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Thread: Oc ranger contact in kings canyon national park

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    Oc ranger contact in kings canyon national park

    8/5/11-12 My wife and I went up in the high Sierra Nevada range for a 2 day backpacking hike. We started in Onion Valley, Inyo National Forest and hiked into Kings Canyon National Park(there is a sign at the park border that says no weapons) over two high passes to Ray Lakes. During the twelve mile trip we encountered 2 rangers and dozens of other hikers. No one took notice or reacted to my UOC S&W Bodyguard 38 special on my right hip or my double speed loaders on my left. On our return trip Saturday we stopped for lunch trail-side (packs off). A veteran ranger came down the path accompanying two civilians. The Civilians passed and the ranger stopped to do his job. Very friendly. He asked Why I was carrying a weapon? I replied "because I can "He said "well no you can't". I replied "I am pretty sure I can" He asked me "Do you have a Concealed Cary Permit" I replied "no its not concealed". He asked "Is it loaded" I replied "no it was not" I then explained I was a very careful law abiding citizen and I had done my home work and was sure I was within my legal rights... He said well I guess there is this open carry movement and 2A types are... I assured him I was not part of any open carry anything and my wife is scared to camp in bear country and last night was the first good nights sleep she had had in years of backpacking up here. Then he says "how about those speed loaders is there ammo in there?" I reply affirmative and he says "that is illegal in close proximity". I recite the round must be in a position to be fired law as best as I remember it. He pauses a minute and I guess everything I said made sense to him and he says. " It is the spirit of the park not to have weapons and harm animals and I could carry 10 more candy bars if I left the gun home and people might get upset...and then he loosely quotes some George Bernard Shaw story... My wonderful wife says to him you are the first person that has noticed the revolver all weekend and he admits he is hyper sensitive about weapons and then he suggests in the future I conceal the weapon. I tell him that would be against California law and he sort of nods and acknowledges.

    A couple of things. 1.)as of today I AM one of those UOCers Thanks to the Ranger for suggesting it. 2.) It is my understanding that National Park Rangers are federal LEOs This guy was in the service since 1979, what am I doing educating him and what is he doing making accusations of legal malfeasance. 3.) Here is the huge one. What if I took his advise and concealed illegally and got caught?
    I am a new gun owner this year and I am amazed.

    "Ready to ride and spread the alarm to every Middlesex village and farm for the country folk to be up and to arm"
    Last edited by Concordian; 08-10-2011 at 02:57 AM.

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    I'm very surprised a veteran Ranger behaved that way. I have over a thousand miles in high sierra back country and have always OC'd (except in National Parks and Wilderness Areas prior to the change in fed law) I've never once had a ranger question my choice to carry - but I've had some instances of gunny-talk as a result.

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    Last edited by mjones; 08-10-2011 at 01:31 PM.

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    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    How many miles was this hike?

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    How many miles was this hike?
    Quote Originally Posted by Concordian View Post
    During the twelve mile trip...

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    When it comes to bears, or any other predator on four legs, two legs or no legs at all -
    I'd Much rather carry a firearm than carry 10 more sweet snacks. I'm delicious enough as is, thankyouverymuch.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Good for you for standing your ground with the ranger. But I would suggest you carry a can of bear strength pepper spray for bears. I would not depend on a just a 38 when it comes to angry bears, especially if they are unloaded. Take it from a former LEO if you are right handed move your speed loaders to your right hip. Then you are not reaching across your waist to retrieve them and load. Fortunately for us here we can open carry loaded, but when on the trail I take pepper spray, flashlight, boaters horn, good knife, as well as being armed.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    When it comes to bears, or any other predator on four legs, two legs or no legs at all -
    I'd Much rather carry a firearm than carry 10 more sweet snacks. I'm delicious enough as is, thankyouverymuch.
    When it comes to bears or big cats every advantage that can be carried, as fast as bears are a good hiking dog is nice to have along.

