way of handling a problem, as we now know...(I hope)???
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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