Free doughnuts anyone?

Metalhead47 · Aug 15, 2011

BigRed said:
i beg to differ with u metalhead. cops can protect people. when a cop drives up to a fight in a patrol car, what happens? most of the time people scatter. what would happen if there wasnt an officer on duty? well ill tell u... a person could be beaten to death. who is there to stop hippy protests(nothing against hippies) that easy get out of control fast? cops(with the exception of a few bad ones) want nothing more than to go home to their families every night(our main job). cops jobs are also to protect and serve? most of the time, people are happy to see the police arrive on scene before things get out of control. if everyone was responsible with a weapon and was prepared to use it, cops would be a little more un-necesarry. but what is more realistic? a police department or expecting citizens to behave and protect their own?

No, they can't. When seconds matter, they're minutes away. Cops breaking up a fight isn't protecting anyone, it's keeping the peace, which IS what they're supposed to do. Same with breaking up a violent protest. Someone comes busting down my door at 2 in the morning, or pulls a knife on me cuz I won't let him off the bus where he wants, no, you CAN'T protect me in those situations.

And no, their job is NOT to "protect & serve," not anymore. Someone will chime in with the legal case that ended that. When's the last time you saw that slogan on a real (not movie) police car?

The point is, everyone IS supposed to be responsible, and carry the tools to defend themselves. Just like they're supposed to put a roof over their heads, food on the table, healthcare and education for their children. These are not the responsibility of government either.

but what is more realistic? a police department or expecting citizens to behave and protect their own?

Again I'm gonna have to defer to Dave on this one... if society and government broke down, and there no long WAS any law enforcement, the citizens WOULD learn to behave and protect their own. It'd be an ugly few years getting to that point, but we've been there before (ie the "old west), we could figure it out again. If there's some Katrina-esqe disaster out here, it's not my neighbors I'm worried about, I know I can keep them at bay... it's the police that concern me.

Bo · Aug 15, 2011

The police CANNOT protect anyone, and they are under no obligation to do so.

Eh, wrong on two counts. The cops CAN protect some, most try very hard to do so, and as for the second contention -- most cops would disagree. Most cops DO feel an obligation to protect the citizens of their community.

The point is, everyone IS supposed to be responsible, and carry the tools to defend themselves. Just like they're supposed to put a roof over their heads, food on the table, healthcare and education for their children. These are not the responsibility of government either.

Agreed. But for those that don't want any assistance from their community's law enforcement personnel, why don't you put signs on your house, your vehicles and perhaps also wear a sign when walking in public areas ("I require NO assistance from my city's/county's/state's/country's Law Enforcement Officers -- I'm fine on my own, thanks!"). That should save some time, and get your cops getting to the folks that may actually need some help, want some help, and -- maybe even -- appreciate some help, from their community servants.

BigRed · Aug 15, 2011

ok metalhead, well what you think of cops is so skewed! i have first hand experience and for example, i have been to calls where i physically got between a man and woman(man with gun) and PROTECTED the woman. the guys gun was on safe and he was so high he didnt know what he was doing. he was tased and arrested.

BigRed · Aug 15, 2011

Bo said:
Eh, wrong on two counts. The cops CAN protect some, most try very hard to do so, and as for the second contention -- most cops would disagree. Most cops DO feel an obligation to protect the citizens of their community.

Agreed. But for those that don't want any assistance from their community's law enforcement personnel, why don't you put signs on your house, your vehicles and perhaps also wear a sign when walking in public areas ("I require NO assistance from my city's/county's/state's/country's Law Enforcement Officers -- I'm fine on my own, thanks!"). That should save some time, and get your cops getting to the folks that may actually need some help, want some help, and -- maybe even -- appreciate some help, from their community servants.

everything u just said is 100% dead on sir!!

amzbrady · Aug 15, 2011

amzbrady said:
I believe society should have law enforcement officers. I also believe law enforcement officers should be held accountable for their actions, and not be held above the law. I believe law enforcement officers should enforce ALL laws, no matter what the law, or how big or little, but I also believe that all the laws need to be reviewed and some either deleted, downgraded, or changed to fit society. I believe police should have to know the law AND what the publics rights are. I dont think there should be ANY paid leave if an officer is accused of a crime or is under investigation. I believe we should stop trying to rehabilitate criminals, and start punishing them. I believe there should be no "getting off on good behavior". You start off, "off on good behavior". Criminals should do the time they have been sentenced. We as tax payers should not have to support prisoners who get life sentences and are sentenced guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, with multiple witnesses seeing the crime happen, esp those who are sentenced double life terms, they should be executed. Prisoners who have been cleared of charges by DNA should be let out of prison and the judge and prosecuting attorney should have to serve the same sentence they unjustly sent the prisoner to prison for. Prisoners should not get TV, visits, internet, reading material, medical, and cigarettes. They should get just enough food to sustain them until they have finished serving their time. All cells should be solitary confinement, they will not want to go back under those conditions. Twould be nice to see some honesty, responsibility, and politeness in this country.

