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Riot At State Fair Park During The State Fair....

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Outdoorsman1

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Silver Lake WI
Here...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/126828998.html

Which raises the question... What to do in this senario... Large mob coming at you.. with intent to cause severe bodily harm....???

I guess Fully Loaded with a few extra Mags, is a good idea....

Just sayin...

Outdoorsman1

Edited To Add: Quote frm a witness...

""There was very little security," he said. "And the few that were there would have been overwhelmed by the sheer number of troublemakers," Pries said....
 
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Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
We have multiple threads on this. You had better have a first choice plan other than to use your firearm. Remember the phrase "imminent threat to life"... The jury must be convinced that this condition existed....
 

Pyro01

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
202
Location
Menomonie, Wisconsin, USA
According to the warren doctrines and disparity of force, if there's a mob of twenty people coming at you, any person in that mob is contributing to the fear of imminent great bodily harm or death. If you draw your gun on this mob of twenty people and aim at the guy in front and miss, and hit the guy behind him who is also in the mob, then you're technically legal because the person behind him was contributing to the fear the mob has caused. Look at 5:45 in this youtube video of Massad Ayoob's Judicial Use of Deadly Force.

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!

http://youtu.be/AJazmbDH7S8
 

Outdoorsman1

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Joined
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Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
We have multiple threads on this. You had better have a first choice plan other than to use your firearm. Remember the phrase "imminent threat to life"... The jury must be convinced that this condition existed....

Sorry, but I only seen this one... And I did not want to "Highjack" that thread....

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?93646-Wisconsin-State-Fair

Unless you are talking about the national forums..??

I am thinking 20 or (much) more mob mentality youn men coming towards you beating people as they advance MIGHT be considered an imminent threat to life or at the very least the possiblity of great bodily harm...

Obvioulsy if there was time I would retreat (first choice plan), but if taken by suprise and cut off of any means to retreat, I would draw my firearm in self defense and if possible offer up a very LOUD verbal warning, and then, actually pulling the trigger would depend on the intelligence of my attackers...

Just Sayin...

Outdoorsman1
 
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rcawdor57

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
1,643
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Outdoorsman1, Look At This Link Please....

Sorry, but I only seen this one... And I did not want to "Highjack" that thread....

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?93646-Wisconsin-State-Fair

Unless you are talking about the national forums..??

I am thinking 20 or (much) more mob mentality youn men coming towards you beating people as they advance MIGHT be considered an imminent threat to life or at the very least the possiblity of great bodily harm...

Obvioulsy if there was time I would retreat (first choice plan), but if taken by suprise and cut off of any means to retreat, I would draw my firearm in self defense and if possible offer up a very LOUD verbal warning, and then, actually pulling the trigger would depend on the intelligence of my attackers...

Just Sayin...

Outdoorsman1

It isn't specifically labeled about the State Fair: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?93639-No-suspects-in-custody!!!
 

GLOCK21GB

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,347
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
We have multiple threads on this. You had better have a first choice plan other than to use your firearm. Remember the phrase "imminent threat to life"... The jury must be convinced that this condition existed....

5-6 Attackers can easily - beat / kick / stab someone to death, sometimes it only takes 1 or 2 attackers.. specially if you are a woman being attacked.............Your Honor, my client ..Stopped the threat of Death & or great bodily harm which could have resulted in my clients death - by using his Legally carried concealed weapon. Your honor as stated by my client, the Black youths in question ..repeatedly said they were going to kill this white devil as they were beating & kicking him Mercilessly on the ground...he had no other choice but to use his Pistol to defend himself as my client believed he was going to die.

I would rather be Judged by 12 , than be Paralyzed or carved up by a Coroner & then be carried by six......
 
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Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI

Well then... No wonder I did not see it as based in the TITLE, I did not read it....

Glock34 said...

.... .............Your Honor, my client ..Stopped the threat of Death & or great bodily harm which could have resulted in my clients death - by using his Legally carried concealed weapon.

Or in my case....

.............Your Honor, my client ..Stopped the threat of Death & or great bodily harm which could have resulted in my clients death - by using his Legally Open Carried firearm.

Outdoorsman1
 

freehoosiertim

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
10
Location
, Indiana, USA
Here in Indiana, the state fair is one of the few places citizens are prohibited from carrying, so, if the same thing happened here, even folks who aren't normally vulnerable would be.

