My IRAs

Brass Magnet said:

You missed why I said speculators are actually a good thing. Besides, speculators will always exist no matter what you do, so you've got to learn to live with it either way. They can always specualte on physical vs. paper. If you outlaw paper speculating then you are just making it so you and I can't speculate but the rich guys still can.

I'm not saying I like those computer systems you are posting about however; you can get a hold of them too if you'd like to use them.

There is no such thing as government intervention absent cronyism. It's been proven by history to be completely impossible. That's why you can't have government intervention in a free market.

A true free market is dictated by you and I as the demanders. Sure, the government should be there to make sure we aren't defrauded and to supply arbitration through the courts so you and I can sue the pants of corporations and individuals who abuse us but any more than that breeds corruption. We should be in control and not the government.

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If that is the case of the Government not capable of being absent cronyism, than, my friend, no matter who is elected to office, they are all there because of it, whether it be a tea party candidate, democrat, or republican candidate. Not all Government is bad Government. We have Government for a reason, it has merely been taken over by these cockroaches. The free market, meaning, a market free of regulation is a market that will run amok. There must be regulation, it's merely a matter of degrees that the discussion should be about.

The latter portion of your response indicates that you are for regulation. If that's the case, why would you want the Government to regulate any thing? By Government regulation you have no free-market. Also, if any Government involvement is a bad thing, and cronyism is corrupting our Government then why would you be interested at all in any form of regulation?

I see the Fed just open his mouth again and I lost more of my IRA's.

Beretta92FSLady said:

If that is the case of the Government not capable of being absent cronyism, than, my friend, no matter who is elected to office, they are all there because of it, whether it be a tea party candidate, democrat, or republican candidate. Not all Government is bad Government. We have Government for a reason, it has merely been taken over by these cockroaches. The free market, meaning, a market free of regulation is a market that will run amok. There must be regulation, it's merely a matter of degrees that the discussion should be about.

The latter portion of your response indicates that you are for regulation. If that's the case, why would you want the Government to regulate any thing? By Government regulation you have no free-market. Also, if any Government involvement is a bad thing, and cronyism is corrupting our Government then why would you be interested at all in any form of regulation?

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Sure, there will always be some degree of cronyism, but if government is properly restrained the damage it can do is thus restrained as well. I agree that not all government is necessarily bad government but more government equals worse government. In other words, if you want to get rid of these "cockroaches" you must not foster an environment in which they can perpetuate. That environment is undoubtedly big government.

A true free market is regulated by the people and the rights of the people. Government should be there to provide a system with which the people can redress grievances. Laws against fraud or against violating peoples rights are right and proper. It's prior restraint and regulations by comitee and regulatory agencies that are a problem. Only the people through congress should be able to write laws and even then prior restraint is wrong.

jbone said:

I see the Fed just open his mouth again and I lost more of my IRA's.

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Do you not read the 'news'?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/business/global/daily-stock-market-activity.html?_r=1&hp

"The three main indexes, for example, gyrated wildly in the half-hour after a Federal Reserve announcement that included no new steps to pare interest rates further or to foster economic growth, shedding gains, plunging sharply and recovering their losses. "

It appears the market is responding to every little creek, and ping, in short, the market is freaked the hell out. It appears that the market is up today, some 429 points. Is it the result of the FED's? Is it the result of optimism in the market? Who knows. I see the market sinking, we are trending down, obviously.

Brass Magnet said:

Sure, there will always be some degree of cronyism, but if government is properly restrained the damage it can do is thus restrained as well. I agree that not all government is necessarily bad government but more government equals worse government. In other words, if you want to get rid of these "cockroaches" you must not foster an environment in which they can perpetuate. That environment is undoubtedly big government.

A true free market is regulated by the people and the rights of the people. Government should be there to provide a system with which the people can redress grievances. Laws against fraud or against violating peoples rights are right and proper. It's prior restraint and regulations by comitee and regulatory agencies that are a problem. Only the people through congress should be able to write laws and even then prior restraint is wrong.

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Part of the issue with regulation, and it not working is because the regulation that is in place is essencially rendered tooth-less, even with zero bite. The politicians cut funds off, and get rid of regulators to oversea what it is that is, and should be regulated. The failure is not due to the regulation itself, it is due to the politicians, pushed by lobbyists, to suffocate the funds that would keep regulators in the numbers necessary to make sure that all of these wall street types, and bankers are obeying the laws.

