Tony4310
Regular Member
I just wanted to share it with you all lol. I wrote STL today and told them they got it wrong.
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Olivette Mo To Ban Open Carry
- Thread starter xdmcompact
- Start date
PracticalTactical
Regular Member
Does MO not have preemption?
Tony4310
Regular Member
No, it does not. Only for ccw,but not for OC
lincomores
Regular Member
You're request was for a "show of bodies" at Olivette was followed by your statement about a "rally" at Troy "linking" the two thoughts together. There was one, welcomed, "body" representing Missouri Open Carry at that Troy meeting.
While I appreciate any, and all, efforts "behind the scenes", if that is what you're referring to,
the decision to trash the amendment was made the Friday prior to the meeting after two local citizens met with public officials as well as the Troy Police Chief and County Sheriff, just so you know.
The point is that it was a win for the 2nd Amendment and not a personal victory for anyone.
Regards...
You are welcome to believe whatever you like sir, I know what was done and I know the person who did it seeks anonymity so I grant him that without regard to other theories.
You made your post and I saw it at approximately 11:00pm the night before the meeting, I know this because I called Doc and was concerned he would be in bed.
Beyond that it can remain a mystery as far as public discussion on the internet and you are welcome to whatever it is you want to think happened.
lincomores
Regular Member
It really isn't a matter of me "believing" anything. I was directly involved from the inception of the entire issue.
And, I beg to differ that you know what took place...you know what took place on your end the evening prior to the meeting perhaps, but you didn't know what took place leading up to that time. You weren't there during discussions with Aldermen, City Clerk, Mayor, Chief of Police and the City Attorney. I was, because it was my email to my Ward III Alderman that started the whole thing. ThePhotog was on the phone to our City officials as well as meeting with the City Attorney to gather key information. We "live" here, remember? In fact, I've lived in Troy for 30 years. City Hall is like home to me.
My post, here, was in response to ThePhotog's post being lifted to this forum from another. The special meeting was called. A vote had to take place...it was mere formality. But the issue became tense when one key alderwoman was not going to be there. There were others who were for the amendment but caved. Three key players in this were the two Alderman of Ward III and the City Clerk.
Now, I'm not privy to what took place on your end. And as I said, I appreciated whatever did take place. If you want to really know the absolute key player here, it was the Chief of Police, Jeff Taylor. Why? Because the City Attorney drafted the Amendment stating that the Troy Police Department endorsed this amendment. ThePhotog called the Chief, who was out of town at the time. The Chief then contacted the City Attorney and instructed him to remove that statement as they did not (would not), in fact, endorse it. "That" amendment was dead right then and there.
Then things changed. The City Attorney suggested modifying the current law to mirror that of California's law where the firearm would have to be "unloaded" but you could carry loaded magazines. The work of the two Alderman of Ward III, and the City Clerk, in discussions with the Mayor and the remaining Alderman garnered the votes to defeat the amendment. There are three Alderpersons who are nothing more than lapdogs for the Mayor and will go with whatever he says. With the one pro 2a Alderwoman not present, the Mayor represented the tie-breaker...we have seen this scenario play out many times in special meetings... The concern was that they were going to attempt to ram the amendment through with the Mayor casting the deciding vote...however, the Mayor said he would not support the amendment at the onset of the meeting (check the video) Alderman Hagedorn asked, "why are we even here?" Thus, it failed.
I understand... and again for the umpteenth time, appreciate all efforts by all folks...but honestly dude, you weren't involved in the process leading up to this, and weren't involved in the mechanics and discussions surrounding it.
In your post above that started this little tit for tat bs, you said you wanted bodies at Olivette and likened it to the rally at Troy. That made it appear as if there were a large rally of folks bodily present...your entire context was of physical presence. I merely pointed out that there was no large rally present at the Troy meeting and there wasn't. It was your statements not mine.
Here is what you said: (emphasis added)
You "don't" know the whole story, obviously.
But I perceive that you are having some difficulty in admitting that as well as understanding the context of your own statements.
Can we agree that 2nd folks gained a victory in Troy and quit this confrontational attitude you exude?
All this...because I didn't want a wrong impression put out there about what took place at Troy and all based on the context of your own statements...sigh
Regards...
Tony4310
Regular Member
I think this convo is best left in the PM box, guys. We don't need anyone reading this stuff and taking it out of context.
lincomores
Regular Member
I'm done...but you do make a good point
I have 0 problem admitting anything and I am well aware of what I have and have not said. I have made no claim to having been at the troy meeting or any meeting prior to your posting the concern.
If you indeed were involved in the meetings prior as you say, which I have no reason to doubt, why did you bother posting it at all since you knew it was dead already?