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Good for you for standing your ground with the ranger. But I would suggest you carry a can of bear strength pepper spray for bears. I would not depend on a just a 38 when it comes to angry bears, especially if they are unloaded. Take it from a former LEO if you are right handed move your speed loaders to your right hip. Then you are not reaching across your waist to retrieve them and load. Fortunately for us here we can open carry loaded, but when on the trail I take pepper spray, flashlight, boaters horn, good knife, as well as being armed.
    I'm not seeing the strategic or tactical advantage of a right handed shooter having his speedloaders on his right hip so that they "are not reaching across your waist to retrieve them". A right handed shooter, attempting to load a firearm, is going to have said firearm in their right hand. Magazines or speed loaders would be more quickly and easily accessed if on the opposite (left) side so that the left hand can retrieve and load while the right hand is holding/preparing (i.e. drawing and droping any empty mag or opening the cylinder of a wheel gun).

    Having spare mags/speed loaders on the right hip would require a left hand reach to the right hip when the firearm is in the right hand. If you're a right handed shooter and move the firearm to the left hand to load/reload, then there is a training issue.
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    If I'm any where there are bears the minimum I carry is 10mm.
    A 38 would make them very mad.
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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    I'm not seeing the strategic or tactical advantage of a right handed shooter having his speedloaders on his right hip so that they "are not reaching across your waist to retrieve them".

    A right handed shooter, attempting to load a firearm, is going to have said firearm in their right hand. Magazines or speed loaders would be more quickly and easily accessed if on the opposite (left) side so that the left hand can retrieve and load while the right hand is holding/preparing (i.e. drawing and droping any empty mag or opening the cylinder of a wheel gun).

    Having spare mags/speed loaders on the right hip would require a left hand reach to the right hip when the firearm is in the right hand. If you're a right handed shooter and move the firearm to the left hand to load/reload, then there is a training issue.
    For a revolver, the 'standard' method for reloading (especially from a speedloader) is as follows for a 'righty'
    Engage the cylinder release with the right thumb.
    Push the cylinder through from the back with the left hand.
    Point the barrel up and repeatedly engage the ejector rod with the left thumb.
    Simultaneously retrieve a speed loader with the right hand.
    Point barrel down while indexing the cartridges.
    Release cartridges and drop speed loader.
    Close cylinder with left hand thumb while reaquiring a shooting grip.

    Since the speed loader is being grabbed with the right hand, it should be on the right side of the body.

    For a completely empty revolver from the start - loading in a fashion similar to an auto-loader might be faster. I don't think it would be for me simply because I've got too much muscle memory reloading a wheelgun.

    Pullnshoot, what do you recommend, you're the only person I know that regularly UOCs a wheel gun.
    Last edited by mjones; 08-10-2011 at 06:49 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Thank you mjones you save me the time of having to type all that out. I have not seen even lefties load a revolver with a swing out with the left hand. But then it is the way I was trained to load, and seems the safest to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    How many miles was this hike?
    12 mile per day 2 days

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    When it comes to bears or big cats every advantage that can be carried, as fast as bears are a good hiking dog is nice to have along.
    No dogs allowed in the park.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    I don't own a wheel gun, but if I did, I'd practice what Massad Ayoob recommends in this video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    I'm not seeing the strategic or tactical advantage of a right handed shooter having his speedloaders on his right hip so that they "are not reaching across your waist to retrieve them". A right handed shooter, attempting to load a firearm, is going to have said firearm in their right hand. Magazines or speed loaders would be more quickly and easily accessed if on the opposite (left) side so that the left hand can retrieve and load while the right hand is holding/preparing (i.e. drawing and droping any empty mag or opening the cylinder of a wheel gun).

