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Thread: Arrested for Open carrying - complete.

  1. #1
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    Arrested for Open carrying - complete.

    Hello everyone.

    First, let me say that I did not intend to mislead anyone with my previous posts, and that I had to be purposely vague in case I decided to sue the police department. This is my original notes and some things were expounded on in previous posts, and I'll not include them here at this time.



    At approximately 9:15pm, Sunday the 29th, I heard a gunshot directed at my house or a nearby house. I dived off my bed, hit the floor, and crawled to the front door after obtaining my handgun. I went to the front door cautiously and saw that my northern next door neighbor was outside and a guest at his house asked me if I had heard a shot.

    I said that I had, and the neighbor on the south side of me came to his door saying that someone had shot into his window. I looked at the window, and walked to the street to make sure no-one was waiting nearby. After seeing that it was clear, I holstered my firearm and went to the northern house to wait on police. I was speaking with my northern next-door neighbor about 50 feet from the crime scene. To be honest, I know most of the officers in my local PD, and really didn't think twice about disarming... I did however think that I should go to the house and put on a shirt to cover the gun... but I remembered a conversation that I had had with other officers just a few days previous and they had told me that I was not required to disarm on my own property when I had to call the police, that they were used to it and had to deal with it all the time. The previous incident was one where I had a burglar on my property and called 911 , then the county police dispatcher actually held officers off scene until I agreed to disarm, I refused at that time and said that I would disarm when they arrived. I spoke to the officers after they got there, and the officers I spoke with said that I was correct in that. I spoke to the police chief about the incident and he also agreed that I did not have to disarm on my own property even if police are present - but if they appeared on the property that I should holster and enter the house to let police search my property without confusing me for the criminal.

    Officers came to the CS (crime scene) house, and were looking at the hole in the glass, and I asked them if I was needed to file a report. One asked me what I had seen, and I told him that I had just heard the shot, he said I would not be needed, then he saw my weapon and asked if I had a concealed weapons permit and I told him that I did not need one to carry openly on my own property. He nodded and said to the other officer “he’s right, he doesn’t,” then they left and went into the CS house. I walked back to my neighbors fence. I had no contact with officers until about twenty minutes later when a supervisor car pulled up in front of my house. The officer got out of his vehicle and saw that I was carrying, and he walked into my yard. He said to the officer with him, "he has a gun." He approached me and asked me if I was armed, and I said that I was. He asked me to go into my house and disarm. I politely declined, stating that I am allowed to carry on my own property. I was very polite at all times to all of the police personnel. He asked me twice more to disarm, and on the third request, I told him that if he could give me a legal reason why I had to, I would comply. He said that he had his police officers in the area and some dumbass carrying a gun was not going to happen on his shift, that I was a threat to officer safety by carrying openly. I said I was not doing anything wrong. (I was thinking that if I were carrying concealed I would not have been having this conversation) And I have to admit that his attitude was a HUGE part of my decision to say no to his request. He was out of line, he knew it, and he knew that I knew it so he changed tacts...

    He became clearly upset and belligerent to me, and ordered me to enter my house and leave my front yard. Again, I felt that I was within my rights to refuse the order as I was not accused of a crime, and was not a subject of the investigation, was not at the crime scene or even near it, and was minding my own business on my own property, so I again stated that I was on my own property and not bothering anyone. The remainder of the officers were doing paperwork and most were inside the house that had been hit with the bullet, one car had started packing up by this time.

    I also felt that if there were more shots I would be left defenseless. I was confused as to the statutes that covered this kind of situation so I told the officer, “I will comply with all legal orders, and if you tell me what law I am violating, I will comply.” He said I was interfering with an investigation. It sounded odd to me that I was doing that when I had no contact and after already being cleared by other officers at the scene, but I was unsure so I agreed to comply with his request. I didn't want to make any sudden moves like turning away from the officers, so I started to tell the officer that I would comply, but as soon as I started to say so, he became VERY angry and approached me saying that I was under arrest. At no time did anyone draw their weapons on me. I held my hands out and he cuffed me while another officer disarmed me. He took me to his police cruiser with my arms held in front of me and he pulled down HARD while we were walking forcing me to stumble to keep up with him.

