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Thread: Riot At State Fair Park During The State Fair....

  1. #1
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Riot At State Fair Park During The State Fair....

    Here...

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/126828998.html

    Which raises the question... What to do in this senario... Large mob coming at you.. with intent to cause severe bodily harm....???

    I guess Fully Loaded with a few extra Mags, is a good idea....

    Just sayin...

    Outdoorsman1

    Edited To Add: Quote frm a witness...

    ""There was very little security," he said. "And the few that were there would have been overwhelmed by the sheer number of troublemakers," Pries said....
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 08-05-2011 at 12:34 PM.
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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    We have multiple threads on this. You had better have a first choice plan other than to use your firearm. Remember the phrase "imminent threat to life"... The jury must be convinced that this condition existed....

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    Regular Member Pyro01's Avatar
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    According to the warren doctrines and disparity of force, if there's a mob of twenty people coming at you, any person in that mob is contributing to the fear of imminent great bodily harm or death. If you draw your gun on this mob of twenty people and aim at the guy in front and miss, and hit the guy behind him who is also in the mob, then you're technically legal because the person behind him was contributing to the fear the mob has caused. Look at 5:45 in this youtube video of Massad Ayoob's Judicial Use of Deadly Force.

    THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!

    http://youtu.be/AJazmbDH7S8
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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    We have multiple threads on this. You had better have a first choice plan other than to use your firearm. Remember the phrase "imminent threat to life"... The jury must be convinced that this condition existed....
    Sorry, but I only seen this one... And I did not want to "Highjack" that thread....

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...sin-State-Fair

    Unless you are talking about the national forums..??

    I am thinking 20 or (much) more mob mentality youn men coming towards you beating people as they advance MIGHT be considered an imminent threat to life or at the very least the possiblity of great bodily harm...

    Obvioulsy if there was time I would retreat (first choice plan), but if taken by suprise and cut off of any means to retreat, I would draw my firearm in self defense and if possible offer up a very LOUD verbal warning, and then, actually pulling the trigger would depend on the intelligence of my attackers...

    Just Sayin...

    Outdoorsman1
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 08-05-2011 at 12:48 PM.
    "On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait - and waiting, died."

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Outdoorsman1, Look At This Link Please....

    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    Sorry, but I only seen this one... And I did not want to "Highjack" that thread....

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...sin-State-Fair

    Unless you are talking about the national forums..??

    I am thinking 20 or (much) more mob mentality youn men coming towards you beating people as they advance MIGHT be considered an imminent threat to life or at the very least the possiblity of great bodily harm...

    Obvioulsy if there was time I would retreat (first choice plan), but if taken by suprise and cut off of any means to retreat, I would draw my firearm in self defense and if possible offer up a very LOUD verbal warning, and then, actually pulling the trigger would depend on the intelligence of my attackers...

    Just Sayin...

    Outdoorsman1
    It isn't specifically labeled about the State Fair: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...cts-in-custody!!!
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    We have multiple threads on this. You had better have a first choice plan other than to use your firearm. Remember the phrase "imminent threat to life"... The jury must be convinced that this condition existed....
    5-6 Attackers can easily - beat / kick / stab someone to death, sometimes it only takes 1 or 2 attackers.. specially if you are a woman being attacked.............Your Honor, my client ..Stopped the threat of Death & or great bodily harm which could have resulted in my clients death - by using his Legally carried concealed weapon. Your honor as stated by my client, the Black youths in question ..repeatedly said they were going to kill this white devil as they were beating & kicking him Mercilessly on the ground...he had no other choice but to use his Pistol to defend himself as my client believed he was going to die.

    I would rather be Judged by 12 , than be Paralyzed or carved up by a Coroner & then be carried by six......
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 08-05-2011 at 01:18 PM.
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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    It isn't specifically labeled about the State Fair: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...cts-in-custody!!!
    Well then... No wonder I did not see it as based in the TITLE, I did not read it....

    Glock34 said...

