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Thread: Floating Libertarians?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Floating Libertarians?

    This thing is packed with irony. The epitome of Social Constructionism. But I suppose this is the Libertarian (tea party?) 'ideal', a society without government intrusion.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...140840896.html

    "Thiel made news earlier this year for putting a portion of his $1.5 billion fortune into an initiative to encourage entrepreneurs to skip college."

    Apparently it is the Libertarian agenda to assure that individuals are not educated, but merely Capitalists. Since Capitalism is working so well here in America.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    This thing is packed with irony. The epitome of Social Constructionism. But I suppose this is the Libertarian (tea party?) 'ideal', a society without government intrusion.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...140840896.html

    "Thiel made news earlier this year for putting a portion of his $1.5 billion fortune into an initiative to encourage entrepreneurs to skip college."

    Apparently it is the Libertarian agenda to assure that individuals are not educated, but merely Capitalists. Since Capitalism is working so well here in America.
    Uh....first we don't have capitalism in this country and second, why must you continue to rip on something that you don't seem to know anything about. I'm talking about libertarianism. You're just miss characterizing it with oft-parroted talking points. Oh, and don't get libertarians and the tea party mixed up. They aren't interchangable. There are some libertarians in the tea party but there are other groups within it that libertarians have big problems with....like Neocons.

    As for the link in the OP I think this is a great idea. If it takes off and I could get a job out there I'd try it out myself.

    ETA: And I thought PayPal was anti-gun?
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 08-16-2011 at 03:15 PM.
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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Uh....first we don't have capitalism in this country and second, why must you continue to rip on something that you don't seem to know anything about. I'm talking about libertarianism. You're just miss characterizing it with oft-parroted talking points. Oh, and don't get libertarians and the tea party mixed up. They aren't interchangable. There are some libertarians in the tea party but there are other groups within it that libertarians have big problems with....like Neocons.

    As for the link in the OP I think this is a great idea. If it takes off and I could get a job out there I'd try it out myself.

    ETA: And I thought PayPal was anti-gun?
    Of course we don't have Capitalism in this Country *rolls eyes*. Let me guess, we are a Socialist Country? No, wait, we are a Republic, as if that has anything to do with any of the two isms I offered up.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Of course we don't have Capitalism in this Country *rolls eyes*. Let me guess, we are a Socialist Country? No, wait, we are a Republic, as if that has anything to do with any of the two isms I offered up.
    Actually, he's correct, and if you'd spend more time educating yourself instead of mindlessly repeating the same libtarded, statist talking points that you sucked up from Rachel "Mad Cow" Maddow, you would know that. Free market capitalism implies free markets. Anyone with two open eyes and a brain can plainly see we do not have that in this country. Just the other day, I read an article about the federal government's subsidizing of rural, low-traffic airports, to the tune of thousands of dollars per ticket, largely due to the prodding of Harry Reid and Jay Rockefeller, two good liberal statists, as well as several equally unsavory Republican neo-con hacks.
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 08-16-2011 at 03:26 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Actually, he's correct, and if you'd spend more time educating yourself instead of mindlessly repeating the same libtarded, statist talking points that you sucked up from Rachel "Mad Cow" Maddow, you would know that. Free market capitalism implies free markets. Anyone with two open eyes and a brain can plainly see we do not have that in this country. Just the other day, I read an article about the federal government's subsidizing of rural, low-traffic airports, to the tune of thousands of dollars per ticket, largely due to the prodding of Harry Reid and Jay Rockefeller, two good liberal statists, as well as several equally unsavory Republican neo-con hacks.
    This^
    And:
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Of course we don't have Capitalism in this Country *rolls eyes*. Let me guess, we are a Socialist Country? No, wait, we are a Republic, as if that has anything to do with any of the two isms I offered up.
    I'd say it's more and more leaning towards Fascist Corporatism.
    For your reading pleasure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism
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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Wow... extreme seperation from the "Have's" and "Have Nots"... basically a good idea for a SHTF senario, except I suppose for the fighter jets, UAV's (unmaned areial vehicles), battle ship destroyers, and attack submairnes...LOL....

    I live on a medium sized lake, I am now thinking about fortifying and arming the pontoon boat, anchor down out it the middle with food and fresh water then... "Bring It On"... LOL... especially after Nov. 1 it will be legal to "carry" on a boat... Now.. What to do when the lake turns to ice...LOL

    Ourdoorsman1

    PS: Did I mention...LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Apparently it is the Libertarian agenda to assure that individuals are not educated, but merely Capitalists. Since Capitalism is working so well here in America.
    Educational institutions in the US are a farce, from kindergarten through graduate school.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Since Capitalism is working so well here in America.
    It is for those who know how to work the system.

