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Thread: Questions about Open Carrying. Please Help.

  1. #1
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    Questions about Open Carrying. Please Help.

    I'm Currently 19 in Jackson Michigan. Ive been looking at Open Carrying for a while now but have been skeptical about what I have read online. Today I made a trip to the state police station and they very rudely denied to answer my questions and sent me to this website. That being said I have a few questions.

    I am correct that the age is 18 to Carry in Michigan?
    The age to purchase handgun ammo is 21 in Michigan, does this prevent me from owning or possessing handgun ammo? If so, what about hand-loads, Since I legally purchase my own materials and load my own rounds. (Although I would be carrying factory defense rounds.)
    What are the stipulations on open carrying? Such as, does the safety legally need to be engaged, can there be one in the chamber ready to fire?
    Are there any stipulations on the amount of ammo, magazines, or the magazine size you are allowed to carry?
    Does a separate pouch/holster carrying an extra clip also need to be Open or can that be concealed?
    If I was wearing a short sleeve T-shirt, tucked in, and my arm was at my side blocking view of the gun partially, unintentionally, does this consider it to be concealed?

    Also, I drive an S10, being such it has no real "Trunk". Does the locked case for transport need to be in the bed. Or can it be behind or under the passenger or drivers seat?

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Welcome to the boring and unexciting world of open carry in Michigan.

    I'll throw some links at you that will have a lot of information in them. Read through these and we'll help to clarify stuff you still don't understand.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-Guide-Project
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...eference-chart
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...se-repeat-Link
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...en-Carry-in-MI

    Here's a link for the Citizen's League for Self Defense where you can purchase their Open Carry Handbook, which is one of the most comprehensive collection of information on OC in MI http://www.citizensleaguesd.com/ They're running a promotion right now so you can get a few $$ off.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Welcome to the boring and unexciting world of open carry in Michigan.

    I'll throw some links at you that will have a lot of information in them. Read through these and we'll help to clarify stuff you still don't understand.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-Guide-Project
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...eference-chart
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...se-repeat-Link
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...en-Carry-in-MI

    Here's a link for the Citizen's League for Self Defense where you can purchase their Open Carry Handbook, which is one of the most comprehensive collection of information on OC in MI http://www.citizensleaguesd.com/ They're running a promotion right now so you can get a few $$ off.

    Bronson
    I appreciate the help. After reading everything on the pages contained in the four links you sent me. The only question any of those answered was my vehicle transport question. All of that information I had read before, so a multitude of my questions still stand. I will be ordering a copy of the book you mentioned if my questions cannot be answered.

  4. #4
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I am correct that the age is 18 to Carry in Michigan?
    Yes

    The age to purchase handgun ammo is 21 in Michigan, does this prevent me from owning or possessing handgun ammo? If so, what about hand-loads, Since I legally purchase my own materials and load my own rounds. (Although I would be carrying factory defense rounds.)
    This does not prevent you from owning or possessing handgun ammo. It just prevents you from buying the ammo from an FFL dealer just like you can't buy a handgun from an FFL dealer.

    What are the stipulations on open carrying? Such as, does the safety legally need to be engaged, can there be one in the chamber ready to fire?
    Well if you have a "safety" it can still be on safe with a round in the chamber. But back to more what you're asking, yes you can open carry with a round in the chamber.

    Are there any stipulations on the amount of ammo, magazines, or the magazine size you are allowed to carry?
    Nope, you can carry around 100,000 with you if you so please (might get a bit heavy and expensive).

    Does a separate pouch/holster carrying an extra clip also need to be Open or can that be concealed?
    The extra MAGAZINE can be open or concealed as there is no law that prevents the carry of concealed magazines.

    If I was wearing a short sleeve T-shirt, tucked in, and my arm was at my side blocking view of the gun partially, unintentionally, does this consider it to be concealed?
    No.

    Also, I drive an S10, being such it has no real "Trunk". Does the locked case for transport need to be in the bed. Or can it be behind or under the passenger or drivers seat?
    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.
    Sec. 231a. (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
    (b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.
    (c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed
    Page 150
    FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN — 2011
    case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle. (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of
    the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    (2) As used in this section: (a) "Antique firearm" means either of the following: (i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed
    ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.
    (ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
    (b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following: (i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area. (ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair. (iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business. (iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency or for the purpose of
    having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon. (v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or
    sale. (vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge
    of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance. (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used
    as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

    You may put it (unloaded) in a case designed for the storage of a pistol as long as it's out of you're reach. You are not required by law to put a lock on it but it may be a good idea in case someone tries to say you weren't legally transporting it.
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 08-09-2011 at 07:35 PM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Yes


    This does not prevent you from owning or possessing handgun ammo. It just prevents you from buying the ammo from an FFL dealer just like you can't buy a handgun from an FFL dealer.


