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Livonia PD just pulled me over for OC'ing on motorcycle???

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
Was on my motorcycle OC'ing and a Livonia marked police car got behind me followed me for a mile or soand a few turns then lit me up. I pulled over and he got out and asked me for my ID I said I was
carrying and was a bit hesitant to reach for my ID cause it was on the same side as my gun. He told me that was the reason he pulled me over (gun showing) and he already knew that I had a CPL. Then he
proceeds to tell me that I was open carrying and that my gun was in a holster and that partially conceals my gun so I was in violation of open carrying laws??? I played dumb like my shirt must a blew up
showing my gun I didn't want to argue with him but I was baffled I didn't know what to say anyway??!! He was a patrol supervisor it said on his car. He was not very disrespectful took my and got back in his
car for about 2 minutes he got out gave me my I'd and asked if I had anywhere to put my gun on my
bike and I just pulled my shirt over my gun and said I would be good like this. Told him thanks for not
jamming me up on anything and we were both on r way.

He did say something about groups OC'ing and said I should be aware of the OC'ing and CC'Ing laws.
Did I do something wrong?
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
You have a CPL and you were OCing on your vehicle. That is legal in MI, correct? Is there some law about holstered weapons being considered concealed? I see no reason why he should have pulled you over and asked for anything. Bad stop.
 
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T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
He said gun was holster...

He knew before he pulled me over I had a CPL so he said the reason for the stop was OC'ing illegally
because gun was in a holster partially concealing the gun? He even pointed to his gun and his holster and said that he would also be in violation of OC'ing laws? So how r u supposed to OC hold it in your hand?! By a string?
 
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TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
You need a CPL (debatable, but we welcome a test case if you can afford 5 years behind bars and the defense fees) to OC on a motorcycle in MI. Assuming you have a CPL you violated no laws. Might want to FOIA the dispatch audio -- your call.
 

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
He even pointed to his gun and his holster and said that he would also be in violation of OC'ing laws?

Good lord Jesus please help this country.
 

TheSzerdi

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
287
Location
Melvindale, Michigan, USA
This LEO was obviously confused on some point. Perhaps due to the way transport law is worded in that it doesn't provide for OC or CC, but just specifies "in a vehicle." You were perfectly legal. Did you get an audio recording?
 

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
HTML:
This LEO was obviously confused on some point. Perhaps due to the way transport law is worded in that it doesn't provide for OC or CC, but just specifies "in a vehicle." You were perfectly legal. Did you get an audio recording?

No audio recording but I have learned my lesson next time I OC I will have a recorder going.
 

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
Also weird...

He never asked me for my insurance or registration for my motorcycle???

He NEVER even asked for my CPL? Weird!

Just my drivers license?
 
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Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Well The MOC board has been giving a bit of hell to the LPD and some city council members, so I suspect it's payback. He was just harassing you. A gun in a visible holster is not concealed. I hope to god he knows that and was, like I suspect, F'ing with you.

I guess I would contact the Chief and ask him if he is telling his officers that a gun in a visible holster is concealed (I doubt it.). See what he says, then tell him your story and ask him to inform his officers otherwise.
 

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
Well The MOC board has been giving a bit of hell to the LPD and some city council members, so I suspect it's payback. He was just harassing you. A gun in a visible holster is not concealed. I hope to god he knows that and was, like I suspect, F'ing with you.

I guess I would contact the Chief and ask him if he is telling his officers that a gun in a visible holster is concealed (I doubt it.). See what he says, then tell him your story and ask him to inform his officers otherwise.

Should I call the chief or should I go to the station?
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
There are so many things wrong with the stop that I dont know where to begin.

You did NOTHING wrong. The officer doesnt know a thing about gun laws apparently. My guess is that he was briefed briefly about OC. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Your case is my point.

You can OC on a motorcycle, you need a CPL, you don't have to conceal, and there are no "OC laws" so to speak.

I agree, the audio would have been nice.
 

scot623

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,421
Location
Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
Chief Stevenson,

I would like to relay to you an incident that happened in your city today. It appears your officers may need some additional training on open carry and concealed carry laws. This was taken from one of our forums. Please forgive any spelling or grammar errors.

"Was on my motorcycle OC'ing and a Livonia marked police car got behind me followed me for a mile or so and a few turns then lit me up. I pulled over and he got out and asked me for my ID I said I was carrying and was a bit hesitant to reach for my ID cause it was on the same side as my gun. He told me that was the reason he pulled me over (gun showing) and he already knew that I had a CPL. Then he proceeds to tell me that I was open carrying and that my gun was in a holster and that partially conceals my gun so I was in violation of open carrying laws??? I played dumb like my shirt must a blew up
showing my gun I didn't want to argue with him but I was baffled I didn't know what to say anyway??!! He was a patrol supervisor it said on his car. He was not very disrespectful took my and got back in his car for about 2 minutes he got out gave me my I'd and asked if I had anywhere to put my gun on my bike and I just pulled my shirt over my gun and said I would be good like this. Told him thanks for not jamming me up on anything and we were both on r way.

He did say something about groups OC'ing and said I should be aware of the OC'ing and CC'Ing laws.
Did I do something wrong?

He knew before he pulled me over I had a CPL so he said the reason for the stop was OC'ing illegally because gun was in a holster partially concealing the gun? He even pointed to his gun and his holster and said that he would also be in violation of OC'ing laws? So how r u supposed to OC hold it in your hand?! By a string?"

As I am sure you are aware, a person who possesses a CPL may open carry or conceal carry in all places not listed in MCL 28.425o. A person who possesses a valid CPL may also open or conceal carry while on a motorcycle. Absent any other valid reason for pulling this gentleman over, this was an illegal stop. The gentleman in question may be contacting you in regards to this incident.

If your officers have not reviewed MSP Legal Update 86, it is a good refresher on open carry and how MCL 28.425o and 750.234d work together. If my organization can be of any assistance to the LPD with regard to open carry and applicable laws, please feel free to contact me. We would be happy to help you craft a current training manual on open carry.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

I have appreciated your professionalism during our correspondence in the past. I am sure you will look in this situation with the same level of professionalism I have come to know. Any update you can provide me after your investigation will be very much appreciated.

Thank you.

--
Rob Harris
Vice President
Michigan Open Carry Inc.
 

scot623

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,421
Location
Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
In a situation like that, I think it is best to ask for a citation that you can take to court. I've done that before and the officer was completely dumbfounded because I squarely called him on his bluff. My incident was a MWAG call because I was open carrying eating dinner in a restaurant at dinnertime. He was going to keep arguing with me until I told him to just a citation for the law he thought I was violating. That ended the argument.

A member of MOC was in the exact situation you describe. He was given a citation for "miscellaneous CPL violation". Try to find that MCL or Code in Warren's ordinances. When his lawyer showed up in court, the officer couldn't utter a word when the prosecutor asked him to explain the ticket. Ticket dismissed. Still cost our guy a couple hundred bucks for the lawyer. I have no doubt it would have been tossed even if he didn't hire an attorney, but would you risk it?
 

maybeifulucky

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
47
Location
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
Livonia PD

Go to the station and tell them you want to file a "formal complaint". Internal affairs has to investigate and send you a report of their findings. A formal complaint stays in the officers file for five years and it doesn't matter what the out come of the investigation is.

good luck
 
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