But....Thats just what I believe. I believe it is now time, for those who dont believe the same way I do to chime in...

BigRed said:
i couldnt agree more

I forgot to mention. I dont think anyone who has served their time in prison has paid their dues, they have just served the time they were sentenced. I think they need to prove themselfs in society. Living in prison with other criminals does not mean you are rehabilitated.

jt59 · Aug 15, 2011

amzbrady said:
I forgot to mention. I dont think anyone who has served their time in prison has paid their dues, they have just served the time they were sentenced. I think they need to prove themselfs in society. Living in prison with other criminals does not mean you are rehabilitated.

.....as in repairations?..... paid in full.

BigDave · Aug 15, 2011

WOW all of these because of a free donut in remembrance of a fallen Officer!

View attachment 6645

A new time low for some.

Dave_pro2a · Aug 15, 2011

Bo said:
Most cops DO feel an obligation to protect the citizens of their community.

Oh great, an "I feel" statement. [/end argument]

Bo · Aug 15, 2011

Yep, that's right, "BigDave." Kinda sad in a way that you'll never know what it's like to be be part of something that's bigger than one person, part of something that stands for something, part of something where you can count on those you work alongside, share a camaraderie that few will ever know, and come home from work every day knowing that you've made a difference, helped people and served your community.

Dave_pro2a · Aug 15, 2011

amzbrady said:
I forgot to mention. I dont think anyone who has served their time in prison has paid their dues, they have just served the time they were sentenced. I think they need to prove themselfs in society. Living in prison with other criminals does not mean you are rehabilitated.

But do they, upon serving their full sentence, once again become full citizens able to enjoy their inalienable Rights. That is the question.

If your answer is no, then you place your own ability to exercise your inalienable Rights at risk.

amzbrady · Aug 15, 2011

Dave_pro2a said:
But do they, upon serving their full sentence, once again become full citizens able to enjoy their inalienable Rights. That is the question.

If your answer is no, then you place your own ability to exercise your inalienable Rights at risk.

I think there should be an amount of time equal to their sentence in prison, like an extension to their sentence, that they have to be able to coexist in society before they become full citizens and have their rights returned to them. Some things that are felonies should be downgraded to misdemeaners. Time to start emptying the prisons and making so that NO ONE wants to go in...

ManInBlack · Aug 15, 2011

BigRed said:
u would be shocked to find out just how difficult it is to think straight when u are being held at gunpoint.

I can only imagine it must be as difficult as it apparently is for you to use halfway decent spelling and grammar.

You can keep believing in the benevolence and protectiveness of the almighty State, if you please. Similarly, hundreds of thousands of children this year will continue believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. You sir, are in good company.

/thread

ManInBlack · Aug 15, 2011

Bo said:
Eh, wrong on two counts. The cops CAN protect some, most try very hard to do so, and as for the second contention -- most cops would disagree. Most cops DO feel an obligation to protect the citizens of their community.

What you may think they "feel" is totally irrelevant. The SCOTUS has ruled that they are under no legal obligation to protect anyone, and time and again, we have seen them take advantage of that fact.

Agreed. But for those that don't want any assistance from their community's law enforcement personnel, why don't you put signs on your house, your vehicles and perhaps also wear a sign when walking in public areas ("I require NO assistance from my city's/county's/state's/country's Law Enforcement Officers -- I'm fine on my own, thanks!"). That should save some time, and get your cops getting to the folks that may actually need some help, want some help, and -- maybe even -- appreciate some help, from their community servants.

Sure, as soon as you quit using the government as your hired mugger to put a gun to our heads and extort money from us to pay them. Logic isn't your strong suit, is it?

amzbrady · Aug 15, 2011

Bo said:
Yep, that's right, "BigDave." Kinda sad in a way that you'll never know what it's like to be be part of something that's bigger than one person, part of something that stands for something, part of something where you can count on those you work alongside, share a camaraderie that few will ever know, and come home from work every day knowing that you've made a difference, helped people and served your community.

The camaraderie you speak of? Is that where you look the other way, or laugh, or even join in when you know one of your brothers are doing something wrong? I noticed alot of serving the community, in fact I have noticed that police cars do not say "To protect and serve" the ones here now say "serving the community". Question is what exactly are they serving?

BigDave · Aug 15, 2011

BigDave said:
WOW all of these because of a free donut in remembrance of a fallen Officer!

View attachment 6645

A new time low for some.

Bo said:
Yep, that's right, "BigDave." Kinda sad in a way that you'll never know what it's like to be be part of something that's bigger than one person, part of something that stands for something, part of something where you can count on those you work alongside, share a camaraderie that few will ever know, and come home from work every day knowing that you've made a difference, helped people and served your community.