    Well if you have a "safety" it can still be on safe with a round in the chamber. But back to more what you're asking, yes you can open carry with a round in the chamber.


    Nope, you can carry around 100,000 with you if you so please (might get a bit heavy and expensive).


    The extra MAGAZINE can be open or concealed as there is no law that prevents the carry of concealed magazines.


    No.


    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.
    Sec. 231a. (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
    (b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.
    (c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed
    Page 150
    FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN 2011
    case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle. (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of
    the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    (2) As used in this section: (a) "Antique firearm" means either of the following: (i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed
    ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.
    (ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
    (b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following: (i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area. (ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair. (iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business. (iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency or for the purpose of
    having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon. (v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or
    sale. (vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge
    of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance. (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used
    as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

    You may put it (unloaded) in a case designed for the storage of a pistol as long as it's out of you're reach. You are not required by law to put a lock on it but it may be a good idea in case someone tries to say you weren't legally transporting it.
    Thank you sir! Most of these questions I assumed the answer to. But I wanted a second opinion just to be sure. Thanks for taking the time to adequately answer =)

  6. #6
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranard The Fox View Post
    Thank you sir! Most of these questions I assumed the answer to. But I wanted a second opinion just to be sure. Thanks for taking the time to adequately answer =)
    No problem. I am 19 too so carrying without a CPL sucks!!! Just make sure you unload and load outside your truck. I find it best to try to part where most people are not so no one sees you pulling out a gun. And stay away from those pesky liquor license establishments THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!!!!
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranard The Fox View Post
    I'm Currently 19 in Jackson Michigan. Ive been looking at Open Carrying for a while now but have been skeptical about what I have read online. Today I made a trip to the state police station and they very rudely denied to answer my questions and sent me to this website. That being said I have a few questions.

    I am correct that the age is 18 to Carry in Michigan?

    Yes, you are correct, but you are limited to open carry (OC) unless you're on your own property, business, or other property you lease/rent (MCL 750.227). You may also OC only in the places listed under MCL 750.234d if you have permission from the owner(s) or agent of the owner(s).

    The age to purchase handgun ammo is 21 in Michigan, does this prevent me from owning or possessing handgun ammo?

    The 21 or older age requirement is Federal for both ammo and handgun purchases throught the U.S., from licensed dealers. You may purchase, possess, pistol ammo obtained from private individuals, to include handguns at 18 years of age.

    If so, what about hand-loads, Since I legally purchase my own materials and load my own rounds. (Although I would be carrying factory defense rounds.)

    Except for purchase from a licensed dealer, there's no prohibition on reloads for 18 and over.

    What are the stipulations on open carrying? Such as, does the safety legally need to be engaged, can there be one in the chamber ready to fire?

    Personal preference on safety engagement, some prefer engaged, some not. Yes, a full mag and one in the pipe is legal.

    Are there any stipulations on the amount of ammo, magazines, or the magazine size you are allowed to carry?

    No, you may carry the amount you want. The Federal high capacity limitation (10 rounds max in mag) was repealed in Sept. 2004. Note: Some states such as California still recognize the law.

    Does a separate pouch/holster carrying an extra clip also need to be Open or can that be concealed?

    No limitations on pouches and holsters. Note: If you choose to OC, make sure you you an OWB type holster and make sure the holster and pistol is completely exposed.

    If I was wearing a short sleeve T-shirt, tucked in, and my arm was at my side blocking view of the gun partially, unintentionally, does this consider it to be concealed?

    In my opinion, no. However, if this is a big concern for you, you want to hold off on OC for a while until you become comfortable with the laws and/or obtain your CPL.

    Also, I drive an S10, being such it has no real "Trunk". Does the locked case for transport need to be in the bed. Or can it be behind or under the passenger or drivers seat?
    The case is not required by law to be locked in your situation. If by chance you have a tool box mounted in the bed, that would be the best option for transport. If not, the unloaded, encased pistol can be placed where it's not accessible by you or other occupants in the vehicle. Also, loaded mags and loose ammo may be transported in the case with the pistol. Just make sure there's no loaded mag in the well or a round in the pipe. (MCL 750.231a)

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    No problem. I am 19 too so carrying without a CPL sucks!!! Just make sure you unload and load outside your truck. I find it best to try to part where most people are not so no one sees you pulling out a gun. And stay away from those pesky liquor license establishments THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!!!!
    Ahh, Good to know there are other young carriers! On my visit to the police station after they had refused to answer my questions and told me they didn't have time to explain the law to me, they asked me why I was deciding to open carry. So I said to them "Because you wont let me conceal it until I'm 21." Then turned and left. Sure they weren't too happy about that.

