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Thread: Las Cruces Parks Changes Signs To Comply With State Law

  1. #1
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    Las Cruces Parks Changes Signs To Comply With State Law

    http://www.practicaltacticaltraining...ith-state-law/

    Short version of the story: I saw a sign prohibiting firearms in a park in Las Cruces. I was concerned that this sign might be used to harass open carriers, so I worked with the city parks staff to resolve the dispute. After conferring with the city's legal staff, the sign in question was changed to comply with the state constitution's preemption of gun laws.

    Please let me know if there are any other signs prohibiting weapons on any other city facilities so we can work with them to get them taken down or modified to comply with state law.

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    Good job. Earlier this year I saw a similar sign in the park where Picacho crosses the river. I just ignored it knowing it had no legal standing but it'd be a good idea to go back and see if it's still up.

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    Good for you, Practical. Glad you're around to set them straight.

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    nice job!

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    That's Great

    Thanks much.

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    Now if someone in Ruidoso could fight the mayor who thinks he can ban guns in all city buildings:

    http://www.ruidosonews.com/ci_186459...ce=most_viewed

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    The Ruidoso Mayor's legal theory is based on these two statutes:

    Under Section 3-11-4, the powers of the mayor as chief executive officer, the mayor "shall exercise, within the municipality, powers conferred upon sheriffs of counties to suppress disorders and keep the peace."

    Under Section 30-14-4, wrongful use of public property consists in part of, "Any person occupying or using public property under the authority of a permit shall submit to a search for firearms or other weapons and surrender any firearms or other weapons to any peace officer, who has jurisdiction, upon request."

    3-11-4: He does have a pretty good argument to meet the definition of peace officer in 30-1-12. Sounds like he has LEOSA privileges, too. I guess I should run for mayor

    30-14-4: It says that people who have a permit to use public property must submit to a search and surrender firearms to a peace officer. Somebody visiting a city building does not have a permit to occupy or use the property, so strike one. A sign outright prohibiting firearms is not a request for surrender, strike two. And, even if the mayor (or an authorized agent of the mayor) stood at the door and requested surrender, the mayor or his agent would have to take physical possession of the firearm for the duration of the event, not tell the gun owner to take it to his car, strike three. The mayor of Ruidoso is out.

    And, this is all assuming that the mayor is not prohibited by Article II, Section 6 from enacting such a policy. Strike the fourth.

    If I lived in Ruidoso, I'd be all over this buffoon messing his plans up.

    Anybody here from Ruidoso?

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    I think this quote from the linked article is most pertinent, and the last part sums it up in black and white. I hope the mayor goes down in flames and his re-election hopes are dashed. He's an idiot.

    "However, part of the New Mexico State Constitution seems to contradict that authority.

    New Mexico Constitution Article II, Section 6, reads that, "No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms." "

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    Already Being Worked

    Quote Originally Posted by castiel View Post
    Now if someone in Ruidoso could fight the mayor who thinks he can ban guns in all city buildings:

    http://www.ruidosonews.com/ci_186459...ce=most_viewed
    We're looking into this. It's a crystal clear violation of our Constitutional preemption provision.

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    Good job!
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveaikens View Post
    We're looking into this. It's a crystal clear violation of our Constitutional preemption provision.

    Hey Steve how about seeing if you can get the CCW legislation changed so that I Non US Citizen can get a New Mexico CCW I'm a permanent Resident and would like to conceal carry
    A gun Owner Is A Citizen
    Anyone Else is a Subject

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    Quote Originally Posted by RogueAussie View Post
    Hey Steve how about seeing if you can get the CCW legislation changed so that I Non US Citizen can get a New Mexico CCW I'm a permanent Resident and would like to conceal carry
    I have seen you mention this issue before. Not to hijack the thread, but according to the CC act:

    29-19-4. Applicant qualifications.
    A. The department shall issue a concealed handgun license to an applicant who:
    (1) is a citizen of the United States;


    ...the first requirement is US citizenship. Have you considered becoming a citizen? I can almost guarantee you that by going through that process you will be able to apply for a permit quicker than trying to get the statutes changed. I do not see that happening, personally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AH.74 View Post
    I have seen you mention this issue before. Not to hijack the thread, but according to the CC act:

    29-19-4. Applicant qualifications.
    A. The department shall issue a concealed handgun license to an applicant who:
    (1) is a citizen of the United States;


    ...the first requirement is US citizenship. Have you considered becoming a citizen? I can almost guarantee you that by going through that process you will be able to apply for a permit quicker than trying to get the statutes changed. I do not see that happening, personally.
    Yes I have and at the moment the wife and I do not have the 700 dollars to start the paper work but some time next year I will start the paperwork. Seeing that we have friend in other states that are not OC friendly I'd like to conceal carry
    A gun Owner Is A Citizen
    Anyone Else is a Subject

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    No Firearms, Los Lunas Open Space

    Hello all

    I live in Los Lunas and have been bothered for some time by the sign on 'El Cerro de Los Lunas", part of Los Lunas Open Space, prohibiting firearms.