I think you need to go back and take a good hard look at the thread because a lot of folks are going to indeed have more difficulty than myself believing that you knew it was dead on Friday and on Monday evening you were asking for volunteers to assist, it does not sell too well.
Now you MAY take exception to my use of the word "rally" but if you will quit pretending I am saying things I did not say and take your silly self back to the thread and look, what I have said is PRECISELY what happened only I was off by 30 mins it was after 11:30 pm and if you will read the whole damn thing you will see where I made sure Doc got credit for trying to help as well.
You seem to be implying that I aka LMTD am trying to take "credit" for the win in Troy, nothing could be further from the truth, nor have I made such a claim so get off it. My very first post on the Troy thread defined I could not be involved. I made PHONE CALLS and I have never claimed to do more than that, and PHONE calls were made to others. I did not call a single council person, I alerted RESIDENTS of TROY of the impending legislation and that is the end of my involvement.
I am Privy to information from one of the people I in fact called and he is not a member of this sight but he is a man of honor who likes his gun rights and we discussed what HE DID and I KNOW what effect HIS efforts had.
Now here is a sound and clear clue for you, I do not do ANYTHING for the OC movement, WE do things for the OC movement and as controversial as the topic of OC is, no one gets "credit" because no one person could get it done, it takes all of us and up until now I was not aware you considered yourself and others part of a separate movement.
Now when you decide to pick out words and come off like an ass, I have to ask you, WHAT PART OF WE do you not understand? I said WE needed support like WE were able to rally for Troy and while you consider yourself separate I do not, you are part of that WE and my friend whom I called specifically does not wish to be part of that WE.
If some how I have offended you by including you, well you might as well get used to being offended, I tend to do it a lot. Frankly I don't really have any idea where you get off playing this game because I consider a lot of folks working to help you a rally of support, but rest assured, I do not care what your opinion is, WE did it and I do not care if you are offended, you are supposed to be in control of yourself and I take no responsibility for your feelings what so ever, I do not change sir and I have never meant you any offense nor do I now, but if you imply again that I am taking credit for something or that I am trying to mislead folks again, I can assure you, I can become quite offensive and have no concerns what so ever about doing so.
Sorry Tony, but I ain't up for that, for whatever reason this guy is implying I am a liar and 100% of what I have said exist on the TROY thread. He is not going ti imply such things and then run to pm's to settle it.
lincomores
Regular Member
Ok, so we aren't quite done...
I'm implying no such thing. Lying about what?
I simply responded to your own statements about Olivette and Troy.
I've acknowledged that I wasn't privy to whatever was done the night before the meeting on the part of Open Carry MO. Honestly, you make no sense.
Your own posts tell a different story.
"IF" I were? Of course I was...the entire issue was raised by me to begin with.
Apparently, you aren't paying attention to the conversation. I already explained "why I posted." If ThePhotog's post had not been copied to this forum, I would not have even posted anything.
The concern on my part was that we, here in Troy, didn't know exactly "what" amendment was going to be presented. From conversations with the City Attorney, it appeared as if they were going to edit the existing amendment and propose a CA style of open carry ordinance. Based on prior experience with this City Council, special meetings are used to ram things through without much public exposure and discourse. Based on prior experience, the Mayor manipulates the system as well as the make up of the Board.
Forgive me if I didn't sit down and detail all of that information out in my posts for you. Things just don't happen willy nilly. There is always a lot going on that only people who are actually involved in the process even know about.
What was dead on Friday was the original amendment. What was in real question was whether or not a modification had been made to restrict the existing open carry ordinance so much so that it was useless...much like CA.
I've read the posts...this isn't about "credit" as you're stating. That isn't it at all.
It was about your post inferring that there was a large bodily presence at the Troy City Council Meeting on behalf of Open Carry MO.
Why are you having such difficulty following such a simple line of discussion?
I've quoted your own statements about Olivette and emphasized the "physical presence context."
My original statement stands as correct. You've made this something totally different.
It NEVER had ANYTHING to do with what was done the night before the Troy meeting, credit, you...blah blah...It still doesn't.
I responded to that part of your statement because I know you were unaware of what took place there. That doesn't diminish what was done by anyone else. I only let you know that there was much going on during the entire process that you haven't a clue about. I thought it was an important aspect for folks to know that there are individual citizens who are engaged behind the scenes in small Communities...hey and we don't even Open Carry!
Obviously it was a major mistake to even suggest that there was more to the story than you were aware of. Lesson learned...don't engage in multi-faceted story lines with you...got it!
Where do you get the idea that my comment about Olivette had anything to do with credit? I've said repeatedly that this was a victory for 2a, period.