Beretta92FSLady said:

Part of the issue with regulation, and it not working is because the regulation that is in place is essencially rendered tooth-less, even with zero bite. The politicians cut funds off, and get rid of regulators to oversea what it is that is, and should be regulated. The failure is not due to the regulation itself, it is due to the politicians, pushed by lobbyists, to suffocate the funds that would keep regulators in the numbers necessary to make sure that all of these wall street types, and bankers are obeying the laws.

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Ah, but even if you give the regulation teeth that regulation will still be aimed to the benifit of the cronys or at the pol's political enemies. WE should have the teeth! Tort law.

You kind of sound like Krugman right now..."Stimulus didn't work? Then its not big enough. Let's print money until it works!"

We've tried big government, making it bigger and adding teeth to more regulation will just further divide the elite and us. How about we try it the other way for a while?

This may be a time saver for you.....You will never get me to agree that more government is the answer. I've explored my politics for a long time and arrived at the conclusion that I'm not a statist.

The stock market is reacting to the Fed's statement....

....that interest rates will stay low for two more years. This is essentially a forecast for zero or negative economic growth.

Market is tanking so far this morning. I put on more shorts of the financial sector into the rally late yesterday. Getting ready to trade them out already. Market down 200+ at the open here.

Beretta92FSLady said:

75% chance we double-dip (assuming we actually came out of the so-called Great Recession), IMO. A number of economists have stated the chances are around 40%. Of course, they wouldn't want to spook investers. Leading up to the Great Depression economists, and politicians were hell-bent on telling the public everything is A-OK. Let's get real here people, use that noodle in your head, and realize it is a scam. We aren't banbkrupt, there is a consolidation of power (money) taking place, and is being led by both sides. All you 401K'rs, be prepared to accept the consequences of putting your retirement in the hands of bankers who skeem every day to deplete your contribution to your retirement.

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"Double dip"? 25 million un or under-employed have never seen any change. Wall Street's fundamentals should show support at 12,500 based on equity and earnings. This is a self fulfilling prophecy that feeds itself. It is a buying opportunity for those with the cash or cajones, but means nothing to those who continue to suffer. Jobs are what is needed. The messiah can't get that into his brainless head. He is the president. He has the duty to lead. He has done jack ****. Plenty of blame to go around, I agree, but as Truman said "the buck stops here." He looked and spoke like a halfwit the other night. "Change you can believe in." BS.

Senator Marco Rubio of FL said it best in comments the last week or so.

"We don't need more taxes, we need more taxpayers. "

Unless he was talking about importing more illegals.

Over 40 million people on foodstamps now, 1/7 of the population.

Some water, food, cash, precious metals, medical supplies, ammo, etc should be stockpiled to the best of your ability.

Brass Magnet said:

Ah, but even if you give the regulation teeth that regulation will still be aimed to the benifit of the cronys or at the pol's political enemies. WE should have the teeth! Tort law.

You kind of sound like Krugman right now..."Stimulus didn't work? Then its not big enough. Let's print money until it works!"

We've tried big government, making it bigger and adding teeth to more regulation will just further divide the elite and us. How about we try it the other way for a while?

This may be a time saver for you.....You will never get me to agree that more government is the answer. I've explored my politics for a long time and arrived at the conclusion that I'm not a statist.

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Tax breaks were extended as the Republicans argued for getting the economy back on track - Republicans, where are all the jobs these tax breaks for the rich were purported to bring the men, and women who actually work their a$$ of everyday to make ends meet?

In response to the person below you, the FED's stated without directly stating, "we are F-d, royally." And I agree. BTW, markets down 520 today. I hope all of you on here have your life preservers on, and are holding tight.

VW_Factor said:

I removed them from my Credit Union. Its too much of a pain in my butt to take almost two hours out of my day to physically drive to the branch to transfer funds. My wife and I's checking is there and we do enjoy the bank. Their online experience is "lacking". In the beginning I was told that I could transfer money via their website from checking, into any of my other accounts including my IRA.

After enough time of NOT being able to do any of that, I removed all my IRAs yesterday and now I am looking for a place to put them.

eTrade? State Farm?

Suggestions?

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The first thing I'd suggest if your still monitoring this thread, is to talk to a certified tax accountant to see what penalties you've just incurred by personally taking possession of your IRA funds. You may be required to pay your current tax rate at the next filing, along with a 10% penalty depending on your age if your under 59.5.....so, good luck with that.

