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Where Did You Carry Today And How Did It Go

FoxtrotDelta

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Messages
15
Location
VA Beach, VA
OC in Springfield area

I regularly open carry in the Aurora and Springfield areas. I have never had any big issues. I have found that if I am confronted by LEOs that even tho me providing ID and them securing my sidearm is not required (or lawful) unless they have probable cause it is usually easier and more effeciant. Yes I could school them on local and state laws. But doing so turns a 1-2 min stop into a 10-20 min stop. Today I carried in Basspro, AutoZone, and Wal-Mart. only got a few doubletakes at wal-mart.
 

Freedom 1st

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
95
Location
south central MO, USA
Well in all honesty I am not sure how to go about all of that. I have OCed for about a year now, and this has all recently happened so I am new to this side of Ocing... Also due to the fact that all but one officer has been professional and polite about the encounters I have not worried about it to much. They get a call they still need to respond to the call a check things out. As long as they do not get ignorant or try to bully me then I am fine with them doing their jobs. There is one officer that I have decided the next time I have an encounter with him then I will most likely be writing a letter to the Chief about his handling of our encounters ( as well as taking him the recordings that were taken at the time)

Also I am not exactly clear on what my rights are during a stop.... The research I have done shows many different ways to handle a stop, but all seem to be contrary to the other... I know that I have to show ID if requested, and on the last stop I asked if I was being detained and the ooficer said I was for the time being until they figured out what was going on. However I read into it and it looks like I can not be detained without probable cause, so I really do not know. Any advice for me Grapeshot? Or any from anyone else...especially those in MO in this area? I am more than willing to learn and become a better OCer and ambassador for the OC community.

First off it would be my advice not to write a letter to the chief. At best, it might recieve a chuckle before it is pitched to the trash can IMHO. Go to the station and file a formal complaint.

You are correct there are many ways to handle a stop, you have to decide the way that best suits you. And I will not pretend to be the all knowing expert, as you have 4 more stops from LE than I have and I have been OCing for a couple years. Hell I barely get a look, and like it that way.

Couple things I would like to mention though. There is no law requiring you to ID. If you are doing so because feel you are obligated by law to do so, your information is incorrect.

You are correct the police need probable cause to detain you. As far as I am concerned they should have probable cause before they even make the stop. To my knowledge a call from someone to report a citizen engaging in a perfectly legal activity, does not fit the bill for probable cause.

You sound like a intelligent guy. The best advice I can give you is to read. Go back pages and pages on this site. Read as many threads as you can stand to read. When I first found opencarry.org I treated the Mo.section (at least) like a good book that I was incapable of putting down. There is a wealth of information here, you will learn, you will become informed and then you will know how to handle a stop that is the correct way for you.
 
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woodja72

New member
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
5
Location
Richland Mo
First off, why would you have any issue giving your ID to a police officer when asked? If you are not doing anything wrong then where is the harm. I would think that if an officer is replying to a MWG call, that would be probable cause to do what makes the officer feel safe, if that means asking you for your gun, where is the harm? I guess I just don't understand where all the issues are with supporting our law enforcement personnel in their job which is one of the most dangerous jobs there is around here. If I am misunderstanding what people are saying then I appologize but If I didn't, then lighten up, it is for the safety of the LEOs and is not a big inconvienence to make them feel safer.

I do have an issue with the LEOs mistreating someones property, there was no reason to drop the mag in the grass and I would hope that they appologized. James, as far as the one officer being unprofessional, I hope you get him.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
First off, why would you have any issue giving your ID to a police officer when asked? If you are not doing anything wrong then where is the harm. I would think that if an officer is replying to a MWG call, that would be probable cause to do what makes the officer feel safe, if that means asking you for your gun, where is the harm? I guess I just don't understand where all the issues are with supporting our law enforcement personnel in their job which is one of the most dangerous jobs there is around here. If I am misunderstanding what people are saying then I appologize but If I didn't, then lighten up, it is for the safety of the LEOs and is not a big inconvienence to make them feel safer.

I do have an issue with the LEOs mistreating someones property, there was no reason to drop the mag in the grass and I would hope that they appologized. James, as far as the one officer being unprofessional, I hope you get him.

You misuse the term "probable cause" it does not refer in any way to officer safety.