Of course, that happy, joy-joy feeling at the fair without having to see scary guns is obviously far more important than the little people being able to defend their families. I'm just glad our benevolent overseers had the wisdom and foresight to think about that.
 

Trip20

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
526
Location
Wausau Area
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011/...to-defend.html

by Gabe Suarez

The Flash Mob Attack - How To Defend?



COLUMBIA, SC (WIS) - All eight suspects are in custody after a brutal attack in Five Points early Monday morning which left the teenage victim in critical condition, according to Columbia police.
CHICAGO, IL (WLS) -- The recent series of mob-style attacks on Chicago's Near North Side mark the first major hurdles facing Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Chicago's new police superintendent Garry McCarthy. The latest attack happened Tuesday night. A witness tells WGN 15-20 teens beat and robbed two people at Chicago and Wabash
AKRON, OH -- Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.
NO. VIRGINIA -- Three people were beaten by mobs in Northern Virginia in two separate incidents that occurred within five minutes of each other on Saturday night, authorities said.


These events have consumed the discussion at most self-defense focused websites in the last few weeks. Accompanying the discussion is the usual hand wringing regarding what to do if one is beset by a gang of thugs bent on your destruction. Well, I have my views on this which will no doubt shock the senses of the Doodley Doo Rights of the gun world.



First, this was not some group of young teenaged honor students. In all cases it was a group of urban thugs. Second, they were not there to practice for their debate on the ills of capitalism. Third, they understand only one thing...violence. So understand who they are and be ready to speak their language.



1). Don't go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things. Simple but often ignored. Listen, we do not live in a fair world where everyone respects everyone else. Nor where everyone gets along. You may in fact be totally color-blind in a socio-ethnic sort of way, but not everyone is. So even if your liberal sociology professor thinks it is a cool thing to take a stroll at midnight through a ethnically homogenous part of town (different ethnicity that you), it is still a stupid idea.






2). Always have a method to defend yourself. Even if it is not socially acceptable, or in line with the rules of the day, having some sort of weapon is essential. Right about now, some of the Doodley Doo Rights are screaming that I am telling people to violate the law. Well, go and google these stories. Look at the faces of the victims...specially the one on life support right now. Put yourself in their shoes. Your choice is to arm yourself in violation of the rules, or to take the raping, beating and robbery? What would you choose?



3). Avoid if you can. If you are standing around and see a group of twenty young urban thugs about two blocks away yelling, "kill whitey", and looking at your reflection in the store window, realize that you have not been in the sun in a while, here is my advice - "RUN". If it looks like trouble, it probably is. The gang is not there to debate the effects of american corporate expansion on the development of the urban neighborhoods with you.



4). If you cannot avoid, attack...brutally and viciously. This is not the time to worry about some goofball fear monger's articles about being sued, nor about anything of the sort. It is time to deploy your weapons and attack the leaders. Listen folks, there is disparity of force by the sheer number against you and the knowledge you have based on these prior flash mob events.



If you have limited yourself by the rules and only have a knife, be certain you know how to use it. Make it big enough that it will cause extreme pain and bleeding when you stab the attacker. This is not the place for a legally carried tomato peeler that is two inches or less. You need a fixed or folding knife that is at least 4 inches long.



When the time comes, do not flash the knife like you are some crocodile dundee type guy ("that's not a knife"). Stab the first man deep and hard in his face and move to the next guy and repeat the exercise. Do the same to anyone within reach. When their buddies reel back, screaming in horror and pain, holding their bloodied faces with eyeballs hanging out, it will create hesitation. Use that time to disengage.



If you have a pistol, please make sure it is a modern high capacity weapon with a couple of spare magazines in your belt. The Suarez International company gun, a Glock 17 with three magazines, yields a sum total of 52 rounds. Figure three rounds per man, and you can reduce an angry mob of panga swinging killers into a fleeing group of bloodied bad guys. Draw it and yell, "Get The F*** Back!" If they do, run away. If they do not, shoot the first man in the face. The rest will take care of itself.



It really is very simple. Might you get into trouble? Sure, but being in jail because you stabbed three guys on the street is far better than being in the hospital having holes drilled into your head to relieve the pressure on your brain while the female members of your party are getting HIV exams in the next room. The only way to defeat brutality is with extreme and greater brutality.