You're making stuff up. You've managed to take a very simple comment and turn it into something it never was. Good job!
I don't get "offended." I've never given anyone that kind of power over me...get real.
And, you can take your veiled threat ("... but if you imply again that I am taking credit for something or that I am trying to mislead folks again, I can assure you, I can become quite offensive and have no concerns what so ever about doing so.") and stuff it. You made all of that garbage up and now want to use it as a basis for a threat...again, good job pal! Your bravado is unbecoming of an adult.
I believe you when you say "you don't change..." Maturing in our ability to communicate and relate to one another in a skillful manner takes time and a willingness to learn and grow.
You come across as a bit of a loose cannon that seems to run at the mouth prior to engaging any real thought.
If you can't follow a very simple line of thought (Olivette vs Troy) as I originally posted, how on earth could you ever convey complex ideals such as God-given rights.
Your comment to me, in our PM, about how you would approach LE at a meet n' greet told me all I needed to know. I wouldn't want you, personally, representing me in any capacity. That may work for others, but not me.
This is just a personal thought. It has nothing to do with Open Carry MO or anyone else, except you.
I'm certain that you are a nice enough person in general...but as a representative...not so much.
Good luck
I'm implying no such thing. Lying about what?
I simply responded to your own statements about Olivette and Troy.
I've acknowledged that I wasn't privy to whatever was done the night before the meeting on the part of Open Carry MO. Honestly, you make no sense.
Your own posts tell a different story.
"IF" I were? Of course I was...the entire issue was raised by me to begin with.
Apparently, you aren't paying attention to the conversation. I already explained "why I posted." If ThePhotog's post had not been copied to this forum, I would not have even posted anything.
The concern on my part was that we, here in Troy, didn't know exactly "what" amendment was going to be presented. From conversations with the City Attorney, it appeared as if they were going to edit the existing amendment and propose a CA style of open carry ordinance. Based on prior experience with this City Council, special meetings are used to ram things through without much public exposure and discourse. Based on prior experience, the Mayor manipulates the system as well as the make up of the Board.
Forgive me if I didn't sit down and detail all of that information out in my posts for you. Things just don't happen willy nilly. There is always a lot going on that only people who are actually involved in the process even know about.
What was dead on Friday was the original amendment. What was in real question was whether or not a modification had been made to restrict the existing open carry ordinance so much so that it was useless...much like CA.
I've read the posts...this isn't about "credit" as you're stating. That isn't it at all.
It was about your post inferring that there was a large bodily presence at the Troy City Council Meeting on behalf of Open Carry MO.
Why are you having such difficulty following such a simple line of discussion?
I've quoted your own statements about Olivette and emphasized the "physical presence context."
My original statement stands as correct. You've made this something totally different.
It NEVER had ANYTHING to do with what was done the night before the Troy meeting, credit, you...blah blah...It still doesn't.
I responded to that part of your statement because I know you were unaware of what took place there. That doesn't diminish what was done by anyone else. I only let you know that there was much going on during the entire process that you haven't a clue about. I thought it was an important aspect for folks to know that there are individual citizens who are engaged behind the scenes in small Communities...hey and we don't even Open Carry!
Obviously it was a major mistake to even suggest that there was more to the story than you were aware of. Lesson learned...don't engage in multi-faceted story lines with you...got it!
Where do you get the idea that my comment about Olivette had anything to do with credit? I've said repeatedly that this was a victory for 2a, period.
You're making stuff up. You've managed to take a very simple comment and turn it into something it never was. Good job!
I don't get "offended." I've never given anyone that kind of power over me...get real.
And, you can take your veiled threat ("... but if you imply again that I am taking credit for something or that I am trying to mislead folks again, I can assure you, I can become quite offensive and have no concerns what so ever about doing so.") and stuff it. You made all of that garbage up and now want to use it as a basis for a threat...again, good job pal! Your bravado is unbecoming of an adult.
I believe you when you say "you don't change..." Maturing in our ability to communicate and relate to one another in a skillful manner takes time and a willingness to learn and grow.
You come across as a bit of a loose cannon that seems to run at the mouth prior to engaging any real thought.
If you can't follow a very simple line of thought (Olivette vs Troy) as I originally posted, how on earth could you ever convey complex ideals such as God-given rights.
Your comment to me, in our PM, about how you would approach LE at a meet n' greet told me all I needed to know. I wouldn't want you, personally, representing me in any capacity. That may work for others, but not me.
This is just a personal thought. It has nothing to do with Open Carry MO or anyone else, except you.
I'm certain that you are a nice enough person in general...but as a representative...not so much.