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranard The Fox View Post
    I'm Currently 19 in Jackson Michigan. Ive been looking at Open Carrying for a while now but have been skeptical about what I have read online. Today I made a trip to the state police station and they very rudely denied to answer my questions and sent me to this website. That being said I have a few questions.

    I am correct that the age is 18 to Carry in Michigan? YES
    The age to purchase handgun ammo is 21 in Michigan, does this prevent me from owning or possessing handgun ammo? NO, many rifles take handgun loads.

    If so, what about hand-loads, Since I legally purchase my own materials and load my own rounds. (Although I would be carrying factory defense rounds.)Answered above.
    What are the stipulations on open carrying? Way too broad a question. I can't belive you did find many answers from the links.

    Such as, does the safety legally need to be engaged, NO
    can there be one in the chamber ready to fire? YES
    Are there any stipulations on the amount of ammo, magazines, or the magazine size you are allowed to carry? NO

    Does a separate pouch/holster carrying an extra clip also need to be Open or can that be concealed? Ammo an be concealed

    If I was wearing a short sleeve T-shirt, tucked in, and my arm was at my side blocking view of the gun partially, unintentionally, does this consider it to be concealed? Maybe, depends on the officer and the prosecutor, but common sense says it's not concealed. No more than if you OCed at night.

    Also, I drive an S10, being such it has no real "Trunk". Does the locked case for transport need to be in the bed. Or can it be behind or under the passenger or drivers seat? As long as the pistol is unloaded and in a case you are okay. It does NOT have to be locked (May be a good idea) and the ammo can be in the case with the gun and magizines can be loaded, just not in the pistol.

    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.Sec. 231a.
    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
    (b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.
    (c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.
    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    These are the places you can not possess a firearm, either in the building or in the parking lot.
    Know them well.

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. This includes gas stations, party stores, Krogers any place that sells beer wine or liquors.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


    Last edited by Venator; 08-09-2011 at 09:22 PM.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranard The Fox View Post
    Ahh, Good to know there are other young carriers! On my visit to the police station after they had refused to answer my questions and told me they didn't have time to explain the law to me, they asked me why I was deciding to open carry. So I said to them "Because you wont let me conceal it until I'm 21." Then turned and left. Sure they weren't too happy about that.

    READ READ READ, before you ever carry, too many pitfalls and ways to FU. Make sure you understand the laws inside and out before you carry.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post

    Yes, you are correct, but you are limited to open carry (OC) unless you're on your own property, business, or other property you lease/rent (MCL 750.227). You may also OC only in the places listed under MCL 750.234d if you have permission from the owner(s) or agent of the owner(s).
    Now that is new to me. What about public places, such as walking downtown, or in my case, I long-board a lot in area's that aren't so reputable. Is it legal to carry in public places as such? Also what about shopping center's such as a Meijer or a Wal-Mart, unless it's posted by sign or I am verbally asked to leave or not to carry, it is allowed in such places correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    READ READ READ, before you ever carry, too many pitfalls and ways to FU. Make sure you understand the laws inside and out before you carry.
    That is the purpose of me being here. The State police refused to answer my questions about it and referred me here. And the local township police has no idea about the laws when i asked them and told me to contact the State police.

  13. #13
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranard The Fox View Post
    That is the purpose of me being here. The State police refused to answer my questions about it and referred me here. And the local township police has no idea about the laws when i asked them and told me to contact the State police.
    Here, the state police is answering your questions... read and apply as applicable:

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranard The Fox View Post
    Now that is new to me. What about public places, such as walking downtown, or in my case, I long-board a lot in area's that aren't so reputable. Is it legal to carry in public places as such? Also what about shopping center's such as a Meijer or a Wal-Mart, unless it's posted by sign or I am verbally asked to leave or not to carry, it is allowed in such places correct?
    See 750.234d provided above by Venator. As I mentioned previously, you need permission from owner(s)/Agents to possess the firearm in those places listed under 750.234d. Unless you know the upper management of the stores that sell alcohol, I wouldn't bother asking for permission - it's usually a no win situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    See 750.234d provided above by Venator. As I mentioned previously, you need permission from owner(s)/Agents to possess the firearm in those places listed under 750.234d. Unless you know the upper management of the stores that sell alcohol, I wouldn't bother asking for permission - it's usually a no win situation.
    So a store that sells liquor is off limits? While a store such as Dunhams or an Art Van or Clothing store that does not have a liquor license I do not need permission from the store owner to Carry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranard The Fox View Post
    Ahh, Good to know there are other young carriers! On my visit to the police station after they had refused to answer my questions and told me they didn't have time to explain the law to me, they asked me why I was deciding to open carry. So I said to them "Because you wont let me conceal it until I'm 21." Then turned and left. Sure they weren't too happy about that.
    It's a shame, Indiana, Montana and South Dakota, to name a few, issue permits/licenses to carry at 18 years of age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranard The Fox View Post
    So a store that sells liquor is off limits? While a store such as Dunhams or an Art Van or Clothing store that does not have a liquor license I do not need permission from the store owner to Carry?
    Unfortuantely, it's not just the store, it's the "premises." Meaning, the buillding(s) and all other property the building is on, to include the parking lot. See 750.234d