Keep that in mind, arm yourself properly and if it comes, be brutal.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
these teen thugs tick me off

"The only way to defeat brutality is with extreme and greater brutality."
And most people are far too civilized to explode a barrel of whup-a$$ in front of their attacker(s).
How many videos have we seen of victims - adults facing a teen mob - who try to plead or reason with the thugs? And the thugs think it's funny.

A serious, loud, assertive "leave me alone!" with direct eye contact is all the warning I'd give if caught in a situation like that. (And why wasn't I paying attention?)
They keep coming, I'll draw.
They have the option to leave or be stopped. I hope they leave.

Oh, they're only kids...
They probably don't mean to hurt anyone...

Bovine feces.

They're a mob. They're not acting individually, & they sure as Hades aren't thinking individually (or at all, in some cases).
And yes, they do mean to hurt people. So do whatever it takes to keep them from hurting you & yours. As long as you're alive, you did the right thing. You can go to therapy & second-guess yourself later.
 

BrewTownBagger

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
150
Location
Wauwatosa
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011/...to-defend.html

by Gabe Suarez

The Flash Mob Attack - How To Defend?



COLUMBIA, SC (WIS) - All eight suspects are in custody after a brutal attack in Five Points early Monday morning which left the teenage victim in critical condition, according to Columbia police.
CHICAGO, IL (WLS) -- The recent series of mob-style attacks on Chicago's Near North Side mark the first major hurdles facing Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Chicago's new police superintendent Garry McCarthy. The latest attack happened Tuesday night. A witness tells WGN 15-20 teens beat and robbed two people at Chicago and Wabash
AKRON, OH -- Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.
NO. VIRGINIA -- Three people were beaten by mobs in Northern Virginia in two separate incidents that occurred within five minutes of each other on Saturday night, authorities said.


These events have consumed the discussion at most self-defense focused websites in the last few weeks. Accompanying the discussion is the usual hand wringing regarding what to do if one is beset by a gang of thugs bent on your destruction. Well, I have my views on this which will no doubt shock the senses of the Doodley Doo Rights of the gun world.



First, this was not some group of young teenaged honor students. In all cases it was a group of urban thugs. Second, they were not there to practice for their debate on the ills of capitalism. Third, they understand only one thing...violence. So understand who they are and be ready to speak their language.



1). Don't go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things. Simple but often ignored. Listen, we do not live in a fair world where everyone respects everyone else. Nor where everyone gets along. You may in fact be totally color-blind in a socio-ethnic sort of way, but not everyone is. So even if your liberal sociology professor thinks it is a cool thing to take a stroll at midnight through a ethnically homogenous part of town (different ethnicity that you), it is still a stupid idea.






2). Always have a method to defend yourself. Even if it is not socially acceptable, or in line with the rules of the day, having some sort of weapon is essential. Right about now, some of the Doodley Doo Rights are screaming that I am telling people to violate the law. Well, go and google these stories. Look at the faces of the victims...specially the one on life support right now. Put yourself in their shoes. Your choice is to arm yourself in violation of the rules, or to take the raping, beating and robbery? What would you choose?



3). Avoid if you can. If you are standing around and see a group of twenty young urban thugs about two blocks away yelling, "kill whitey", and looking at your reflection in the store window, realize that you have not been in the sun in a while, here is my advice - "RUN". If it looks like trouble, it probably is. The gang is not there to debate the effects of american corporate expansion on the development of the urban neighborhoods with you.



4). If you cannot avoid, attack...brutally and viciously. This is not the time to worry about some goofball fear monger's articles about being sued, nor about anything of the sort. It is time to deploy your weapons and attack the leaders. Listen folks, there is disparity of force by the sheer number against you and the knowledge you have based on these prior flash mob events.



If you have limited yourself by the rules and only have a knife, be certain you know how to use it. Make it big enough that it will cause extreme pain and bleeding when you stab the attacker. This is not the place for a legally carried tomato peeler that is two inches or less. You need a fixed or folding knife that is at least 4 inches long.



When the time comes, do not flash the knife like you are some crocodile dundee type guy ("that's not a knife"). Stab the first man deep and hard in his face and move to the next guy and repeat the exercise. Do the same to anyone within reach. When their buddies reel back, screaming in horror and pain, holding their bloodied faces with eyeballs hanging out, it will create hesitation. Use that time to disengage.