    Having spare mags/speed loaders on the right hip would require a left hand reach to the right hip when the firearm is in the right hand. If you're a right handed shooter and move the firearm to the left hand to load/reload, then there is a training issue.
    I am kind of limited by my equipment while back packing, I had to stitch the strap for the holster to the hip belt right side and slide the speed loaders on the other side belt. Nothing quick gonna happen while I am hiking. Plus there is little threat of bear problems on the trail. The gun is loaded in camp and if you are in a tent and a bear goes nuts on you you are in a difficult spot any how. Thanks for the instruction I am aware and with no muscle memory but a bunch of practice I am 4.5 seconds holster to sight. At 12,000 feet, after a 1000 ft grind, out of breath with a 155 pulse, you may as well shoot me cause right hand, left hand, upside down I am an easy 15 seconds. The selection of the BG was the weight alone, under 2 lbs with 10 rounds. If I was in the bear killing business that would not be my choice. I carry bear spray. I said I was a new gun owner not just new! The point is my original response to the Ranger. Because I can!

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    A speedy loader is not speedy. It's better than loading one cartridge at a time, but not as fast a shoving in a mag. They should be called handy loaders.
    Moon clips are the best way to go for speed.
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    Tell me if I am incorrect but as far as I know you still cannot carry in a national park without a ccw. Am I wrong. Please let me know. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mloebrich View Post
    Tell me if I am incorrect but as far as I know you still cannot carry in a national park without a ccw. Am I wrong. Please let me know. Thanks.
    Carrying LOADED openly is illegal in NATIONAL parks, sanctuary's, and wildlife reserves. National FORESTS are clear for loaded carry, and in your campground

    Carrying UN-loaded openly is legal nearly anywhere in National parks etc.. (no going into the Ranger stations or visitors centers, or other occupied for business government buildings, while carrying).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    Carrying LOADED openly is illegal in NATIONAL parks, sanctuary's, and wildlife reserves. National FORESTS are clear for loaded carry, and in your campground

    Carrying UN-loaded openly is legal nearly anywhere in National parks etc.. (no going into the Ranger stations or visitors centers, or other occupied for business government buildings, while carrying).
    If I read it correctly the CA law says loaded in your camp site not camp ground. If you are in a camp ground and have to cross a public road to go to the head and you are LOC you may have a problem. I am careful to define for myself where my camp site is. We camped in a public camp ground in Onion Valley before our hike. I was careful to unload before going to the head in a government building.
    Just thinking.

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Well I guess I've been loading the wheel gun "wrong". LOL

    I activate the cylinder release with right thumb, push the cylinder through with right trigger finger, slam the extractor rod with the left hand (not sure which finger now that I'm trying to think through it) and insert the rounds with left hand.

    I never would have considered switching hands, and probably still won't. I carry a semi except in snake habitat which is what the wheel gun is for though the rounds are anti-snake, anti-two legged snake (PDX rounds)
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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I could carry 10 more candy bars if I left the gun home and people might get upset.

    Good to know the guardian revolver is a '10 candy bar gun', lol.
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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    Carrying LOADED openly is illegal in NATIONAL parks, sanctuary's, and wildlife reserves. National FORESTS are clear for loaded carry, and in your campground

    Carrying UN-loaded openly is legal nearly anywhere in National parks etc.. (no going into the Ranger stations or visitors centers, or other occupied for business government buildings, while carrying).
    Not anymore. It depends on the governing 'state' laws. OC is perfectly legal in all National Parks, Forests, etc in CO away from Denver County--CC is legal everywhere with a CO or states we recognize, CCW. Of course, being a free state, it is 'loaded' OC. KA law, of course being a Gulag, is different.
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    First he says that you can't do something that is legal and then he advises you to do some something illegal (Although lawful). Sounds like someone got their wires crossed along the way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    When it comes to bears, or any other predator on four legs, two legs or no legs at all -
    I'd Much rather carry a firearm than carry 10 more sweet snacks. I'm delicious enough as is, thankyouverymuch.
    I suppose... if one like jerky...

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    Just more reasons to remain east of the Colorado River.

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