Other than that, I've been pressing my $ guy to get some skin in the game at these levels....he keeps telling me "don't try to be a hero today"....Europe is driving the bus right now and it has to play through.....we could see another 1,000 points down.

jt59 said:

The first thing I'd suggest if your still monitoring this thread, is to talk to a certified tax accountant to see what penalties you've just incurred by personally taking possession of your IRA funds. You may be required to pay your current tax rate at the next filing, along with a 10% penalty depending on your age if your under 59.5.....so, good luck with that.

Other than that, I've been pressing my $ guy to get some skin in the game at these levels....he keeps telling me "don't try to be a hero today"....Europe is driving the bus right now and it has to play through.....we could see another 1,000 points down.

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I guess I am lucky that my father is a CPA.

I will worry about such things when the time comes. Shopping other local CU's hoping to find one that has a good online banking interface.

Beretta92FSLady said:

Tax breaks were extended as the Republicans argued for getting the economy back on track - Republicans, where are all the jobs these tax breaks for the rich were purported to bring the men, and women who actually work their a$$ of everyday to make ends meet?

In response to the person below you, the FED's stated without directly stating, "we are F-d, royally." And I agree. BTW, markets down 520 today. I hope all of you on here have your life preservers on, and are holding tight.

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When the heck did Republicans enter the conversation? Me thinks you spend too much time arguing with the Neocons and rely on R's as a scapegoat thinking that I am one.

Moving on to the class warfare....

Firstly, if you steal from the rich it will never be enough to fix the debt, there aren't enough of them unless you take pretty much all of their money and bust them down to upper middle class. Yay, mass government wealth distribution! Oh, and when Obama is talking about the "rich" he means anyone making over 250,000 a year; BEFORE taxes. My friend makes over that but only has an actual pay rate of $10 an hour after all the expenses to run his FARM. That's right, these "rich" include LLC's and S corps that provide most of the jobs in this country.

Taxes as a form of wealth distribution are not only immoral but pass the buck onto every one of us including the very people among us screaming for Robin Hood. Remember when they raised the taxes on diesel fuel to keep gas down? You and I paid for it, not the businesses that run on it. Almost everything is transported with diesel, incuding our own kiesters on a plane.

The real facts of the matter are that if you tax the corporations or the rich that own them more it only amounts to a hidden tax on anyone that uses services or products provided by said corporation. See, trickle down economis works! LOL. Conversely, if you reduce the taxes on a corporation they may or may not pass those savings on. Most likely they won't but they almost surely will use some of that money to reinvest in themselves. In fact, they must reinvest to survive. This is a good thing for them, their employees, and their customers. I know these basic truths because I work for a multinational corporation and get to see capital expenditures.

Ask yourself which is more likely. Which do you trust the corporations to do. I think the answer is clear, they will look to their own interests.

We surely shouldn't subsidize them and give them money stolen from the American people but taxing them more only sends jobs to another country. And guess what? That money made over in other countries won't come back here to be reinvested because our government takes nearly 40% of it if the company brings it back. This is completely stupid. If you want to create jobs here, the first thing you do is get rid of taxes on money coming into our country. It's so fricken obvious that a child could figure it out but not some in our government.

I think my phone keyboard may be worn out now.....

P.S. No, I don't make even close to 6 figures..... :-(

Sorry for continuing the thread hijack VW.

BTW, He shouldn't incurr penalties if he's rolling his retirement account into another retirement account. Provisions are made for that just like if you switch employers. Also, there are retirement accounts that allow you to manage the money within yourself such as fidelity offers. You can manage it but the same rules apply for taking it out early. Managing the stocks and funds is not taking out the money. Its the same thing fund managers do.

The rich need to have the living piss taxed out of them, and apparently, recent polls seem to suggest that more Americans than not agree with me.

Back on topic, don't put all your eggs in one basket - everyone knows this!

Beretta92FSLady said:

The rich need to have the living piss taxed out of them, and apparently, recent polls seem to suggest that more Americans than not agree with me.

Back on topic, don't put all your eggs in one basket - everyone knows this!

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What is the problem with being good with money? Why should they be punished?

For example. My parents by government standards are considered "rich". They already pay a huge amount in taxes because of this.

In reality they are not rich. They do not struggle to make ends meet, however. They just like anyone else, must budget wisely otherwise, they'd be dipping into savings to put food on their table.

I find it hard to believe that there are a class of people that wish to punish those who have worked hard their entire lives to earn what they have, by taking it away more aggressively via taxes.. To give to those who have not worked as hard (to fund say welfare and the like).