    .... .............Your Honor, my client ..Stopped the threat of Death & or great bodily harm which could have resulted in my clients death - by using his Legally carried concealed weapon.
    Or in my case....

    .............Your Honor, my client ..Stopped the threat of Death & or great bodily harm which could have resulted in my clients death - by using his Legally Open Carried firearm.

    Outdoorsman1
    "On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait - and waiting, died."

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    Here in Indiana, the state fair is one of the few places citizens are prohibited from carrying, so, if the same thing happened here, even folks who aren't normally vulnerable would be.

    Of course, that happy, joy-joy feeling at the fair without having to see scary guns is obviously far more important than the little people being able to defend their families. I'm just glad our benevolent overseers had the wisdom and foresight to think about that.

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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011/...to-defend.html

    by Gabe Suarez

    The Flash Mob Attack - How To Defend?



    COLUMBIA, SC (WIS) - All eight suspects are in custody after a brutal attack in Five Points early Monday morning which left the teenage victim in critical condition, according to Columbia police.
    CHICAGO, IL (WLS) -- The recent series of mob-style attacks on Chicago's Near North Side mark the first major hurdles facing Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Chicago's new police superintendent Garry McCarthy. The latest attack happened Tuesday night. A witness tells WGN 15-20 teens beat and robbed two people at Chicago and Wabash
    AKRON, OH -- Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.
    NO. VIRGINIA -- Three people were beaten by mobs in Northern Virginia in two separate incidents that occurred within five minutes of each other on Saturday night, authorities said.


    These events have consumed the discussion at most self-defense focused websites in the last few weeks. Accompanying the discussion is the usual hand wringing regarding what to do if one is beset by a gang of thugs bent on your destruction. Well, I have my views on this which will no doubt shock the senses of the Doodley Doo Rights of the gun world.



    First, this was not some group of young teenaged honor students. In all cases it was a group of urban thugs. Second, they were not there to practice for their debate on the ills of capitalism. Third, they understand only one thing...violence. So understand who they are and be ready to speak their language.



    1). Don't go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things. Simple but often ignored. Listen, we do not live in a fair world where everyone respects everyone else. Nor where everyone gets along. You may in fact be totally color-blind in a socio-ethnic sort of way, but not everyone is. So even if your liberal sociology professor thinks it is a cool thing to take a stroll at midnight through a ethnically homogenous part of town (different ethnicity that you), it is still a stupid idea.






    2). Always have a method to defend yourself. Even if it is not socially acceptable, or in line with the rules of the day, having some sort of weapon is essential. Right about now, some of the Doodley Doo Rights are screaming that I am telling people to violate the law. Well, go and google these stories. Look at the faces of the victims...specially the one on life support right now. Put yourself in their shoes. Your choice is to arm yourself in violation of the rules, or to take the raping, beating and robbery? What would you choose?



    3). Avoid if you can. If you are standing around and see a group of twenty young urban thugs about two blocks away yelling, "kill whitey", and looking at your reflection in the store window, realize that you have not been in the sun in a while, here is my advice - "RUN". If it looks like trouble, it probably is. The gang is not there to debate the effects of american corporate expansion on the development of the urban neighborhoods with you.



    4). If you cannot avoid, attack...brutally and viciously. This is not the time to worry about some goofball fear monger's articles about being sued, nor about anything of the sort. It is time to deploy your weapons and attack the leaders. Listen folks, there is disparity of force by the sheer number against you and the knowledge you have based on these prior flash mob events.



    If you have limited yourself by the rules and only have a knife, be certain you know how to use it. Make it big enough that it will cause extreme pain and bleeding when you stab the attacker. This is not the place for a legally carried tomato peeler that is two inches or less. You need a fixed or folding knife that is at least 4 inches long.



    When the time comes, do not flash the knife like you are some crocodile dundee type guy ("that's not a knife"). Stab the first man deep and hard in his face and move to the next guy and repeat the exercise. Do the same to anyone within reach. When their buddies reel back, screaming in horror and pain, holding their bloodied faces with eyeballs hanging out, it will create hesitation. Use that time to disengage.



