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Thread: Insurance for the gravest extreme

  1. #1
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Insurance for the gravest extreme

    Any information that we can share here with each other may just keep one of us out of bankruptcy court.

    I would like to get insurance to cover me in the unlikely event that I have to use lethal force. I am not in a financial position to drop a couple grand to cover a retainer fee for a lawyer, let alone the thousands of dollars that will follow in a legal battle. I have heard of a million dollar rider policy, USCCA policy, etc... I know that some policies reimburse you and some pay up front. I am interested in learning the pro's and con's of each.
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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Hire a bodyguard...with an umbrella???
    Attachment 6612
    Last edited by Lurchiron; 08-09-2011 at 08:55 PM.
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    Regular Member theoicarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    Any information that we can share here with each other may just keep one of us out of bankruptcy court.

    I would like to get insurance to cover me in the unlikely event that I have to use lethal force. I am not in a financial position to drop a couple grand to cover a retainer fee for a lawyer, let alone the thousands of dollars that will follow in a legal battle. I have heard of a million dollar rider policy, USCCA policy, etc... I know that some policies reimburse you and some pay up front. I am interested in learning the pro's and con's of each.
    I never thought about that!
    How interesting. I cannot say I have heard about residential insurance for that. If anyone out here is an insurance agent or there abouts and has knowledge of this please respond.
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  4. #4
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    This type of insurance is offered through a few places...

    Armed Citizens Defense Network
    CHLPP
    USCCA
    Allstate 1 million dollar homeowner's rider
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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Exclamation A Strong Castle Doctrine Law Would Take Care Of Most If Not All Of Your Concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    Any information that we can share here with each other may just keep one of us out of bankruptcy court.

    I would like to get insurance to cover me in the unlikely event that I have to use lethal force. I am not in a financial position to drop a couple grand to cover a retainer fee for a lawyer, let alone the thousands of dollars that will follow in a legal battle. I have heard of a million dollar rider policy, USCCA policy, etc... I know that some policies reimburse you and some pay up front. I am interested in learning the pro's and con's of each.

    We need a CLONE of Florida's "Castle Doctrine" here in Wisconsin. You may "Stand your ground" anywhere you have the legal right to be and use up to lethal force if justified. You cannot be sued in civil court for defending you or your family and you cannot be charged by the police.

    A Castle Doctrine such as Florida's would stop so many lawsuits and so many charges by police when people have to defend themselves. Let's push hard for a real castle doctrine law...not some watered down crap.

    If you are interested there may be another choice: Check out what the USCCA has to offer. They have some kind of "insurance" supposedly that helps with legal fees and lawyers in case you have to use your firearm and they are located here in Wisconsin.
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

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    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    We need a CLONE of Florida's "Castle Doctrine" here in Wisconsin. You may "Stand your ground" anywhere you have the legal right to be and use up to lethal force if justified. You cannot be sued in civil court for defending you or your family and you cannot be charged by the police.

    A Castle Doctrine such as Florida's would stop so many lawsuits and so many charges by police when people have to defend themselves. Let's push hard for a real castle doctrine law...not some watered down crap.
    I agree, but that does nothing for the man that uses lethal force in defense of his life today. I don't want to find myself in Jesus Gonzales situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    If you are interested there may be another choice: Check out what the USCCA has to offer. They have some kind of "insurance" supposedly that helps with legal fees and lawyers in case you have to use your firearm and they are located here in Wisconsin.
    That's exactly what I am talking about. I am looking to find out pro's and con's between the different insurance options. Of course those that have the insurance would likely offer the best feedback on this. Perhaps I should be asking this question on the general forum?
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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Lightbulb USCCA Link .....Look At The Self Defense SHIELD...It May Be What You Are Looking For.

    https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/

    I am not a member of the organization but find the SHIELD interesting. It may be what you are looking for.
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    I agree, but that does nothing for the man that uses lethal force in defense of his life today. I don't want to find myself in Jesus Gonzales situation.
    Time will tell (once the whole story comes out in court) if even castle doctrine would apply to that scenario....

  9. #9
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    I agree with IK on this one. We need more evidence to determine if Jesus's actions were justified. The original question is still a good one concerning liability insurance.

    The issue of provocation comes into play whenever claiming self-defense. The defendant must prove provoaction.

    939.44(1)(b)
    939.44(2)

    939.48(2)
    (2)Provocation affects the privilege of self-defense as follows:


    939.48(2)(a)
    (a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.

    If a person can be found that he/she by some way shape or form provoked an attack the strongest Castle Doctrine in the country could be useless.

    Hopefully our Castle Doctrine law will modify the quoted statute.
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 08-10-2011 at 08:54 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    NRA Insurance

    NRA Insurance is available to any NRA Member in the form of general liability with self-defense rider. For:

    $165 gets you $100,000 liability with $50,000 limit for defense fees.

    $256 gets you $250,000 liability with $50,000 limit for defense fees.

    Just saying...
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  11. #11
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    NRA Insurance is available to any NRA Member in the form of general liability with self-defense rider. For:

    $165 gets you $100,000 liability with $50,000 limit for defense fees.

    $256 gets you $250,000 liability with $50,000 limit for defense fees.

    Just saying...
    Do you know if they pay up front or are a reimbursement insurance?
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  12. #12
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    Do you know if they pay up front or are a reimbursement insurance?
    You can start your investigation here:

    http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/defense.htm

    They have a toll free number to answer your questions, but the website links suggest that they not only cover you, but NRA lawyers defend you.

    I just began my investigation of this NRA service today, but my initial thought is to purchase the plan. That, in addition to some special NRA Instructor Insurance to insulate me against any dumb moves my students make. (Both UT and the new WI law protect me, but I would rather be safe than sorry.)
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    There are basically two ways this issue has been approached.

    The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Fund is not an insurance program, and will "front" five thousand bucks to your participating attorney if you're arrested because of your having used a firearm in self-defense. They're not an insurance program, but a trust fund. The other approach is an insurance policy.

    United States Concealed Carry Association's "shield" program is such a policy, applicable to both civil and criminal cases. In civil cases, the insurance company has the option of providing a lawyer to defend you, and you can hire your own lawyer, and at the successful conclusion, they'll reimburse the money you had to pay. In criminal cases, you pay for your own lawyer, and they'll reimburse you if you're found not guilty.

    I'm signed up as a participating attorney with both of these, but I really have no experience that would indicate how reliable any of these are, and I wouldn't depend solely on their help anyway - they both say they'll pay up at their own discretion, and have to be convinced you're the goodguy in the situation before they'll think about it.

    Best thing is to start saving your pennies. I generally charge a minimum of six thousand bucks to defend someone in a local circuit court (trial court of record in Virginia), and more if I have to travel across the state or if there are multiple charges. A civil suit can go to ten or twenty thousand dollars, depending on how much fighting there is between the two sides. I'd be putting money away, if I were you, just in case. The worst that could happen is that you'd have some retirement funds when the day comes.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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