If you have a pistol, please make sure it is a modern high capacity weapon with a couple of spare magazines in your belt. The Suarez International company gun, a Glock 17 with three magazines, yields a sum total of 52 rounds. Figure three rounds per man, and you can reduce an angry mob of panga swinging killers into a fleeing group of bloodied bad guys. Draw it and yell, "Get The F*** Back!" If they do, run away. If they do not, shoot the first man in the face. The rest will take care of itself.



It really is very simple. Might you get into trouble? Sure, but being in jail because you stabbed three guys on the street is far better than being in the hospital having holes drilled into your head to relieve the pressure on your brain while the female members of your party are getting HIV exams in the next room. The only way to defeat brutality is with extreme and greater brutality.



Keep that in mind, arm yourself properly and if it comes, be brutal.

Well Said!
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011/...to-defend.htmlKeep that in mind, arm yourself properly and if it comes, be brutal.

It's called SHOCK AND AWE just don't use the PC castrated version they sold as shock and awe when we went into Iraq this last time. That was hardly shocking and certainly not awe inspiring.

You hit them with no warning, fast, hard, and repeatedly until they either 1) no longer have the desire or ability to attack or 2) retreat fully.

In the civillian world, before you strike, you damn well better be in fear of death or great bodily injury.
 

1FASTC4

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
505
Location
Tomahawk
You are all racists for bringing this up. It doesn't matter if none of you mentioned race. Just ask the government.

These sort of things are happening all over with increasing frequency, but the govt is sweeping it under the rug... it's not politically correct to address them. Here's the short version of the govt's position: Basically, it's ok to kill whitey.
 

Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
"The only way to defeat brutality is with extreme and greater brutality."
And most people are far too civilized to explode a barrel of whup-a$$ in front of their attacker(s).
How many videos have we seen of victims - adults facing a teen mob - who try to plead or reason with the thugs? And the thugs think it's funny.

A serious, loud, assertive "leave me alone!" with direct eye contact is all the warning I'd give if caught in a situation like that. (And why wasn't I paying attention?)
They keep coming, I'll draw.
They have the option to leave or be stopped. I hope they leave.

Oh, they're only kids...
They probably don't mean to hurt anyone...

Bovine feces.

They're a mob. They're not acting individually, & they sure as Hades aren't thinking individually (or at all, in some cases).
And yes, they do mean to hurt people. So do whatever it takes to keep them from hurting you & yours. As long as you're alive, you did the right thing. You can go to therapy & second-guess yourself later.

Signature Worthy...

Now thats funny...


Outddoesman1
 

HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol


A serious, loud, assertive "leave me alone!" with direct eye contact is all the warning I'd give if caught in a situation like that. (And why wasn't I paying attention?)



As the survivor of several mob attacks, the most brutal being an ambush by a mob of Illinois Nazis, I can say with absolute certainty if you even think about trying that it is already way too late for you.

The only way to survive is to identify the situation and run. If you can't run you better have numbers who will back you up, disarm the mob and use their weapons against them. Just remember that good guys will be mistaken for bad guys in the melee and will be hit. If you are alone and have a firearm you had better identify the mob from a block away and dissuade them long before they reach you. And that's the rub. Are they a mob from a block away? Or just a group of teens walking down the sidewalk? If they ambush you, you are screwed.
 

1FASTC4

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
505
Location
Tomahawk
As the survivor of several mob attacks, the most brutal being an ambush by a mob of Illinois Nazis, I can say with absolute certainty if you even think about trying that it is already way too late for you.

The only way to survive is to identify the situation and run. If you can't run you better have numbers who will back you up, disarm the mob and use their weapons against them. Just remember that good guys will be mistaken for bad guys in the melee and will be hit. If you are alone and have a firearm you had better identify the mob from a block away and dissuade them long before they reach you. And that's the rub. Are they a mob from a block away? Or just a group of teens walking down the sidewalk? If they ambush you, you are screwed.

Hmm . I'm glad I have no reason or desire to go to any place where large groups of black people gather. Milwaukee is a real **** hole and has been for a long time. Wausau is about as far South as you'll find me in Wisconsin.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
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Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Hmm . I'm glad I have no reason or desire to go to any place where large groups of black people gather. Milwaukee is a real **** hole and has been for a long time. Wausau is about as far South as you'll find me in Wisconsin.



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NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!
 

GLOCK21GB

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--Moderator Statement--


NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

oh no..IFAST..you angered the Political correctness police... be careful there are libs amongst us. God forbid we hurt an entire "Groups" feelings.... oh, no..that would be aweful

must not have been too bad...he did not delete your post...
 
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