    I think it's a wonderful idea! Pull your own weight. Open Carry to your heart's content. Daily afternoon swims in the briny blue. Fresh fish...
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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PracticalTactical View Post
    Educational institutions in the US are a farce, from kindergarten through graduate school.
    Alternative? Go at it.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    There is no capitalism in this country. Try being self employed. Anarcho capitalism is the best system and should be instituted.

    Oh and "constructs" are not a bad thing. Gravity is a "construct" that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and isn't natural or even a positive thing. Liberty is the natural state of mankind and "positivism" (especially in government control) it's enemy and we must fight it at every turn and chance we get. Governments come after people, they set them up to protect their liberty, and then the government becomes to big, panders to certain political classes or groups of people, grows tyrannical and eventually falls.

    Positivism is tyranny and leads to atrocities every time. From the ancient Egyptian and Assyrian governments through to the many atrocities in the 20 and 21 century performed by modern ones.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    There is no capitalism in this country. Try being self employed. Anarcho capitalism is the best system and should be instituted.

    Oh and "constructs" are not a bad thing. Gravity is a "construct" that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and isn't natural or even a positive thing. Liberty is the natural state of mankind and "positivism" (especially in government control) it's enemy and we must fight it at every turn and chance we get. Governments come after people, they set them up to protect their liberty, and then the government becomes to big, panders to certain political classes or groups of people, grows tyrannical and eventually falls.

    Positivism is tyranny and leads to atrocities every time. From the ancient Egyptian and Assyrian governments through to the many atrocities in the 20 and 21 century performed by modern ones.
    So, 'Positivism' isn't the issue, rather, the human, or group of individuals constructing the Positivist model, and applying it through a Government structure is the issue...wait, that would mean that the issue is a human issue, not a Government, nor a Positivist issue. Whew, I knew I could get us out of this one.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  12. #12
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Uh....first we don't have capitalism in this country and second, why must you continue to rip on something that you don't seem to know anything about. I'm talking about libertarianism. You're just miss characterizing it with oft-parroted talking points. Oh, and don't get libertarians and the tea party mixed up. They aren't interchangable. There are some libertarians in the tea party but there are other groups within it that libertarians have big problems with....like Neocons.

    As for the link in the OP I think this is a great idea. If it takes off and I could get a job out there I'd try it out myself.

    ETA: And I thought PayPal was anti-gun?
    Gotta be careful of the "Neocon" label. (Didn't we have this discussion?) True Neo-Conservatives of the Buckley mold are now Constitutionalists, like me. The label has been pushed and pulled too much by those who don't understand natural evolutionary migration.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Gotta be careful of the "Neocon" label. (Didn't we have this discussion?) True Neo-Conservatives of the Buckley mold are now Constitutionalists, like me. The label has been pushed and pulled too much by those who don't understand natural evolutionary migration.
    Nope, we've never had the discussion. I use "neocon" in the generally accepted meaning of today. I think it's easier for clarity. This is really no difference than having to define oneself as a "classic liberal" instead of a Liberal.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
    You won't find Buckley in the above aritcle.

    I'm not saying that Neo-conservatives were not as you say at one time just that there is a reason you are calling yourself a constitutionalist instead of a neocon now days right?
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 08-17-2011 at 01:55 PM.
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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Gotta be careful of the "Neocon" label. (Didn't we have this discussion?) True Neo-Conservatives of the Buckley mold are now Constitutionalists, like me. The label has been pushed and pulled too much by those who don't understand natural evolutionary migration.
    That is an interesting use of words, "natural evolutionary migration." What do you mean by this? The Constitutionalist - as example - is a term which represents a specific (or general?) model. The constant linguistic flux, and ideological flux are the 'natural evolutionary migration'? What is there to understand about a "natural evolutionary migration?"
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Alternative? Go at it.
    Home schooling, private schools, vouchers, charter schools, free range parenting....I'm sure there's more.

    There are plenty of alternatives to the current state-run Prussian-model schooling out there.

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    Freedom: Allowing the other guy to do what he wants to, as long it is not hurting someone else.

    Liberty: Doing what you please (again, as long as you are not damaging someone else) when you want to. Not available to people who are not free.

    The mainline Republocrats have no concept of either. It is all about power and control, how much money can they milk out of the public to use as they please to ensure they can be re-elected and continue in power. It's an ego thing, not a freedom thing with them.

    All you have to do is look at the Islamic countries as to what happens when you add religion into this equation. That was the whole reason behind the First Ammendment, It was not written, freedom from religion (or any religious expression). It was freedom OF religion, that is freedom to worship each in his own way, and not be compelled to bow to any particular religion.

    Ever heard of the "blue laws", Where in some places in the US and Canada it is/has been the practice to ban to opening of a retail business on Sunday? You figure it out, if you can. Very minor example of a much deeper problem.
    Last edited by hermannr; 08-17-2011 at 11:09 PM.

