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Thread: Kirkwood and Open Carry

  1. #1
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    Kirkwood and Open Carry

    All,

    While I live in Minnesota, I get to MO regularly to visit my daughter and wonderful grandkids. My daughter lives in Kirkwood. Being there about 3 weeks ago, I nearly baked to death in the heat. So, I started wondering about open carry in Kirkwood. Everything I have seen on this site indicates the open carry is permitted in Kirkwood. But, to be sure, I called the chief of police and asked him about it. His response was that the law had changed and that it was no longer legal and that other municipalities around the St. Louis suburbs were changing their laws as well.

    The problem is that I am NOT certain he was being honest with me.

    Anyone more local know whether this is true? If I find out that he was intentionally misleading me, we may need to organize an open carry coffee meeting some morning at Kaldi's.

    Thoughts or comments?

  2. #2
    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWModel66 View Post
    All,

    While I live in Minnesota, I get to MO regularly to visit my daughter and wonderful grandkids. My daughter lives in Kirkwood. Being there about 3 weeks ago, I nearly baked to death in the heat. So, I started wondering about open carry in Kirkwood. Everything I have seen on this site indicates the open carry is permitted in Kirkwood. But, to be sure, I called the chief of police and asked him about it. His response was that the law had changed and that it was no longer legal and that other municipalities around the St. Louis suburbs were changing their laws as well.

    The problem is that I am NOT certain he was being honest with me.

    Anyone more local know whether this is true? If I find out that he was intentionally misleading me, we may need to organize an open carry coffee meeting some morning at Kaldi's.

    Thoughts or comments?
    You can find Kirkwood's codes directly linked from their own city website. And I can find no restriction against OC in their code. I find it common for LEO's to be dishonest on a regular basis. I even think most consider lying as part of their duties.

    http://www.kirkwoodmo.org/mm/files/C...0Amendment.pdf

    Doc

  3. #3
    Regular Member xdmcompact's Avatar
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    There are not many if any at all that will not tell you their opinion and state it as fact, but ask for them to put that in writing and they will change their song and dance. Usually they impose their opinion and say that even though it is legal that you shouldn't do it. Never ask an officer or the chief unless you want their opinion, because they can and will give you false information. Funny how that works you lie to them and they arrest you, they lie to you and its ok. Police officers are held to a higher standard, but unless the departments are held to that higher standard they will keep getting away with it.

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    Following up

    Yes indeed...I had already looked through their online posting of various laws and I did not see it, either. But, that could have been a timing issue. Just had a feeling. More than a little disappointing. I will dig a bit longer to see if I find anything else.
    Thanks all.

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    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWModel66 View Post
    Yes indeed...I had already looked through their online posting of various laws and I did not see it, either. But, that could have been a timing issue. Just had a feeling. More than a little disappointing. I will dig a bit longer to see if I find anything else.
    Thanks all.
    if you would like to listen to hear the city council meetings and the laws passed or see them written out.

    http://www.kirkwoodmo.org/content/Ci...y-council.aspx

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    Following up on the issue of Kirkwood open carry

    I was finally able to chat with the policy chief. He directed me to 17-131.2. Based upon this ordinance, Open Carry is not legal in Kirkwood. The ordinance can be found on the Kirkwood web site.

    Thanks all!

    BTW, the policy chief was most helpful and patient. He directed me to the ordinances pertaining to weapons (17-131 and 17-132). I was NOT able to find the specific language and we did exchange a number of emails about it. After cutting and pasting in what I was seeing and sending it to him, we determined that the website had not been updated and that I was looking at the older language. The revised/updated version appeared on the website shortly after that.

    One other interesting ordinance: 17-132.a.4: (this section outlines where it is not legal to carry a firearm) states:
    (4) Any meeting of the Kirkwood City Council, except that nothing in this
    subdivision shall preclude a member of the Kirkwood City Council, holding a valid
    concealed carry endorsement, from carrying a concealed firearm at a meeting of the City
    Council provided that it is not otherwise prohibited herein.

    If I read this correctly, the city councel members can carry...if they have a permit. You can't. Very strange.

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    Yep, looks like they snuck it through in April of this year.

    It was not an issue prior to that, passed with 100% of the council voting for it.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Yep, looks like they snuck it through in April of this year.

    It was not an issue prior to that, passed with 100% of the council voting for it.
    Scratch another one! The list grows shorter month by month...... Hum..............
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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    Sounds like entrapment to me.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheus97 View Post
    Sounds like entrapment to me.
    No, sorry. Always check locallaws before OCing. Really, it's not their responsibility to notify you is it?
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    I have to disagree. To answer your question, no i do not expect them to proactively notify me through email, phone, snail mail, etc whenever their city ordinances change. But that is not the case here. I do believe a reasonable person would expect Kirkwood's city codes published on Kirkwood's city website to be accurate and up to date.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheus97 View Post
    I have to disagree. To answer your question, no i do not expect them to proactively notify me through email, phone, snail mail, etc whenever their city ordinances change. But that is not the case here. I do believe a reasonable person would expect Kirkwood's city codes published on Kirkwood's city website to be accurate and up to date.
    I agree they sure should, wonder how it would ccoem out in court if an arrest took place and there was no update on their official web site?
    Need soemone to test it... volunteers wanted!

    I'll pass on this one....
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWModel66 View Post

    I was finally able to chat with the policy chief. He directed me to 17-131.2. Based upon this ordinance, Open Carry is not legal in Kirkwood. The ordinance can be found on the Kirkwood web site.

    Even though it didn't turn out like you'd hoped, it was good that the chief would take the time to direct you to "concrete" information.

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    Just want to state again

    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Even though it didn't turn out like you'd hoped, it was good that the chief would take the time to direct you to "concrete" information.
    I wanted to state again that the police chief was gracious throughout the entire process. I am sure it was irritating to him that I couldn't find the correct language. But, he never let on that I was being a pest. It also helped a lot that we were both polite toward one another. At the end, he thanked me for taking the time to ask. And, I told him I owed him a cup of coffee, my treat, during my next visit.

    Hopefully he will take me up on that. Friends are always better than enemies.


    Be safe, all.

  15. #15
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWModel66 View Post
    I wanted to state again that the police chief was gracious throughout the entire process. I am sure it was irritating to him that I couldn't find the correct language. But, he never let on that I was being a pest. It also helped a lot that we were both polite toward one another. At the end, he thanked me for taking the time to ask. And, I told him I owed him a cup of coffee, my treat, during my next visit.

    Hopefully he will take me up on that. Friends are always better than enemies.


    Be safe, all.
    Very good! It is important to have good relations with LEOs!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    yep looks like they did not add an exemption to 17-131 subsection D as usually stated with other cities that allow OC with a permit.

    what a shame
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

  17. #17
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    yep looks like they did not add an exemption to 17-131 subsection D as usually stated with other cities that allow OC with a permit.

    what a shame
    The mini's in STL Co. prohibiting OC arn't gonna give an OC with CCW!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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