    If you have a pistol, please make sure it is a modern high capacity weapon with a couple of spare magazines in your belt. The Suarez International company gun, a Glock 17 with three magazines, yields a sum total of 52 rounds. Figure three rounds per man, and you can reduce an angry mob of panga swinging killers into a fleeing group of bloodied bad guys. Draw it and yell, "Get The F*** Back!" If they do, run away. If they do not, shoot the first man in the face. The rest will take care of itself.



    It really is very simple. Might you get into trouble? Sure, but being in jail because you stabbed three guys on the street is far better than being in the hospital having holes drilled into your head to relieve the pressure on your brain while the female members of your party are getting HIV exams in the next room. The only way to defeat brutality is with extreme and greater brutality.



    Keep that in mind, arm yourself properly and if it comes, be brutal.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Pyro01's Avatar
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    Interesting article, disparity of force is on our side!
    Join Wisconsin Carry today, defend your rights!

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    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Angry these teen thugs tick me off

    "The only way to defeat brutality is with extreme and greater brutality."
    And most people are far too civilized to explode a barrel of whup-a$$ in front of their attacker(s).
    How many videos have we seen of victims - adults facing a teen mob - who try to plead or reason with the thugs? And the thugs think it's funny.

    A serious, loud, assertive "leave me alone!" with direct eye contact is all the warning I'd give if caught in a situation like that. (And why wasn't I paying attention?)
    They keep coming, I'll draw.
    They have the option to leave or be stopped. I hope they leave.

    Oh, they're only kids...
    They probably don't mean to hurt anyone...

    Bovine feces.

    They're a mob. They're not acting individually, & they sure as Hades aren't thinking individually (or at all, in some cases).
    And yes, they do mean to hurt people. So do whatever it takes to keep them from hurting you & yours. As long as you're alive, you did the right thing. You can go to therapy & second-guess yourself later.

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    Regular Member BrewTownBagger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip20 View Post
    http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011/...to-defend.html

    by Gabe Suarez

    The Flash Mob Attack - How To Defend?



    COLUMBIA, SC (WIS) - All eight suspects are in custody after a brutal attack in Five Points early Monday morning which left the teenage victim in critical condition, according to Columbia police.
    CHICAGO, IL (WLS) -- The recent series of mob-style attacks on Chicago's Near North Side mark the first major hurdles facing Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Chicago's new police superintendent Garry McCarthy. The latest attack happened Tuesday night. A witness tells WGN 15-20 teens beat and robbed two people at Chicago and Wabash
    AKRON, OH -- Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.
    NO. VIRGINIA -- Three people were beaten by mobs in Northern Virginia in two separate incidents that occurred within five minutes of each other on Saturday night, authorities said.


    These events have consumed the discussion at most self-defense focused websites in the last few weeks. Accompanying the discussion is the usual hand wringing regarding what to do if one is beset by a gang of thugs bent on your destruction. Well, I have my views on this which will no doubt shock the senses of the Doodley Doo Rights of the gun world.



    First, this was not some group of young teenaged honor students. In all cases it was a group of urban thugs. Second, they were not there to practice for their debate on the ills of capitalism. Third, they understand only one thing...violence. So understand who they are and be ready to speak their language.



    1). Don't go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things. Simple but often ignored. Listen, we do not live in a fair world where everyone respects everyone else. Nor where everyone gets along. You may in fact be totally color-blind in a socio-ethnic sort of way, but not everyone is. So even if your liberal sociology professor thinks it is a cool thing to take a stroll at midnight through a ethnically homogenous part of town (different ethnicity that you), it is still a stupid idea.






    2). Always have a method to defend yourself. Even if it is not socially acceptable, or in line with the rules of the day, having some sort of weapon is essential. Right about now, some of the Doodley Doo Rights are screaming that I am telling people to violate the law. Well, go and google these stories. Look at the faces of the victims...specially the one on life support right now. Put yourself in their shoes. Your choice is to arm yourself in violation of the rules, or to take the raping, beating and robbery? What would you choose?



