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Thread: Komo News - Citizen takes down gunman after shooting in Skyway

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    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    Komo News - Citizen takes down gunman after shooting in Skyway

    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/127082543.html

    SKYWAY, Wash. -- Police say an armed citizen helped arrest a man who shot another man late Saturday in the Skyway neighborhood south of Seattle.

    King County sheriff's Sgt. John Urquhart said the victim was shot just before 9 p.m. during an argument in the parking lot of the US Bank branch at 12610 76th Avenue South.

    A man not involved in the dispute who was using the ATM at the bank pulled out his own gun and pointed it at the shooter, Urquhart said.

    Urquhart said the man is licensed to carry the weapon and also had handcuffs with him, although he is not a member of law enforcement.

    By the time police arrived, the Good Samaritan already had the suspected shooter cuffed and disarmed.

    "That's very unusual, very surprising, and not recommended," Urquhart said of the citizen who intervened. "This guy did a great job, but we don't recommend doing that. You certainly do that at your own risk."

    The man who was shot was taken to Harborview Medical Center with serious injuries, but he is expected to survive.

    Investigators are looking into whether a dispute over drugs may have prompted the shooting.

  2. #2
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    ummm,,,,

    Boo Boo?
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Cool. Glad he was able to defend himself and get the guy. May have been better not to intervene. Wierd that he was carrying handcuffs. I have met a lot of OCers, none of them carry handcuffs.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Not recommended...
    ...because everyone will realize they aren't as needed as they say they are?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Cool. Glad he was able to defend himself and get the guy. May have been better not to intervene. Wierd that he was carrying handcuffs. I have met a lot of OCers, none of them carry handcuffs.
    You haven't been reading this forum very long then. Some carry cuff's, OC spray, a Taser, Asp, etc.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    There was someone, do not remember his nickname or name right now but he was trying to form a group to do neighborhood walks around that area. He was ex military police and carried cuffs if I remember correctly and the last we heard from him is when it was walking down rainier, dressed in black and something about a thigh rig. Wonder if it was him?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    You haven't been reading this forum very long then. Some carry cuff's, OC spray, a Taser, Asp, etc.
    Yep, the whole Bat Belt with all the bells and whistles...

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    There was someone, do not remember his nickname or name right now but he was trying to form a group to do neighborhood walks around that area. He was ex military police and carried cuffs if I remember correctly and the last we heard from him is when it was walking down rainier, dressed in black and something about a thigh rig. Wonder if it was him?
    Redboneshadow?
    Live Free or Die!

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    Thumbs up

    Not recommended...
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    ...because everyone will realize they aren't as needed as they say they are?
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    ...because everyone will realize they aren't as needed as they say they are?
    No, because without proper raining in how to apply them, cuffs can become a weapon to be used against you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    No, because without proper raining in how to apply them, cuffs can become a weapon to be used against you.
    Cops say the same thing whether or not handcuffs are used: "mere serfs should not encroach upon our monopoly of force."

    I could say the same thing about a Mag-Lite or any other piece of equipment on a cop's belt; it is possible for an adversary to gain control of it and use it as a weapon against the owner. However, I put far more stock in a private citizen taking responsibility for his own safety and training than a police officer who knows he can shoot with relative impunity and that he always has the option to call in more fellow members of his armed gang for backup.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    I have an aversion to touching any stranger; I’m certainly not going to start groping some druggie/drunk/diseased person to get handcuffs on them. No thanks, I’ll keep my distance.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Thought briefly about getting some handcuff zip ties, but too much bother.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Unless an OCer is a cop they should not carry cuffs or those tacky CC badges. A very good way to get a felony impersonating charge. The purpose of OC and CC is personal self defense not making arrests, unless directed to do so by an LE. Besides as a former LEO cuffing suspects is very dangerous, it entails getting in close contact and without training. Some states do not even have previsions for citizen arrests. That said common items like zip ties or duct tape are handy to have for non restraint purposes in case of vehicle repairs. I guess in a pinch they could also be used for restraint, again though IMO it is taking on more than should be done by a citizen. The most important tool is a recording device to take details to help law enforcement, such as pen and pad, or camera phone, or pocket recorder.

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    No, because without proper raining in how to apply them, cuffs can become a weapon to be used against you.
    I wasn't talking about the cuffs and I don't thing Urqhart was either.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    I honestly have no intentions of getting that close to someone who is willing to harm people. That's why I carry a gun... So I don't let them get that close to me. To cuff him he had to probably reholster and HOPE this guy didn't beat the crap out of him. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not really a "fighter." I want as much distance as I can get.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    The old handcuff and zip tie issue at hand yet again.
    Handcuffs can and do work well on both the bad guys as well as the good guys!
    Anytime you come in physical contact an added of danger is added and unless you know with out a doubt you are able to physically subdue the perp, one is making a dangerous choice that could cost you your life.

    Zip Ties is one the largest liabilities to you health as you can get, you loose control of it and it is placed around your neck and tighten, 7 to 8 seconds you're dead.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    This is fitting.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    That guy Workman weighs in

    Armed citizen intervention in Skyway shooting ignites CCW debate

    The successful intervention of an armed citizen in a Skyway shooting Saturday night is garnering considerable public reaction, with the majority opinion clearly supportive of the citizen who not only held the perpetrator at gunpoint, but also handcuffed him before King County Sheriff’s deputies arrived.

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...tes-ccw-debate

  20. #20
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Those darn concealed carriers anyways! Guess it was not Redboneshadow unless he has changed his mode of carry.
    We're told a citizen who was driving by the scene was able to apprehend the suspect. Sgt. John Urqhart of the King County Sheriff's Office tells us that the citizen was legally carrying a concealed weapon as well as handcuffs and was in those handcuffs until police arrived.
    full story
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Talking

    Sgt. John Urqhart of the King County Sheriff's Office tells us that the citizen was legally carrying a concealed weapon as well as handcuffs and was in those handcuffs until police arrived.
    I guess a journalism degree isn't what it used to be...

  22. #22
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    So whats with the handcuff deal, I thought you had to have a license or training or something and could be imprisoned for imprisonment?
    Last edited by amzbrady; 08-07-2011 at 01:33 PM.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    So whats with the handcuff deal, I thought you had to have a license or training or something and could be imprisoned for imprisonment?
    I'm not aware of any state laws that regulate the possession or carrying of handcuffs. I also don't believe that the mere possession of handcuffs alone would pass muster for an arrest for impersonation (although I would never combine with any sort of badge - probably wouldn't even carry the handcuffs in plain view to be honest). I'm not even sure that unlawful imprisonment or citizens' arrest statutes would apply given that it began as a genuine self-defense scenario. After all, isn't holding someone at gunpoint until police arrive just as much or more of an arrest or imprisonment?

    Personally, the handcuff game isn't for me because as others have said, it is more dangerous to have to reholster your weapon and then attempt physical control. There is a reason that a single cop alone will rarely attempt to handcuff a dangerous suspect - they almost always hold them at draw and wait for backup.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    I guess a journalism degree isn't what it used to be...
    Good catch lol.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  25. #25
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    maybe we'll get lucky and there will be an interview on the news with the guy that caught the bad guy.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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