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Thread: detroit carjacker shot,crashes car and dies.

  1. #1
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    detroit carjacker shot,crashes car and dies.

    not details given for me to make a judgement on whether it should be justified or not yet,but here it is

    http://www.freep.com/article/2011080...069/1001/rss01

    A 19-year-old carjacking suspect died tonight in Detroit after the man whose car he stole fired a shot at him and he crashed the stolen vehicle into a tree.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  2. #2
    Regular Member Phxbluesman's Avatar
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    Don't shoot for property

    Shooting as the BG is leaving and no longer presenting an immediate threat seems like a tactic to avoid. IMNAL Each state has its own interpretation n of laws regarding the use of deadly force to stop a fleeing felon but I believe MI allows its use. . Although he may be off the hook criminally he may be on the hook for a civil suit . Either way the cost of a lawyer plus the time spent in custody and dealing with the aftermath especially if the BG dies is not worth it!

    My motto is don't shoot for property

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    There's plenty of situations to shoot a fleeing suspect. Would need more info on if the suspect was still somehow a threat and just how was he a threat.

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Very thin on details about the carjacking and the criminal history of the actors ... could have been a drug deal gone bad ... too many unknown details.

    What was funny was reading the comments ... evidently one of the relatives of the dead carjacker was posting for a while
    cheers - okboomer
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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Stephens said the man was taken into police custody. Detroit Police will submit an investigative report of the incident to the Wayne County Prosecutorís Office, which would determine if charges will be filed against the man.
    So the CCW holder was taken into custody....and they're going to determine whether charges will be filed.

    So.....under what charge was he arrested?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phxbluesman View Post
    Shooting as the BG is leaving and no longer presenting an immediate threat seems like a tactic to avoid. IMNAL Each state has its own interpretation n of laws regarding the use of deadly force to stop a fleeing felon but I believe MI allows its use. . Although he may be off the hook criminally he may be on the hook for a civil suit . Either way the cost of a lawyer plus the time spent in custody and dealing with the aftermath especially if the BG dies is not worth it!

    My motto is don't shoot for property


    This is what I believe is wrong with our judicial system. We are more afraid of a prosecutor then a criminal.
    This is on the same line of thinking that has gotten so many killed, just cooperate and give them what they want it's not worth it, then the victim is dead.
    So, we stand ideally by while someone takes your property, let the cops take care of it. Really, they can't even control the gang problems. Why do gangs do what they do, because we fear going to jail more than they do; why, because it's easier in this PC world for a prosecutor to prosecute the victim than the perpetrator.

    We've been brain washed thinking we can reason with bullies; have them over for supper and ask why they are bullying me rather than standing up to them and stopping them. We throw people in jail with the notion of rehabilitating them into society only to give them an education on how to commit more crimes. In the process of stopping a current crime we are also trying to prevent a future crime. I feared for the lives that maybe affected by this individual (it's only an example).

    I don't know about you but my property, my hard work to obtain the property , and the possibility of the perps harming someone else for his/her property is well worth trying to stop a theft. We've become a nation of "Paper Tigers".

    This is only MHO, I'm not advocating vigilanteism. I don't know the whole story and there is an on going investigation so I can't play arm chair quarterback.

    I understand that each situation is different but I would feel bad knowing that someone took my property and committed yet another crime with it knowing I could have stopped it.

    This is not to be taken as a personal attack against anyone.
    Last edited by Packer fan; 08-09-2011 at 04:30 PM. Reason: added a few thooughts

  7. #7
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    This is the reason you need to really know your state law, different states have different answers for if what was done was legal or not.

    What they don't tell us if there was someone else in the vehicle? (a wife/child/friend) if there was some very important physical material in the vehicle that could warrent such action in view of public safety? (say a cased full auto in the trunk?) They are not saying, so we wait.

    I would hope that he will not be charged with anything. In my state, he would be ok...but MI? I don't know if you can use deadly force to protect property in MI or not?

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    I could have sworn there was some law about necessary force during the commission of a felony... Anyone? Maybe that was citizen's arrest.

    Sent from my Evo using Tapatalk

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    Turns out the thug was shot while going for his gun, then drove off and crashed. Sounds like legitimate self defense.
    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...-20110809-wpms

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    Regular Member ColeMD17's Avatar
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    In Idaho, homicide is justifiable when "committed by any person... when resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person... [or] committed in defense of habitation, property, or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner to enter the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any person therein..."

    underlined: Our right to self-defense, note that there is no duty to retreat.
    Italicised Our defense of property and defense of others law
    bolded Our Castle Doctrine

    We should really change the state motto to "Don't try anything funny!" and the state nickname to the "Don't **** with me" state. It's a terrible place to be a violent criminal-as evidenced by our relatively low crime rates
    "Molon Labe."