    3). Avoid if you can. If you are standing around and see a group of twenty young urban thugs about two blocks away yelling, "kill whitey", and looking at your reflection in the store window, realize that you have not been in the sun in a while, here is my advice - "RUN". If it looks like trouble, it probably is. The gang is not there to debate the effects of american corporate expansion on the development of the urban neighborhoods with you.



    4). If you cannot avoid, attack...brutally and viciously. This is not the time to worry about some goofball fear monger's articles about being sued, nor about anything of the sort. It is time to deploy your weapons and attack the leaders. Listen folks, there is disparity of force by the sheer number against you and the knowledge you have based on these prior flash mob events.



    If you have limited yourself by the rules and only have a knife, be certain you know how to use it. Make it big enough that it will cause extreme pain and bleeding when you stab the attacker. This is not the place for a legally carried tomato peeler that is two inches or less. You need a fixed or folding knife that is at least 4 inches long.



    When the time comes, do not flash the knife like you are some crocodile dundee type guy ("that's not a knife"). Stab the first man deep and hard in his face and move to the next guy and repeat the exercise. Do the same to anyone within reach. When their buddies reel back, screaming in horror and pain, holding their bloodied faces with eyeballs hanging out, it will create hesitation. Use that time to disengage.



    If you have a pistol, please make sure it is a modern high capacity weapon with a couple of spare magazines in your belt. The Suarez International company gun, a Glock 17 with three magazines, yields a sum total of 52 rounds. Figure three rounds per man, and you can reduce an angry mob of panga swinging killers into a fleeing group of bloodied bad guys. Draw it and yell, "Get The F*** Back!" If they do, run away. If they do not, shoot the first man in the face. The rest will take care of itself.



    It really is very simple. Might you get into trouble? Sure, but being in jail because you stabbed three guys on the street is far better than being in the hospital having holes drilled into your head to relieve the pressure on your brain while the female members of your party are getting HIV exams in the next room. The only way to defeat brutality is with extreme and greater brutality.



    Keep that in mind, arm yourself properly and if it comes, be brutal.
    Well Said!

  14. #14
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip20 View Post
    http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011/...to-defend.htmlKeep that in mind, arm yourself properly and if it comes, be brutal.
    It's called SHOCK AND AWE just don't use the PC castrated version they sold as shock and awe when we went into Iraq this last time. That was hardly shocking and certainly not awe inspiring.

    You hit them with no warning, fast, hard, and repeatedly until they either 1) no longer have the desire or ability to attack or 2) retreat fully.

    In the civillian world, before you strike, you damn well better be in fear of death or great bodily injury.
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    Regular Member 1FASTC4's Avatar
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    You are all racists for bringing this up. It doesn't matter if none of you mentioned race. Just ask the government.

    These sort of things are happening all over with increasing frequency, but the govt is sweeping it under the rug... it's not politically correct to address them. Here's the short version of the govt's position: Basically, it's ok to kill whitey.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    "The only way to defeat brutality is with extreme and greater brutality."
    And most people are far too civilized to explode a barrel of whup-a$$ in front of their attacker(s).
    How many videos have we seen of victims - adults facing a teen mob - who try to plead or reason with the thugs? And the thugs think it's funny.

    A serious, loud, assertive "leave me alone!" with direct eye contact is all the warning I'd give if caught in a situation like that. (And why wasn't I paying attention?)
    They keep coming, I'll draw.
    They have the option to leave or be stopped. I hope they leave.

    Oh, they're only kids...
    They probably don't mean to hurt anyone...

    Bovine feces.

    They're a mob. They're not acting individually, & they sure as Hades aren't thinking individually (or at all, in some cases).
    And yes, they do mean to hurt people. So do whatever it takes to keep them from hurting you & yours. As long as you're alive, you did the right thing. You can go to therapy & second-guess yourself later.
    Signature Worthy...

    Now thats funny...