Why is it that you feel this way?

VW_Factor said:

What is the problem with being good with money? Why should they be punished?

For example. My parents by government standards are considered "rich". They already pay a huge amount in taxes because of this.

In reality they are not rich. They do not struggle to make ends meet, however. They just like anyone else, must budget wisely otherwise, they'd be dipping into savings to put food on their table.

I find it hard to believe that there are a class of people that wish to punish those who have worked hard their entire lives to earn what they have, by taking it away more aggressively via taxes.. To give to those who have not worked as hard (to fund say welfare and the like).

Why is it that you feel this way?

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They are not just "good with money." Plus, I am talking about rich speculators who run up the market, then bet on the market collapsing. I am not talking about your mom, and dad, unless they make millions of dollars a year, then yes, they are rich, and should have the piss taxed out of them. I think that President Obama has set the bar right, 250,000 bucks a year, your pay higher taxes, and those below that should have tax breaks, and tax credits. Call it what you want, stealing, taking money that don't belong to you, punishment, whatever. The rich should bear the brunt of the financial burden considering the poor bear the brunt of the burden of being impoverished, and barely making ends meet.

I should add that your view that individuals on welfare don't work as hard as a bunch of rich elitists is a freaking joke. There are many working people that are also on welfare, and barely making ends meet. Obviously you have never met a poor person in your life.

Personally, I would never want to be rich, and when I owned my business I was considered rich, and should have payed higher taxes. The likes of Bill Gates, right down to President Obama's meager 4 million dollar net worth (relative to the rest of elitists in charge) should be taxed, nay, taxed the piss out of

Give me books, sturdy paper, G2 gel pens, and a nice plot of land to garden on, and I will have everything that I need.

Beretta92FSLady said:

The rich should bear the brunt of the financial burden considering the poor bear the brunt of the burden of being impoverished, and barely making ends meet.

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The only thing holding the "poor" back is themselves. Don't turn this into rich should support the poor.. If they want a good living, they can earn it just like everyone else. Like the guy here in town that came to the US about 15 years ago, with nothing. He now owns a mini mart here in town and does pretty well for himself.

The poor are poor because they chose to live that way. (excluding those who have legitimate health/handicap reasons).

What good reason should "rich" people have to support those who choose not to support themselves? Any one good reason?

Beretta92FSLady said:

Obviously you have never met a poor person in your life.

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I almost take offense to your ridiculous accusation and assumption.

What reason would you believe that I have never "met a poor person"? Ever cared to wonder if I was ever considered poor myself? Live on ramen for a few years, not being able to pay rent, electricity shut off now and again, no phone, no heat, and getting clothes from Goodwill, worried about scraping enough money together to keep a roof over your head. Then tell me what its like to be poor.

Beretta92FSLady said:

The rich need to have the living piss taxed out of them, and apparently, recent polls seem to suggest that more Americans than not agree with me.

Back on topic, don't put all your eggs in one basket - everyone knows this!

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I see. A point can't be refuted so it's a resort to ignorant partisan rhetoric.

Don't bother VW.

She's been drinking the kool-aid. Advocation of class warfare and wealth redistribution is just Liberal schadenfreude.

Brass Magnet said:

I see. A point can't be refuted so it's a resort to ignorant partisan rhetoric.

Don't bother VW.

She's been drinking the kool-aid. Advocation of class warfare and wealth redistribution is just Liberal schadenfreude.

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That's assuming you made a legitimate point that required refutation. How rhetoric of you to utilize German verbiage as a response. As if the implication isn't clear. You may as well say what's on the tip of your fingers, that I am some Nazi loving Socialist who's agenda it is to round everyone up into camps to be gassed...sound about right in your implication? Reads to me like you are more interested in rhetoric.

VW, I do acknowledge self-determinism does play a role in where an individual ends up socio-economically, although, there are other factors that play a much greater role in the outcome of the individual. You don't actually think that most of these economically well-off individuals grew up in poverty, do you? Although the majority of Americans are of the unfortunate belief that they can be rich if they chose to, and that they will one day be rich, how socio-economics plays out in reality is nothing like their self-imposed delusions. Call it social-engineering, call it what you want. It is apparent that the way socio-economics plays out needs to be controlled, and that control has to come from the Government. I am not talking about 'control' that are undermined by either party. I am talking about controls that are implemented for the sole purpose of assure that we as a society care for all individuals.