Bo, you got it completely wrong.
I have experienced and lived where you had to depend upon those with you for your safety for 17 years from the U.S. Army, Nuclear Security at Hanford, Yakima Sheriffs Office and Washington State Penn, so do I have an issue with a remembrance of a fallen officer, NO Not At All, but it is clear we have those in here that have issues that all law enforcement are bad and will continue to push their negative law enforcement agenda at every opportunity they can.

Is there some in law enforcement that are bad, yes as with any other profession around and the good out weigh the bad but many only remember the bad.

jt59 · Aug 15, 2011

BigDave said:
<snip> Is there some in law enforcement that are bad, yes as with any other profession around and the good out weigh the bad but many only remember the bad.

Apparently this is true....

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-oakland/should-the-police-be-the-only-ones-armed-public-1

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/54162036

This isn't rocket science, but a blond walked into Cabella's and was looking at a thermos. One of the Cabella folks asked if she had any questions and she said, "yes"...when I put hot drinks into the thermos they stay hot, when I put cold drinks in the thermos, they stay cold. My question is "how does it know?"

When any of us come into contact with an officer (that we haven't called)...... it often enough, is at least an unwanted intrusion and at worst a structured "consensual" contact....and a failed attitude test....just ask Tom Brewster.

I've been stranded on the side of the road several times, wife and kids in tow, mucho traffic and watched as a LEO rolled on past without even thinking about stopping for aid (that would be the "serving community" part).....

I'm not overly negative on officers, I just haven't had much to show me how to reliably know who's going to be hot and who's going to be cold......and as for only "remembering the bad"...I read this recently, that pretty well sums it up for me....

"knowledge is the understanding that fire burns.....wisdom, is remembering the blister"

DocWalker · Aug 15, 2011

Wow is all I have to say about this thread...

1. I'm typically pro-cop as long as they are not like the one in Ohio that is a proctologists dream. But seriously the whole doughnut thing is way too cheesy for doing a remembrance event.

2. Speaking of Cheese; was the call that involved a cheese argument including "government cheese" and if so did someone call the feds? Just saying.....

3. I would submit the worst part about being a cop is wearing the vest all day especially when it is hot outside. Hot, wet, and stinky after a shift...yuck

4. I submit that a well informed LEO that is polite and non-intrusive is welcome. Unfortunately there have been a lot of bad apples lately around the USA and if we would see more reaction to these apples from the agency, union, and their boss's then maybe the public would buy more doughnuts.

Metalhead47 · Aug 15, 2011

Bo said:
Eh, wrong on two counts. The cops CAN protect some, most try very hard to do so, and as for the second contention -- most cops would disagree. Most cops DO feel an obligation to protect the citizens of their community.

FEEL is one thing. SCOTUS has agreed that they have no legal obligation to protect anyone. Those that the cops CAN protect is such a minute number it's not even relevant, since the cops can only protect when they are actually present, and criminals generally do not commit crimes, especially violent ones, in the presence of police.

Agreed. But for those that don't want any assistance from their community's law enforcement personnel, why don't you put signs on your house, your vehicles and perhaps also wear a sign when walking in public areas ("I require NO assistance from my city's/county's/state's/country's Law Enforcement Officers -- I'm fine on my own, thanks!").

I do. It's called a Big Freakin Gun. I stand a much better chance of surviving a violent encounter with one of those, than waiting on 911...

BigRed said:
ok metalhead, well what you think of cops is so skewed! i have first hand experience and for example, i have been to calls where i physically got between a man and woman(man with gun) and PROTECTED the woman. the guys gun was on safe and he was so high he didnt know what he was doing. he was tased and arrested.

I'm not nearly as anti-cop as I may sound in this thread (as per SVG, "I'm not anti-cop I'm just pro-citizen."). I personally have never had a negative encounter with the police. But I've learned just enough from the first-hand experiences on here, as well as research elsewhere, to be cautious when I DO have an encounter, since as that other feller said, I don't know if the cop is hot or cold. I will assume until he demonstrates otherwise that he's one of the good ones, but I will no longer expect it, and I will have my faculties about to (verbally) defend myself.

massivedesign · Aug 15, 2011

I have a question that probably pertains to this thread more than 99% of the thread crapping here...

DID ANYBODY GO GET SOME FREE DOUGHNUTS??!!!?

amzbrady · Aug 15, 2011

Maybe it's all in the odds. You take a the public as a whole, and a percentage will be good people, and a percentage will be criminals. Police are no different, as they are made up of the public, just given a badge and issued a gun, then given the authority so that no matter if they are good cops or criminal cops they dont have to worry as much about paying the consequence.

Free doughnuts anyone?

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