Good luck
sohighlyunlikely
Regular Member
you 2
Will you 2 stop hijacking this thread. At least go to a thread with Troy in the title. LMTD: this is not the time and place for this. Lincomores: do you need a high five or a good job congrats or what. Let it go and concentrate on the important task at hand.
Doc
Will you 2 stop hijacking this thread. At least go to a thread with Troy in the title. LMTD: this is not the time and place for this. Lincomores: do you need a high five or a good job congrats or what. Let it go and concentrate on the important task at hand.
Doc
Clue<==== print it out and put it in your pocket so you have one.
You keep trying to say the same thing and it doesn't change. A "rally of support" does not mean a physical presence in the context I used it. I understand you are totally confused over this, I can't help you with that, its YOUR problem.
I am sorry if you do not understand, but only you can fix that.
I told you the same thing I have said on this board. If an officer shows up at a meet and greet he is welcome to join, however, if he/she is there in an official capacity I would indeed ask them to leave. I also explained my position on video camera usage etc and several other things you indicated you had questions on, I frankly do not remember the entire conversation but I know it has nothing to do with this one.
I am not sure why you are referencing it as a "threat" I simply was stating I was being restrained some what in speaking directly to just how stupid I think you are being, but you opted to keep it going so there you go, you are acting like an idiot over your own misunderstanding of the word "rally" and I have to assume it is because for whatever reason you felt the need to act like a moron over it.
RALLY
a : to muster for a common purpose b : to recall to order
2
a : to arouse for action b : to rouse from depression or weakness
intransitive verb
1
: to come together again to renew an effort
2
: to join in a common cause
3
: recover, rebound <rallied briefly from his illness>
4
: to engage in a rally
Now that is from Webster, not your thought, but here is another clue for you, it is a transitive verb not a noun in the context in which it was used.
There was indeed an arousal to action and a boat load of people were awakened in the night to fight for 2a rights. And here is another clue for you that you can't seem to comprehend "we" were a part of it, you, myself and a hell of a lot of other folks.
Now since you seem more than hellbent over carrying it on, something I am always willing to do, instead of blathering along on the board here until Doc or one of the admins send me a PM and tell me to hush, why don't we just have a cup of coffee? I am free today for a bit, but need to work on the stuff for Olivette since I have the free time. Understand going into it that your thought of a nice in person type is misguided, I do not change and you may not find it a pleasant event and I have no intention of changing for you so you feel better.
Oh, and in case you are wondering, NO I will not be changing for the Olivette council meeting either, I have no desire to ask them politely for our rights that does not seem to work to well.
Want to chat? Shoot a PM of a time and place in the next couple of hours and I will haul myself up to troy and buy you a beverage.
I knew you were coming damn it!
Sorry Doc, but I am Jacked for bear over this crap and this BS of word games is so damn wanting at best.
I consider his belittling of the effort insulting at the very least and while as unpopular as it may be, when I see something I think is stupid I call it that.
Tony4310
Regular Member
I was called a teenager on the Olivette OC ban discussion lmao.....
Yeah, that kiki person really defined it too, because they feel they want to "rage on" they think everyone else will.
Classic anti-gunner reasoning.
Life moves on folks and just because you do not get the front parking place does not mean you want to shoot them. I frankly have never had a disagreement at all over a parking place. I hit the lot, scope an isle, turn and park in the first slot. I do not wait for someone to pull out, I do not drive endlessly, I turn and I park. If it is raining, I let my lovely maiden out at the door and then park.
As stupid as people can be, I may wonder why they remain alive, however that does not equate to any type of desire to kill them.
Tony4310
Regular Member
When I do get irritated. I simply put my firearm away and cool down. Now I have never raged over a parking spot either. I might get annoyed,but never raged. I've learned quickly that self control is a big factor in carrying a fire arm. I let those people use name calling as an argument because it just shows they have no argument to use.
mspgunner
Regular Member
A problem there?
I and one other are called big fat old whire guys.. some thing like that!
I am a caucasian.......
lincomores
Regular Member
I don't require any congrats on anything.
As I've repeatedly stated, it was a win for 2a...
And, as I've repeatedly stated, any and all effort was greatly appreciated...I should count up how many times I said that.
As to hi-jacking the thread...yep, it tracked somewhat off...threads do that. I'll gladly give it back.
lincomores
Regular Member
Carry on pal...I don't require a lesson from the likes of you on vocabulary or context.
As to meeting with you? Are you kidding me?
I've met way too many of your type over the years. You're all the same and I'm not in the least impressed.
Besides, I would never get that time back now would I?
So, as it was suggested...I'll kindly get back to making a difference and you can certainly do whatever it is you think you're doing.
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