    Inspired by PracticalTactical's success in Las Cruces I emailed our Director of Parks & Recreaction pointing out the state preemption clause in out State Constitution. Hopefully he will confer with other village officials and ultimately change this.

    I sent the email Wednesday morning (Aug 17th) and have not yet received a response. When I do (if I do) receive a response I'll let you all know.

    Ray

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    Quote Originally Posted by nm_ray View Post
    Hello all

    I live in Los Lunas and have been bothered for some time by the sign on 'El Cerro de Los Lunas", part of Los Lunas Open Space, prohibiting firearms.

    Inspired by PracticalTactical's success in Las Cruces I emailed our Director of Parks & Recreaction pointing out the state preemption clause in out State Constitution. Hopefully he will confer with other village officials and ultimately change this.

    I sent the email Wednesday morning (Aug 17th) and have not yet received a response. When I do (if I do) receive a response I'll let you all know.

    Ray
    Awesome, let's hope it changes without having to take legal action. Also know that between now and when it changes, the sign is totally meaningless. Plus, if they harass somebody carrying past their illegal sign, the person is likely to receive plenty of $$$$$ for their trouble. If Los Lunas decides to be buttheads and not change the sign, remind them of the big costs of harassing legally-carrying gun owners in New Mexico after St. Johns vs. Alamogordo. That might change their 'tood.

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    Alamogordo is no wiser

    Reading the FAQs for the City of Alamogordo's Bonito Lake -- "No firearms allowed". Slow learners?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nm_ray View Post
    Hello all

    I live in Los Lunas and have been bothered for some time by the sign on 'El Cerro de Los Lunas", part of Los Lunas Open Space, prohibiting firearms.

    Inspired by PracticalTactical's success in Las Cruces I emailed our Director of Parks & Recreaction pointing out the state preemption clause in out State Constitution. Hopefully he will confer with other village officials and ultimately change this.

    I sent the email Wednesday morning (Aug 17th) and have not yet received a response. When I do (if I do) receive a response I'll let you all know.

    Ray
    Today I received a reply from our Director of Parks and Recreation. Sounds like pretty good news as this is what I was hoping he would do. I would think the Village legal staff would give the answer we want.

    ---------------------------------
    Dear Mr. nm_ray,

    RE: Received email in regards to the El Cerro De Los Lunas Preserve “Rules and Regulation - Discharging or carrying firearms, crossbows, fireworks, explosives or projectile weapons of any kind are not permitted. This includes paintball, BB, pellet, air, and blow guns; rockets, crossbows, longbows and slingshots.

    I apologize for missing you today and understand the concern you have with the wording and meaning of this ordinance.

    We are reviewing this item and will respond when more information becomes available. Our time frame should be by the end of this week.

    Thanks for bring this to our attention and a response will come from our legal staff soon.

    Sincerely,

    ---------------------------------

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    Great job yall. Im not in NM but I go there a lot because I live in Odessa.
    I was planning a trip to Ruidoso in the near future. I think I will call the Mayors office and let him know how I feel about him violating NM's preemption of gun laws. I know several people around he who visit Ruidoso often and I will make sure they know about the issue as well.

  19. #19
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    Hello all
    If you recall back in August I emailed our director of parks regarding their signage prohibiting firearms on our open space. I have received a response - sounds pretty good.


    "We recognize there is an error in our terminology and/or choice of wording in our ordinance. This language was copied from the existing Village of Los Lunas municipal ordinance that was created in 1982; laws have changed since then. This department and legal staff have no problem with changing this sign and the ordinance to meet the current law.

    This department supports the state constitution and understands every person is entitled to their theories and interpretations of law but acknowledge this was an oversight in its inception. Our staff is working to follow the process in making the appropriate changes to our existing municipal ordinances and should see those results in a couple of months. For right now, we are ordering the new replacement signs and hope to have them installed in a couple of months."

    If you have signs in your municipality prohibiting firearms in violation of our state constitution let your municipal officials know about it, it might just be that simple. I realize of course that this will not always be the case, but what the heck, give it a shot!!

    nm_ray


    Quote Originally Posted by nm_ray View Post
    Hello all

    I live in Los Lunas and have been bothered for some time by the sign on 'El Cerro de Los Lunas", part of Los Lunas Open Space, prohibiting firearms.

    Inspired by PracticalTactical's success in Las Cruces I emailed our Director of Parks & Recreaction pointing out the state preemption clause in out State Constitution. Hopefully he will confer with other village officials and ultimately change this.

    I sent the email Wednesday morning (Aug 17th) and have not yet received a response. When I do (if I do) receive a response I'll let you all know.

    Ray

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