Question about Highland Games in Livonia

Mr. Harris,

I will see that your message be passed along to Councilman Swartz.

Preliminary investigation into the complaint regarding the denial of a citizen to open carry a weapon at the Highland Games has been completed. The person insisting that the weapon be put away was the proprietor running the Highland Games. He is/was under the belief that he could ban firearms from his event. That is an interesting concept that we have not encountered before. I have asked our City Attorney to research and issue an opinion. If it turns out that they are wrong in their belief I will see that they are educated about the law to avoid a repeat occurrence of this type of incidence.

The of the goal of the Livonia Police Department to see that all citizens freely exercise their Constitutional Rights.

Thank you bringing this matter to my attention.

Very Truly Yours,

Robert Stevenson
Chief of Police


Chief Stevenson, Thank you very much for your help in both these matters. I look forward to your city attorney's opinion. I do not expect it to differ much from Royal Oak, Detroit or Muskegon County. In each instance they agreed firearms cannot be banned on public property even if the property is rented by a private organization.

Thank you very much.

Rob Harris
Vice President
Michigan Open Carry Inc.

Great Job Rob!

I would point Livonia in the direction of "regulate in any other manner" clause of MCL 123.1102 as to enter a contract with a group that will use public property and ban firearms would be a violation of that clause. In addition, Livonia seems to require a "Use License" for such events, which would mean that a group can use the Public Property but does not obtain any Private Property rights for such.

Bittersweet victory. The scumbag is going to slide, but OC will likely remain intact.

stainless1911 said:

Bittersweet victory. The scumbag is going to slide, but OC will likely remain intact.

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Please expound on this post with some details...

PDinDetroit said:

Please expound on this post with some details...

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Please tell me this is sarcasm. I don't think that there us anything to be gained by participating in the same sort of behavior that we are criticising.

Found this on Conrad Schwartz bio page under community activities

Board of Directors - Arab American and Chaldean Council

Maybe some he wants us defenceless when his friends get their pilot license?

stainless1911 said:

Bittersweet victory. The scumbag is going to slide, but OC will likely remain intact.

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There is no victory until their attorney issues his opinion agreeing with our position.

Cool the Chief's response pretty much takes away most concerns had about him.

WilDChilD said:

Found this on Conrad Schwartz bio page under community activities

Board of Directors - Arab American and Chaldean Council

Maybe some he wants us defenceless when his friends get their pilot license?

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This post is so out of bounds I don't even know what to say. I'm assuming it's 9/11 reference. Chaldean's are Catholic, by the way.

scot623 said:

There is no victory until their attorney issues his opinion agreeing with our position.

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True, but I am confident that we will come out on top. As far as the scumbag that threatened you, I doubt anything will be done about him.

DrTodd said:

Please tell me this is sarcasm. I don't think that there us anything to be gained by participating in the same sort of behavior that we are criticising.

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I simply did not know what he meant and was asking for clarification...

As for the Councilman (scumbag as Stainless1911 referred to), I fully support Rob's decisions to either seek charges or not. IMO, I believe it is better to handle the issue with the Police Chief as was currently done and not seek charges. If you remember the AB&E issue, there was a commissioner there that was "full of blather". He was mostly ignored, except when bordering on illegal actions which were handled quietly and were of no further consequence.

I'd probably change my tune too if I got a call from the Chief of Police. Threats are no joke...

Mr. Harris, after reflecting on this matter these past few days, and on my comments to you, I have concluded that I was out-of-line and very harsh. Please accept my personal apology for those remarks in my past e-mails to you.

Sincerely Conrad Schwartz

Good enough, thats more than some people would do.

scot623 said:

I'd probably change my tune too if I got a call from the Chief of Police. Threats are no joke...

Mr. Harris, after reflecting on this matter these past few days, and on my comments to you, I have concluded that I was out-of-line and very harsh. Please accept my personal apology for those remarks in my past e-mails to you.

Sincerely Conrad Schwartz

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Hats off to him for this.

I'm not surprised by the Chief's response, but I'm still glad for it. The officer that talked to me was very polite and seemed well-informed about OC. I think the officers had orders to listen to the St Andrew's folks and like me, the officers aren't lawyers, so they just did their best in what must have been for them, an awkward situation.

It was the St. Andrew's president that pissed me off. NO REFUNDS!!!

scot623 said:

I'd probably change my tune too if I got a call from the Chief of Police. Threats are no joke...

Mr. Harris, after reflecting on this matter these past few days, and on my comments to you, I have concluded that I was out-of-line and very harsh. Please accept my personal apology for those remarks in my past e-mails to you.

Sincerely Conrad Schwartz

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And the retributions begin???? http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-just-pulled-me-over-for-OC-ing-on-motorcycle

Rob if true you may want to talk with the chief and ask him if this is a belief and a policy that a gun in a visible holster is concealed????

Venator said:

And the retributions begin???? http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-just-pulled-me-over-for-OC-ing-on-motorcycle

Rob if true you may want to talk with the chief and ask him if this is a belief and a policy that a gun in a visible holster is concealed????

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Already on it. See thread for update.

scot623 said:

Already on it. See thread for update.

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Well done.

Chief Stevenson, Once again, thank you for *your quick response. The stop occurred on Hines drive and Newburgh Rd at 4:30 pm yesterday. *

Not to create any confusion by discussing two incidents in one email, but I did contact the gentleman stopped at the Highland Games. He confirmed the first person heard talking to him on the audio link I sent you was in fact a Livonia Police officer. The officer was the first person to initiate contact. *After the pause, you then hear the official from the Highland Games speaking to him.

Thanks again for your help in these matters. *


Rob Harris


Mr. Harris,

That is correct. However, *our Officer was responding to their request (Highland Games) for assistance and that is a Highland Games official insisting that he leave.*

I do not anticipate a repeat of this situation as both our Officers and the Highland Game officials will have the opinion of the City Attorney shortly.*

Very Truly Yours,

Robert Stevenson

Sent from my iPhone*

So far I am very impressed with the level of professionalism shown by Chief Stevenson. He is to be commended.

Bronson