In the United States criminal court system, probable cause refers to facts or evidence that would make a reasonable person believe that a crime or wrong doing has been, is being, or will be committed.
http://www.probablecause.org/

Suggested reading:

Open Carry as Reasonable Suspicion?
Returning to the issue from the perspective of a law-abiding gun owner, the question I am often asked is whether or not the simple act of openly carrying a properly holstered handgun gives rise to the reasonable suspicion necessary to initiate a Terry Stop. The answer to that question varies somewhat from state to state.
http://monachuslex.com/?p=640&utm_s...ers-guide-to-the-4th-amendment-stop-and-frisk


 
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Griz

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
315
Location
, ,
How happy are ya gonna be if 10 MWAG calls come in, you get stopped 10 times? What about 20? 30? What is your breaking point to refuse identification? We do have rights just the same as the person who called you in. It isn' my job to make someone else comfortable. My job is to be alive to provide for my family. However I do it is my business, as long as I remain within the laws as they are written.
 

HighFlyingA380

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
301
Location
West St. Louis County (Ellisville)
First off, why would you have any issue giving your ID to a police officer when asked? If you are not doing anything wrong then where is the harm. I would think that if an officer is replying to a MWG call, that would be probable cause to do what makes the officer feel safe, if that means asking you for your gun, where is the harm? I guess I just don't understand where all the issues are with supporting our law enforcement personnel in their job which is one of the most dangerous jobs there is around here. If I am misunderstanding what people are saying then I appologize but If I didn't, then lighten up, it is for the safety of the LEOs and is not a big inconvienence to make them feel safer.

I do have an issue with the LEOs mistreating someones property, there was no reason to drop the mag in the grass and I would hope that they appologized. James, as far as the one officer being unprofessional, I hope you get him.
If we all just give in and hand over our ID when requested, then we're just reinforcing to the cops that they can do whatever they want and walk all over us. While on it's face, showing ID doesn't seem like such a big deal, it really is. (Remember that little place called Nazi Germany?)

Also, simply OCing is NOT reasonable suspicion of a crime. Everything you are doing is legal, so there's no reason for them to even stop, let alone dispatch an MWAG call. I just wish our dispatchers and fellow citizens were not so ignorant to the law. At the very least, the dispatcher could tell them that it's legal and to only call back if there is a crime being committed.

Along related lines, I suggest you grab some popcorn and soda, and watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
 

Richieg150

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
432
Location
Show Me State
First off, why would you have any issue giving your ID to a police officer when asked? If you are not doing anything wrong then where is the harm. I would think that if an officer is replying to a MWG call, that would be probable cause to do what makes the officer feel safe, if that means asking you for your gun, where is the harm? I guess I just don't understand where all the issues are with supporting our law enforcement personnel in their job which is one of the most dangerous jobs there is around here. If I am misunderstanding what people are saying then I appologize but If I didn't, then lighten up, it is for the safety of the LEOs and is not a big inconvienence to make them feel safer.

A LEO's authority over a citizen, comes about if the citizen has broke a city ordinance or a state statute. A MWG call, doesnt meet that criteria unless there is an ordinance or statute that has been broken. You dont need or have to surrender your ID unless those circumstances are met, thats why they will ASK you if you have ID, then ASK you if they can see it, then its up to you if you want to surrender it.Why do so many feel the need to say, make the officer FEEL safe. My job or rights dont hindge on a LEO to FEEL safe. If he feels unsafe doing his job, he can alwas get a desk job or another job, where he can FEEL safe.Why would you even think that a LEO has one of the most dangerous jobs? Criminals dont rob, kill, rape, car jack or any number of other things they can do to LEO's.... they do that to citizens. How many murders or assaults or any number of crimes were commited where you live, last year? How many of the victims were LEO's? You are more likely, the be victimized going about your daily life then a LEO going about his job. IF a MWG call makes a LEO FEEL unsafe, and all the LEO's I have spoken to have never had a fellon walking about open carrying a firearm,they are always hid or concealed, they must really FEEL unsafe thinking that everybody around them has a firearn concealed ready to pull out and start shooting.So maybe anytime we are around LEO's we need to raise out hands, or take our shirts of so they can see we dont have any firearms and the they can FEEL safe.
 

wolfgangmob

Regular Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
90
Location
St. Louis, MO / Rolla, MO
First off, I'm new to the board and wanted to say hello. I purchased my first handgun last week after doing more homework than I've ever done for a college-level paper. In the end, I chose a S&W M&P .40.