    When in the car, the officer came to the door and rolled the window down. He told me loudly that if I wanted to make trouble, he would take my guns, take my CCW license and never let me have it back, and take me to jail and keep me from ever having another gun again! He was so angry that his words were slurred! He said he would make me regret my attitude. He said he thought I was just a cocky homeowner that didn’t know when to quit. He said that his was a lawful order and even though I had not committed a crime, I was required to obey his orders. He said that he would arrest me on “interfering with an investigation,” and as many other charges as he could think of. He confiscated my sidearm and said that I could have it back if I went to the police station and spoke to the chief on Monday, then kind of laughed and said, well, Tuesday. The officer “read me the riot act,” about complying with police orders, and that I had no rights on my own property if he said I didn't. He referred to me as “You homeowners,” a couple of times in response to us standing up for ourselves. He said something like, "You homeowners think you can do anything, but you can only do what we tell you that you can do! When a police officer tells you to do something, that is what you do!"

    I have to admit I was more concerned with false charges and thousands in legal fees, so I agreed with the arresting officer, and said that I was wrong to not have gone into my house when he told me to ( was still not sure if I was right or wrong about that one, but I was 100% sure I was within my rights about carrying). He did not order any of the neighbors to enter their homes, only me, and only because I was openly armed. I agreed with what he demanded that I agree with, and I was released from custody. While in the car talking to him, it was clear that he was not interested in the law, just in making me feel like a worm for not obeying his orders and was teaching me a lesson for standing up for my rights.

    I also have to admit that this is an isolated incident, and had no desire to make it into more than it was as it could adversely affect me and the police department – and with crime the way it is, I need them. I felt that I had no choice but to “Roll over and play dead,” to diffuse the situation.

    The officer did not feel that I had committed a criminal offense, was committing a criminal offense, and the investigation had nothing to do with my property or was being conducted on my property and he admitted that on site. He was angry that I was armed, and that was all. The office simply saw that I was exercising a right that he clearly disagreed with (and said so at a later date) and approached me to terminate my right. He had no legal right to detain, stop, or frisk me (and didn’t) he simply disarmed me, and placed me under arrest. He also refused to file charges, but took my property to, as he said it, “teach me a lesson.”

    The officer had no legal reason to be on my property. I was not hostile, was not angry, and was not around/ communicating with the other officers.

    I am very angry at the why I was attacked, arrested, put into a car, disarmed and had my property taken away from me. I had someone attempt to break into my house not a week before and was carrying and had carried openly on my property since then for protection.


    I got the response from the investigation a few minutes ago. The official response was in essence this...

    I had the right to carry openly on my property.

    While I was not part of the crime scene, nor was I a suspect in the shooting, the officer felt it his duty to request that I secure my weapon until the investigation was complete due to him being nervous that I was armed.

    I did not have a legal obligation to comply with that request (but the police department has asked if I would, in the future, comply anyway out of respect for the officers even if I was not legally required to do so.)

    I knew that the police department would not admit wrongdoing in a letter, and understand that. I think I got just about as much as they could have legally given me, and thank them for that. My department is really composed of a bunch of really great officers (mostly), and the police chief is exceptional.

    Then the one line that really made me smile...

    "On a positive note, we will use this unfortunate event to address the issue of law enforcement encounters with citizens lawfully possessing firearms."

    So I got exactly what I was seeking. This will benefit everyone in the future, both the citizens and the police.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Well, glad it ended the way you wanted it to. Sounds like a rather ridiculous situation to me. Next time if they ask you to put your gun away, I would not. Let them push the issue and pay the consequences later in court.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  3. #3
    Regular Member Savage206's Avatar
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    keep a recorder on you in the future to get these encounters on tape. It's funny how quickly some bad situations can be corrected when you have actual physical documentation of the encounter.....