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  17. #17
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    [B]

    A serious, loud, assertive "leave me alone!" with direct eye contact is all the warning I'd give if caught in a situation like that. (And why wasn't I paying attention?)
    As the survivor of several mob attacks, the most brutal being an ambush by a mob of Illinois Nazis, I can say with absolute certainty if you even think about trying that it is already way too late for you.

    The only way to survive is to identify the situation and run. If you can't run you better have numbers who will back you up, disarm the mob and use their weapons against them. Just remember that good guys will be mistaken for bad guys in the melee and will be hit. If you are alone and have a firearm you had better identify the mob from a block away and dissuade them long before they reach you. And that's the rub. Are they a mob from a block away? Or just a group of teens walking down the sidewalk? If they ambush you, you are screwed.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    Regular Member 1FASTC4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    As the survivor of several mob attacks, the most brutal being an ambush by a mob of Illinois Nazis, I can say with absolute certainty if you even think about trying that it is already way too late for you.

    The only way to survive is to identify the situation and run. If you can't run you better have numbers who will back you up, disarm the mob and use their weapons against them. Just remember that good guys will be mistaken for bad guys in the melee and will be hit. If you are alone and have a firearm you had better identify the mob from a block away and dissuade them long before they reach you. And that's the rub. Are they a mob from a block away? Or just a group of teens walking down the sidewalk? If they ambush you, you are screwed.
    Hmm . I'm glad I have no reason or desire to go to any place where large groups of black people gather. Milwaukee is a real **** hole and has been for a long time. Wausau is about as far South as you'll find me in Wisconsin.

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1FASTC4 View Post
    Hmm . I'm glad I have no reason or desire to go to any place where large groups of black people gather. Milwaukee is a real **** hole and has been for a long time. Wausau is about as far South as you'll find me in Wisconsin.



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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post



    --Moderator Statement--


    NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!
    oh no..IFAST..you angered the Political correctness police... be careful there are libs amongst us. God forbid we hurt an entire "Groups" feelings.... oh, no..that would be aweful

    must not have been too bad...he did not delete your post...
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 08-07-2011 at 10:32 PM.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1FASTC4 View Post
    Hmm . I'm glad I have no reason or desire to go to any place where large groups of black people gather. Milwaukee is a real **** hole and has been for a long time. Wausau is about as far South as you'll find me in Wisconsin.
    It's not the color of someone's eyes that's the problem.
    It's not the color of someone's hair that's the problem.
    And it's not the color of someone's skin that's the problem.

    It's a culture, and those that subscribe to the culture that are the problem no matter if the skin is tan, brown, yellow, or blue.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    It's not the color of someone's eyes that's the problem.
    It's not the color of someone's hair that's the problem.
    And it's not the color of someone's skin that's the problem.

    It's a culture, and those that subscribe to the culture that are the problem no matter if the skin is tan, brown, yellow, or blue.
    so..then...your saying that we need to liquidate all cultures that have darker pigmentation / coloration in the skin ? huh...something to think about I guess....... But That does sound almost similar to what Hitler attempted to do with the Jews in Europe..& that did not work out so well for those at the Nuremburg Trials... of course they were just following orders
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 08-07-2011 at 10:47 PM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

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  23. #23
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    so..then...your[sic] saying that we need to liquidate all cultures that have darker pigmentation / coloration in the skin ? huh...something to think about I guess....... But That does sound almost similar to what Hitler attempted to do with the Jews in Europe..& that did not work out so well for those at the Nuremburg Trials... of course they were just following orders
    The gentleman may wish to read what I said again, this time with a bit more understanding. Perhaps he will note where I say that it's 'not about the color of someone's eyes, hair, nor skin' (that would be 'darker pigmentation' to alleviate any misconception on the subject.)

    A culture is the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization or group. It is not characterized by the amount of melanin in one's epidermis.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 08-08-2011 at 12:03 AM.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Even the extreme liberal Eugene Kane is calling these people thugs!

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/127072073.html
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Even the extreme liberal Eugene Kane is calling these people thugs!

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/127072073.html
    soon you will be branded a Racist for using the word Thug.....
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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