I've been open-carrying since I purchased the gun and I've had pleasantish mixed reactions.

QuikTrip (Many different locations): A good amount of open carries in the first week. Only two really noteworthy reactions. First, a woman and her kid were at the soft-drink section of the store. The boy very excited said, "Look Mommy, that man's got a gun!" She proceeded to take her child from the store, leaving their drinks on the counter. The second was a biker-type opening the door for me. As he did, he looked down at my hip and noticed the pistol. He smiled and nodded at me as I walked through the door.

Walmart (Liberty): On several occasions, I've opened carried in the store. Only one weird incident occurred. I walked by a cashier entering the store and she panicked asking her co-worker for a walkie-talkie. Nothing came of it.

Lowes (Chillicothe): I walked by a manager on my way to the rest room while he was on the phone with someone. In hushed tones I overheard him talking to someone about a man entering the store with a gun. I spent over an hour in Lowes and nothing came of the encounter.

No Name Gas Station (Tecumseh, NB): After brushing up on Kansas and Nebraska laws (the states I travel to most frequently due to family), I decided to venture an open carry in this little gas station. The lady behind the counter glanced at the gun and didn't say anything about it.

Now that I'm done traveling for a while and am back in Kansas City (North of the River to be specific), I wanted to know what to expect from the LEOs and see if any of you had advice for a first-time gun owner and OC-er.

And you still picked the wrong gun! No, JK, not a bad choice, I had a S&W M&P 40 Compact, sold it recently since I never used it and wanted something else. One thing to watch for is the metal finish isn't very resistant to rust and will spot rust if not lightly oiled every few days or so if carrying it much, if sitting around stored, just a good oiling and it's good for a while.
 

wolfgangmob

Regular Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
90
Location
St. Louis, MO / Rolla, MO
If we all just give in and hand over our ID when requested, then we're just reinforcing to the cops that they can do whatever they want and walk all over us. While on it's face, showing ID doesn't seem like such a big deal, it really is. (Remember that little place called Nazi Germany?)

Also, simply OCing is NOT reasonable suspicion of a crime. Everything you are doing is legal, so there's no reason for them to even stop, let alone dispatch an MWAG call. I just wish our dispatchers and fellow citizens were not so ignorant to the law. At the very least, the dispatcher could tell them that it's legal and to only call back if there is a crime being committed.

Along related lines, I suggest you grab some popcorn and soda, and watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Ah yes, THAT video, good watch that makes a lot of good points, worst part is it's all true!
 

Oramac

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
572
Location
St Louis, Mo
First off, why would you have any issue giving your ID to a police officer when asked? If you are not doing anything wrong then where is the harm. I would think that if an officer is replying to a MWG call, that would be probable cause to do what makes the officer feel safe, if that means asking you for your gun, where is the harm? I guess I just don't understand where all the issues are with supporting our law enforcement personnel in their job which is one of the most dangerous jobs there is around here. If I am misunderstanding what people are saying then I appologize but If I didn't, then lighten up, it is for the safety of the LEOs and is not a big inconvienence to make them feel safer.

I do have an issue with the LEOs mistreating someones property, there was no reason to drop the mag in the grass and I would hope that they appologized. James, as far as the one officer being unprofessional, I hope you get him.

This all falls squarely under the concept of "The Sanction of the Victim". The cops will continue to do this, and can only do it, with the sanction of the victim (i.e. we the OCers).
 

HighFlyingA380

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
301
Location
West St. Louis County (Ellisville)
Please feel free to carry in either of my 2 businesses in Warrensburg, GNC or The Donut Cafe.

I have a cc permit, but of late would rather oc to promote that it is leagal. I am amazed by how few people know that it is legal to OC. Probably because the media won't talk about it.
Did I say welcome yet? Well, WELCOME!!! I stopped by The Donut Cafe this morning, OCing of course. I pulled an all-nighter prepping a speech on 2A and RKBA for today, and I needed a pick-me-up. Excellent donuts. Really fluffy and delicious. Coffee was good too. I'd personally like it stronger, but I'm kinda a freak with my coffee in that way (must come from working at Starbucks). I have to say I'm kinda surprised that there wasn't any "we welcome legal guns" type signs on the door. Perhaps a coming-soon addition? ;) I will definitely be back! (Unfortunately not as often as I'd like, due to me being a broke college student that needs to lose weight. :cuss:)
 

Jim40Cal

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
349
Location
Independence, Missouri, USA
Consentino's Sunfresh Independence

Had to fax a letter today so went in Consentino's Sunfresh in Independence . While there the manager came by an said he had seen people carrying open before but wasn't sure what the corporate policy was. I explained to him it was totally legal in Independence and he said he was aware of that and didn't have a problem with it.
After I got home about 30 minutes later I got a call from the corporate office explaining that some customers had complained just last week and they elected not to allow open carry. I said thats fine as me and my family pass two other stores on the way to his and they have loved our business every since we stopped shopping at Sunfresh....
 