    Glad it all worked out though. Perhaps also carry a pamphlet on you in the future so as to educate the misinformed officer.
    Last edited by Savage206; 08-08-2011 at 07:52 PM.

  4. #4
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    Hope it all works out.

    For the recorder. For the millionth time. Not legal in Florida. 2-party consent required. Consent being defined as the other party says YES after you've asked them if you can record. And yes that-currently- applies to public officials acting in an official capacity. Florida is not Maryland, Ky, or any number of other states where that might otherwise be the case. Folks taking such advice here could face charges for that, even if they get off of the weapon's charges.

  5. #5
    Regular Member maps761's Avatar
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    See attachment

    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Hope it all works out.

    For the recorder. For the millionth time. Not legal in Florida. 2-party consent required. Consent being defined as the other party says YES after you've asked them if you can record. And yes that-currently- applies to public officials acting in an official capacity. Florida is not Maryland, Ky, or any number of other states where that might otherwise be the case. Folks taking such advice here could face charges for that, even if they get off of the weapon's charges.
    Please read the attached PDF. The Police Legal Advisor for Tampa PD seems to have a different opinion.
    If this be Treason, then make the most of it. Patrick Henry, May 1765

  6. #6
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    Plz read the umpteen copies of the 2 cases currently underway in Fl., that contradict his opinion entirely, that have been posted more times than I can be bothered to look up.

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    I did not have a legal obligation to comply with that request (but the police department has asked if I would, in the future, comply anyway out of respect for the officers even if I was not legally required to do so.)
    Why would I have any (remaining) respect for officers who are so willing to violate my rights and the law?

  8. #8
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    ^^+10
    On 'respect' for the officers, give me a break (in this case). A LEO, around guns all the time is nervous when a citizen is carrying and known to him (after all they can look up his name from the address)? It's utter BS. It's clearly an entitlement thing. This Sergeant wants to be the one with the 'mojo', not you. He needs instruction in the law AND an anger management course. You don't fear a normal guy open carrying. You fear an unknown number of gang bangers CONCEALED carrying. What a nimrod that Sergeant was

    But, having said that, this illustrates why that in ANY instance where you are OC-ing, you have your recorder on and running.

    Remember a few years ago portable tape recorders required mini-cassettes and you couldn't upload the MP3 to anything. Now they are the size of a pack of gum and will allow uploading. So there's literally no excuse not to have one. If you KNOW you might encounter a LEO (as in this instance) you should go get your recorder and turn it on. Do not rely on memory to turn it on, you will forget under stress.

    $.02
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 08-11-2011 at 10:16 AM.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  9. #9
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    "(but the police department has asked if I would, in the future, comply anyway out of respect for the officers even if I was not legally required to do so.)"

    I would have a sit down with the Mayor and Police Chief about this; how can you respect the officers when they go on a POWER TRIP. Just because they are uncomfortable, just because they don't respect the US Constitution, and just because they feel they can intimidate a law abiding citizen on their own property does not give them GOD status.

    The officer lost control much like the officer in Ohio and we don't need police officers like this on the streets especially supervisors. This is more reminiscent of the German Caustopo tactics then free America. If you have that much crime I would suggest you get some video cameras mounted outside your house and put up a sign that "This house has active video security". Next time they come in your yard and get a God complex with you then you will have some documentation.

    I attended the academy and these are the egotistical, power tripping, want bees that need to be weeded out.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    ^^ Good point, but it's hard to do that without evidence (which a recorder would provide). Now it's just your word against the Sergeant and he will lie to save his neck.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  11. #11
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Amigo!
    What I really want to know is....
    Did you get your firewarm back?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  12. #12
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    For whatever it is worth~http://www.rcfp.org/taping/consent.html

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Amigo!
    What I really want to know is....
    Did you get your firewarm back?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Yes, with an apology from the police chief himself.

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