    "People sleep peacably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

  11. #11
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    So why the comment (by reporter) "if his story checks out" vice the proper "police question and released the victim".

    And why the snippet of the dufus looking dude talking about protecting property versus self being cut in the way it was.

    The major thing I noticed however was that this citizens firearm was not in it's holster. I'm sure the government confiscated his property "as evidence". Good justification to the spouse for a second carry weapon!
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packer fan View Post
    We throw people in jail with the notion of rehabilitating them into society only to give them an education on how to commit more crimes.
    I really don't think our society tossed criminals in jail with the notion of rehabilitating them. They do it to take their freedom away for committing crimes. It is supposed to be a deterrent, not a treatment.

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColeMD17 View Post
    In Idaho, ...snipped the rest
    I thought this happened in Detroit, Michigan?

    I agree, W-T-P, very slanted and confusing about the story 'checking out' unless they are looking at Standberry for possible drug involvement?
    cheers - okboomer
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  14. #14
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    I really don't think our society tossed criminals in jail with the notion of rehabilitating them. They do it to take their freedom away for committing crimes. It is supposed to be a deterrent, not a treatment.
    Oh you should see the crap we're working with in this weeks "social problems" class. Angela Davis, 1970's terrorist (or at least criminal) provided firearms to a 17 y/o who then went into a courthouse and armed Davis's boyfriend and two other defendants, kidnapped the judge, prosecutor, and a juror....then got all of them killed in a shootout with police. Davis was indicted and ran, making the FBI 10 most wanted list, spent over a year in jail/prison, WALKED due to "public outcry". Member (high up) in the Communist Party USA and now a break away group of that organization, Marxist activist, radical feminist activist, member of the Black Panther party....

    She is now a "distinguised scholar" (cough choke gag) advocating for "the abolition of prisons" because they are "institutions of slavery" and that we should be educating rather than imprisoning these people. Because so many blacks are criminals (and therefore in prison) she also states that our prison system is racist and an institutional method of destroying the blacks.

    According to these academics, we need to help these poor victims of society instead of caging them like animals and that taking away their freedom is just slavery under an unjust criminal justice system.

    ARRRGH
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  15. #15
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    Oh you should see the crap we're working with in this weeks "social problems" class. Angela Davis, 1970's terrorist (or at least criminal) provided firearms to a 17 y/o who then went into a courthouse and armed Davis's boyfriend and two other defendants, kidnapped the judge, prosecutor, and a juror....then got all of them killed in a shootout with police. Davis was indicted and ran, making the FBI 10 most wanted list, spent over a year in jail/prison, WALKED due to "public outcry". Member (high up) in the Communist Party USA and now a break away group of that organization, Marxist activist, radical feminist activist, member of the Black Panther party....

    She is now a "distinguised scholar" (cough choke gag) advocating for "the abolition of prisons" because they are "institutions of slavery" and that we should be educating rather than imprisoning these people. Because so many blacks are criminals (and therefore in prison) she also states that our prison system is racist and an institutional method of destroying the blacks.

    According to these academics, we need to help these poor victims of society instead of caging them like animals and that taking away their freedom is just slavery under an unjust criminal justice system.

    ARRRGH
    Its not our fault that certain people don't understand the consequences of losing ones freedom. /facepalm

  16. #16
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    Its not our fault that certain people don't understand the consequences of losing ones freedom. /facepalm
    I neglected the OC connection in my previous post. It is connected to OC because, if radical activists like Davis get their way, the need to open carry (or at least CC) will vastly escalate.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Woody1960's Avatar
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    X 1 for the good guys.

  18. #18
    Regular Member ColeMD17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    I thought this happened in Detroit, Michigan?
    Yeah, I was just comparing.

    in hindsight, I guess that qualifies as O/T. sorry.
    "Molon Labe."

    "People sleep peacably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

  19. #19
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColeMD17 View Post
    Yeah, I was just comparing.

    in hindsight, I guess that qualifies as O/T. sorry.
    No need to apologize, I was just asking for clarification What applies in one state doesn't necessarily apply in another
    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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