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Thread: Arrested For Not Showing IDs In Ultra-Orthodox Jewish Town

  1. #1
    Regular Member oldbanger's Avatar
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    Arrested For Not Showing IDs In Ultra-Orthodox Jewish Town

    ...the officer tells them their being arrested for obstructing government administration, and explains that the "public safety director," Moses Witriol, had the right to forcibly detain Zwinck when he refused to show I.D...



    Last edited by oldbanger; 08-09-2011 at 11:35 AM. Reason: part 2

  2. #2
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    They were deemed "suspicious" for engaging in the criminal activity of photography.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    www.nycourts.gov/cji/2-PenalLaw/195/195.05.pdf

    The charge for which he was arrested doesn’t seem to fit the action.

    OBSTRUCTING GOVERNMENTAL ADMINISTRATION
    Second Degree
    (A Misdemeanor)
    PENAL LAW 195.05
    (Committed on or after November 1, 1998)
    The _____ count is Obstructing Governmental
    Administration in the Second Degree.
    Under our law, a person is guilty of Obstructing
    Governmental Administration in the Second Degree when that
    person intentionally obstructs, impairs or perverts the
    administration of law or other governmental function or prevents
    or attempts to prevent a public servant from performing an official
    function,

    Select appropriate alternative:

    by means of intimidation, physical force or interference, [or
    by means of any independently unlawful act]
    or
    by means of interfering, whether or not physical force is
    involved, with radio, telephone, television or other
    telecommunications systems owned or operated by the
    state, or a county, city, town, village, fire district or
    emergency medical service
    or
    by means of releasing a dangerous animal under
    circumstances evincing the actor`s intent that the animal
    obstruct governmental administration.
    Some of the terms used in this definition have their own
    special meaning in our law.

    I will now give you the meaning of the

    following terms: “public servant” and “intentionally.”
    1 See Penal Law §10.00(15). The term “public servant” includes a person
    who has been elected or designated to become a public servant.
    2 See Penal Law § 15.05(1).
    2
    PUBLIC SERVANT means any public officer or employee
    of the state or of any political subdivision thereof or of any
    governmental instrumentality within the state, or any person
    exercising the functions of any such public officer or employee.1
    Intent means conscious objective or purpose.2 Thus, a
    person INTENTIONALLY obstructs, impairs or perverts the
    administration of law or other governmental function or prevents
    or attempts to prevent a public servant from performing an official
    function when that person’s conscious objective or purpose is to
    do so.

    In order for you to find the defendant guilty of this crime, the

    People are required to prove, from all the evidence in the case,
    beyond a reasonable doubt, each of the following three elements:
    1. That on or about (date), in the county of (county) , the
    defendant, (defendant’s name) , obstructed, impaired or
    perverted the administration of law or other governmental
    function or prevented or attempted to prevent a public servant
    from performing an official function;
    2. That the defendant did so
    Select appropriate alternative:
    by means of intimidation, physical force or
    interference, [or by means of any independently
    unlawful act]; and
    or
    by means of interfering, whether or not physical force
    is involved, with radio, telephone, television or other
    3
    telecommunications systems owned or operated by
    the state, or a county, city, town, village, fire district or
    emergency medical service; and
    or
    by means of releasing a dangerous animal under
    circumstances evincing the actor`s intent that the
    animal obstruct governmental administration; and
    3. That the defendant did so intentionally.
    Therefore, if you find that the People have proven beyond
    a reasonable doubt each of those elements, you must find the
    defendant guilty of the crime of Obstructing Governmental
    Administration in the Second Degree as charged in the count.
    On the other hand, if you find that the People have not
    proven beyond a reasonable doubt any one or more of those
    elements, you must find the defendant not guilty of the crime of
    Obstructing Governmental Administration in the Second Degree
    as charged in the count.