S&W_Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
28
Location
Kansas City
Looks like another company I won't be supporting.

I feel kinda guilty thinking, "Well... if they get robbed, there won't be any sheepdogs to protect them."
 
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Jim40Cal

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
349
Location
Independence, Missouri, USA
Looks like another company I won't be supporting.

I feel kinda guilty thinking, "Well... if they get robbed, there won't be any sheepdogs to protect them."

Thanks. He said three or four people had complained last week. Hell, I got 3 times that many family that have quit shopping there because of there decision. Actually a year or so ago a employee was saved buy a customer with a gun in the parking lot of there store on 23rd & Sterling when he jumped on the car hood of a shoplifter.
 

S&W_Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
28
Location
Kansas City
Thanks. He said three or four people had complained last week. Hell, I got 3 times that many family that have quit shopping there because of there decision. Actually a year or so ago a employee was saved buy a customer with a gun in the parking lot of there store on 23rd & Sterling when he jumped on the car hood of a shoplifter.

I really don't get local companies that don't support OC.

And for those who aren't familiar with the Sheepdog Concept: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW8BZ7pRt28

I, myself, don't know if I'm a sheepdog. To be frank, I'm more disgusted by most of the sheep out there. I despise herd-mentality with a fiery, burning passion. Would I help someone in dire need? Probably... I'm too much of a softie when it comes to people in real need.
 

osmanobma

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
52
Location
Missouri
Kansas City, MO open carry question

hi all,

i will be in Kansas City this weekend (sat,Sun) to go to the Cards vs Royals series. I was wondering if there is anything i need to know about open carry there. like, is it legal. do i need a ccw. what about the surrounding areas, any open carry there.
thanks in advance.

also how do I start a new thread?
 

S&W_Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
28
Location
Kansas City
hi all,

i will be in Kansas City this weekend (sat,Sun) to go to the Cards vs Royals series. I was wondering if there is anything i need to know about open carry there. like, is it legal. do i need a ccw. what about the surrounding areas, any open carry there.
thanks in advance.

also how do I start a new thread?
You can't legally carry concealed or not, at the stadium. Other than that, here's the link to our state on Handgunlaw.us: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/missouri.pdf

In Kansas City proper, you can OC or CC within the limitations mentioned. When traveling between the smaller communities, you need to check with the local city halls.

Personally, I know you can OC in KC and Liberty. You can't OC in Gladstone (which I've been boycotting).
 

Oramac

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
572
Location
St Louis, Mo
You can't legally carry concealed or not, at the stadium.

Thankfully, this is incorrect. If you have a valid MISSOURI CCW permit, you can carry concealed ONLY at the stadium. The handgunlaw PDF doesn't cover Paragraph 2 of the restricted places list. P2 basically says you can carry in the places listed in sub-paragraphs (1) to (17) and it shall not be a crime, however if you are asked to leave you must leave, else it becomes a misdemeanor trespassing charge.

That being said, just because it's legal does not necessarily mean it's smart.

disclaimer: IANAL
 
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Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
OCd at Bass Pro and a frozen yogurt joint (Simply Yo) Saturday evening. No issues. Don't know about any looks; didn't look for them.
 

BOOMcat12B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
70
Location
Missouri
Just got back from a quick trip to the Krogers down the road... No problems at all, however while I was in the store I had a manager come up to me and ask me if I had a license to carry...I told him that according to MO law as well as Rolla law you did not need one to OC...You need one to conceal just not OC. He said ok and thanked me, said he was told to ask, then left. I thanked him bought my water and went about my business... So I hope this is the end of it... I have carried in there quite a few times before, never had a problem and they are the closest store to me so I am hoping they do not go OC unfriendly.... We will see I reckon.
 
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