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Unfortuantely, it's not just the store, it's the "premises." Meaning, the buillding(s) and all other property the building is on, to include the parking lot. See 750.234d
    Seems there would be an exemption in place for the parking lot or vehicles considering if they stay locked up, It isnt an issue.

    But does that mean stores that dont sell liquor are legal to carry in without permission? And what about public roads and sidewalks?

  19. #19
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranard The Fox View Post
    Seems there would be an exemption in place for the parking lot or vehicles considering if they stay locked up, It isnt an issue.

    But does that mean stores that dont sell liquor are legal to carry in without permission? And what about public roads and sidewalks?
    Any place that has any liquor license you may not carry on their premises period. This would include a place like Meijers or Branns. You cannot carry on the premises of any of these places until you have a Michigan CPL.
    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court. (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the
    Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection
    (1) if the
    possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer. (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that
    possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more
    than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    Also don't take advice from police they could very well be wrong. I would suggest holding off on carrying until you learn the laws a little better. If you have anymore questions you can PM and we can talk on the phone if it'd be easier.

    EDIT: And you're good on all public property because it is preempted and cities, townships, etc. cannot make an ordinance restricting firearms. And yes stores like Dunham's would be fine because they are not on the list I put above.
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 08-09-2011 at 08:52 PM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  20. #20
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    It's a shame, Indiana, Montana and South Dakota, to name a few, issue permits/licenses to carry at 18 years of age.
    Maine in North Dakota do as well. I have my Maine in my wallet and am waiting on the North Dakota. Considering getting a New Hampshire because North Dakota is really being a pain about my application, but according to someone who has a ND permit they can be like that.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  21. #21
    Regular Member
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    I would also like to point out that there are likely establishments licensed to sell alcohol that do not actually sell any.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Get2DahChopper's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Use this link!

    As pointed out by Lapeer20m there maybe places that don't sell booze but, have a license. The cops know these traps and are more than willing to jam up a poorly informed OCer. Good luck and carry on!

    http://www2.dleg.state.mi.us/llist/
    Last edited by Get2DahChopper; 08-09-2011 at 09:30 PM. Reason: add link to MLCC

  23. #23
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranard The Fox View Post
    Now that is new to me. What about public places, such as walking downtown, or in my case, I long-board a lot in area's that aren't so reputable. Is it legal to carry in public places as such? Also what about shopping center's such as a Meijer or a Wal-Mart, unless it's posted by sign or I am verbally asked to leave or not to carry, it is allowed in such places correct?
    He meant you can conceal carry on your own property, but have to OC in other areas allowed by law. Besides state and federal law you can OC in all areas not listed in .234d. Keep in mind that businesses can ban firearms.

    See what we mean by there is a lot to this and it's confusing at first. Learn, study and ask questions.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranard The Fox View Post
    Seems there would be an exemption in place for the parking lot or vehicles considering if they stay locked up, It isnt an issue.

    But does that mean stores that dont sell liquor are legal to carry in without permission? And what about public roads and sidewalks?
    Ranard, the method(s) I used in the beginning to aid in understanding (or attempting to do so) he laws was to use the Michigan Legislature website or just Google to locate the pertinent statutes. I would then copy and paste the statute into a Word.doc, print and save the doc to my desktop for later reference. The statutes I'd print would be those such as MCL's: 28.425o (for CPL holders), 750.234d, 750.231a, and so on. Refer to the printed docs often and make notes on them as necessary. In other words, create a portfolio of the relevant MCL's.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(rja...aspx?page=home
    Last edited by SpringerXDacp; 08-09-2011 at 09:29 PM.

  25. #25
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get2DahChopper View Post
    As pointed out by Lapeer20m there maybe places that don't sell booze but, have a license. The cops know these traps and are more than willing to jam up a poorly informed OCer. Good luck and carry on!
    Here is the Michigan Liquor License Look-up, by county

    http://www2.dleg.state.mi.us/llist/
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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