  4. #4
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Even with NY as Stop and ID state, the law governing still doesn't match what the arrest was for, no unlawfull activiy was being conducted, or observed.

    http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LA...1+&TARGET=VIEW

    § 140.50 Temporary questioning of persons in public places; search for
    weapons.
    1. In addition to the authority provided by this article for making an
    arrest without a warrant, a police officer may stop a person in a public
    place located within the geographical area of such officer's employment
    when he reasonably suspects that such person is committing, has
    committed or is about to commit either (a) a felony or (b) a misdemeanor
    defined in the penal law, and may demand of him his name, address and an
    explanation of his conduct.
    2. Any person who is a peace officer and who provides security
    services for any court of the unified court system may stop a person in
    or about the courthouse to which he is assigned when he reasonably
    suspects that such person is committing, has committed or is about to
    commit either (a) a felony or (b) a misdemeanor defined in the penal
    law, and may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his
    conduct.
    3. When upon stopping a person under circumstances prescribed in
    subdivisions one and two a police officer or court officer, as the case
    may be, reasonably suspects that he is in danger of physical injury, he
    may search such person for a deadly weapon or any instrument, article or
    substance readily capable of causing serious physical injury and of a
    sort not ordinarily carried in public places by law-abiding persons. If
    he finds such a weapon or instrument, or any other property possession
    of which he reasonably believes may constitute the commission of a
    crime, he may take it and keep it until the completion of the
    questioning, at which time he shall either return it, if lawfully
    possessed, or arrest such person.
    4. In cities with a population of one million or more, information
    that establishes the personal identity of an individual who has been
    stopped, questioned and/or frisked by a police officer or peace officer,
    such as the name, address or social security number of such person,
    shall not be recorded in a computerized or electronic database if that
    individual is released without further legal action; provided, however,
    that this subdivision shall not prohibit police officers or peace
    officers from including in a computerized or electronic database generic
    characteristics of an individual, such as race and gender, who has been
    stopped, questioned and/or frisked by a police officer or peace officer.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Lokster's Avatar
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    Cop- "What's your name in Michigan?'

    Suspicious photographer- "Same as it is here."


  6. #6
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I doubt the officer even cares if the charge sticks or not.
    He isn't rated on how many arrests result in convictions, but he does get paid for his time in court and then he goes home and eats a nice steak dinner while you re-budget and see how long it will take to recoup the expenses you incurred defending yourself from a bogus charge.

    "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride," which I'm sure almost everyone has heard means that even if the officer cannot get a conviction he still gets the satisfaction of causing trouble and expense.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Where did this take place? Not much info aside from the NY State Police being called for some reason.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Where did this take place? Not much info aside from the NY State Police being called for some reason.
    Kiryas Joel, New York.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link. Never heard of it, but quite interesting place.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride," which I'm sure almost everyone has heard means that even if the officer cannot get a conviction he still gets the satisfaction of causing trouble and expense.
    And now his pretty picture is all over the Internet with his own actions painting him as the "sort of person" he really is. I'll bet his momma is so proud of him!

    Off to puke, now...
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    And now his pretty picture is all over the Internet with his own actions painting him as the "sort of person" he really is. I'll bet his momma is so proud of him!

    Off to puke, now...
    As I understand the situation: guy resists being coerced/forced into doing something he does not want to do. There is no law requiring him to do what others are trying to coerce/force him into doing.

    You jump all over him, implying that the "sort of person he really is" is something bad.

    What would your response be if the issue had been getting hassled over OCing when/where there was no law violation regarding OCing?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Thanks for the link. Never heard of it, but quite interesting place.
    It gives me pause to look at the statistics of that area and the dependency on social services.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

  13. #13
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    I think those "police officers" were feeling a little vulnerable and scaaaaared because they weren't wearing their magical, coveted pieces of government-issued costume jewelry.

  14. #14
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Until people start resisting these unlawful arrests, nothing will change.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    Until people start resisting these unlawful arrests, nothing will change.
    Although an arrest may be unlawful, resisting arrest remains both illegal and dangerous.

    The best time to resist and stick it to the man is after the cuffs are removed and you're free to go. Take that freedom to go file suite against a city that violated your civil rights.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Although an arrest may be unlawful, resisting arrest remains both illegal and dangerous.
    Untrue on the first count, undoubtedly on the second, but I maintain that being restrained and removed to another location, under the threat of lethal violence from the state's armed enforcers, represents an imminent threat to life...and that is before you even hit the jail or are subjected to the criminal "justice" system. Prudence should always be the order of the day, but the right to resist unlawful arrest has been a part of the Anglo-Saxon common law tradition for thousands of years and has been recognized by the SCOTUS in John Bad Elk v. U.S. and affirmed in numerous state court decisions which may be found at the link below.

    John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”

    http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

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