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    I wonder if they plan on using "Rearden Metal" in the construction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    The label has been pushed and pulled too much by those who don't understand natural evolutionary migration.
    Haven't all labels? Used to be, throwing tea into a harbor in protest of tyrranical totalitarianism was the height of patriotism! Now the "tea party's" approval rating has fallen below that of atheists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    SNIP Apparently it is the Libertarian agenda to assure that individuals are not educated.
    I don't have any information that the libertarian agenda is to stop people from getting college educations. But, I have come across some freedom-minded folks who think college has become a huge industry more interested in making money.

    The info is available if you hunt for it a little bit. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't; I'm just saying its out there if it interests you.

    Basically you'll find stuff approximately saying:

    A large percentage of young folks start but don't complete college--at large expense to themselves or parents.

    Plenty of young folks who do graduate can't find jobs. A few are comparing it to the Japanese "lost generation" or whatever its called made up of lots of young folks who had to move back in with mom and dad because they couldn't find jobs.

    Educations are costing fortunes. Kids are ending up with large or huge debts compared to their income potential.

    Most of the commentators I've read are pointing fingers at government loans. More easy money just drives up costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    SNIP Anyone...can plainly see we do not have [free markets/capitalism] in this country.
    Agreed.

    First, we have tons of regulation.

    But, I believe, a deeper problem is all the lobbyists asking for government favor and advantage. Subsidies for this, subsidies for that. Regulation to strangle a competitor here, regulation to get some advantage there, regulation to make it too hard for start ups to come into the market. Basically, big business is almost in bed with government.

    You can bet the ethanol industry and the wind industry worked hard (campaign contributions?) to get themselves set up.

    While the rest of us howl about corporate taxes, too many corporations are conniving with legislators and regulators behind the curtain. This could be called corporatism. It isn't capitalism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Most of the commentators I've read are pointing fingers at government loans. More easy money just drives up costs.
    BANG!

    You nailed it. I'm not saying don't take advantage of perks. Just realize, however, the market reacts very rapidly to such perks, that the end price paid by the consumer will remain much the same while the business pockets the profits.

    The government reasons these "perks" drive people to change habits, such as insulating their attic. A few buy off on this dangling worm. Most aren't that stupid.

    I recently outlined a means of leveling the playing field without providing vast numbers of perk-suckers the opportunity to siphon off what our legislators intend for the people.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Buckley was not a Neo; but his writing, especially "Up From Liberalism," gave a new shift to the Moynahan, Lieberman types who fit the classic definition: liberals who moved to the center because of discomfort with what had happened to liberalism in the '60s, and then kept moving to the Right. The "Young Americans for Freedom" group was an example of kids who were involved in the migration and the anti-sds reaction. I was one in college. Paleoconservatives, call them classic conservatives, if you will, included the klan, American nazi party, etc. The Neos had too many who while moving to the center and then right weren't moving fast enough. Neos aren't racists, war mongers, Gay bashers, etc. But, they remained enamored of too much 'around' the Constitution and not enough--although claiming to be strict constructionists, 'in' it. Hence, to many like myself, we made the logical migration to embrace the basic principle of conservatism in America: Constitutional rights. Thus, 'Constitutionalist.' Still holding to the principles of what is right and decent, but becoming aggressive defenders of what 'are' our rights and which must be protected.

    In short, Neo stopped being relevant to those of us who were enthused about it as youngsters as something new and different from the old timers' conservatism, and needed to be replaced with something more centered in our most important beliefs as we became educated and matured. There are still Neos, of course, but they stopped evolving long ago. Their issues have become Israel, Iraq, Iran, monetarism, etc. I think there are more important things to be concerned about. Basic things like the BoR. They don't.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    [SNIP]There are still Neos, of course, but they stopped evolving long ago. Their issues have become Israel, Iraq, Iran, monetarism, etc. I think there are more important things to be concerned about. Basic things like the BoR. They don't.
    This part of your last paragraph is what I envision when I think of a Neocon. So we agree then? I'm a bit confused because of your first reply to my post above.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    So, 'Positivism' isn't the issue, rather, the human, or group of individuals constructing the Positivist model, and applying it through a Government structure is the issue...wait, that would mean that the issue is a human issue, not a Government, nor a Positivist issue. Whew, I knew I could get us out of this one.
    Positivism is an issue because of the very reason you mentioned and those humans who insist on using it should never be elected into public office. And must be fought at every turn. Natural rights, should naturally overrule any rule of positivism.

    Everything is a "human issue" but a free liberated people won't let other humans force their ideologies down their throat.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    This part of your last paragraph is what I envision when I think of a Neocon. So we agree then? I'm a bit confused because of your first reply to my post above.
    That's why I elaborated on it. And why I am a "migrated" Neoconservative.
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