I am thinking about applying for my Handgun/Pistol Permit: Need Advice

Ever since I was a child, my goal was to apply and obtain my Handgun/Pistol Permit. My father has his permit ever since he became a Naturalized citizen of this country. Also, he taught my sister to shoot and respect firearms from an early age. As I grew into my teenage years, I made a few mistakes along the way. I was involved in an incident involving destruction of mailboxes and pleaded as a Youthful Offender. I also had an altercation with my father, and had to appear in court where the case was dismissed after talking with the prosecutor. I was also caught with marijuana, though no charges were ever filed. I admit, I was reckless and stupid. As I look back, I should have always listened to my parents when they said the past would one day find its way to the present.

It has been over ten years since my last run in with the law and I have matured along the way. Life is a lot different than the years of my youth. I have come to point where I personally feel that I am responsible enough to pursue my Handgun/Pistol permit.

Now, I am a bit wary as I prepare my completed application for the local authorities. I am especially concerned with the section asking for details of my arrest record. I am filing my application in the community where I committed all these acts. It has been ten years, but LEOS have an extremely good memory. Recently, I obtained a Criminal History Request from the state of CT and I had no hits according to their reply.

From my understanding, I am legally allowed to say I have no arrest record, but I'm sure the LEO's at the police station would scoff when reading my application. I may be denied for lying as I have read in other forums. In addition, I understand under the suitability requirement I may be denied.

How should I approach my situation? I know I am being honest in answering the questions required of the application, but I feel I have an up-hill battle awaiting me.

Thanks.

How old are you now?

You can say you had arrests when you were a minor, but not as an adult. If the records are sealed, all the better. It's their job to prove you unsuitable, not your job to prove you are.

Next, for youthful offenses, you'll be fine (well, as long as you have no felonies!). Then, they can sometimes be brought into question on suitability. But most likely those records are sealed as they usually are with minors.

If you're adult life is totally clean, you have nothing to fear. If the local issuing authority tries to play any games, the BFPE will indeed still grant you your permit.

I've seen worse go through and I attend all the BFPE hearings as an observer.

Jonathan

KIX said:

How old are you now?

You can say you had arrests when you were a minor, but not as an adult. If the records are sealed, all the better. It's their job to prove you unsuitable, not your job to prove you are.

Next, for youthful offenses, you'll be fine (well, as long as you have no felonies!). Then, they can sometimes be brought into question on suitability. But most likely those records are sealed as they usually are with minors.

If you're adult life is totally clean, you have nothing to fear. If the local issuing authority tries to play any games, the BFPE will indeed still grant you your permit.

I've seen worse go through and I attend all the BFPE hearings as an observer.

Jonathan

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Hello Jonathan.

Thanks for the quick reply. I am 27 years old now and my last run in with the law was when I was 17. My case as a youthful offender was not a felony and I have been clean ever since turning the age of majority. I just wanted to clarify something from what you said. So, I should put that I had arrests when I was a minor just to cover myself from lying on the application?

Thanks again.

I think before you do anything, you should call an attorney. Any money they may cost you now would be well worth it.

My recommendations:

Attorney Rachel Baird
or
Attorney Ralph Sherman

This one is rather clean cut though. None are felonies or disqualifiers and protected by youthful offender status.

However, if you want to make doubly sure, Ralph Sherman may be the guy for this one as he handles more of these types of cases than any attorney in the state.

Jonathan

KIX said:

This one is rather clean cut though.

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Nothing will ever be clean cut in this state until suitability is eliminated.

Hey, I'm workin' on it brotha!

But, since I've seen over a hundred cases get heard by this point, I think he'll be just fine.

Jonathan

You do not need to list the arrests or outcome of any cases adjudicated under YOS and other diversionary progrmas (ARS, CSLP, AEP, etc...). It states it right on the application, if you put it down it will only hurt you as you will be "opening the can of worms". The PD knows they cannot use Juvenile cases (unless classified as a serious Juvenile offense) against you, if they do you would win on appeal.

The proper wording is:

You are not required to disclose the existence of any arrest, criminal charge or conviction, the records of which have been erased pursuant to C.G.S. 46b-146, 54-76o, or 54-142a. If your criminal records have been erased pursuant to one of these statutes, you may swear under oath that you have never been arrested. Criminal records that may be erased are records pertaining to a finding of delinquency or that a child was a member of a family with service needs (C.G.S. 46b-146), an adjudication as a youthful offender (C.G.S. 54-76o), a criminal charge that has been dismissed or nolled, a criminal charge for which the person has been found not guilty, or a conviction for which the person received an absolute pardon (C.G.S. 54-142a).

So, simply stated, find out if the records were erased pursuant to these statutes and being a juvenile.

If that's the case - 'nuff said.

I have seen officers come in to a hearing and say "I knew him when he was a juvenile, and he was trouble"....... as insane as that is. This is why (amongst other reasons) I want us to end suitability.

Jonathan

KIX said:

The proper wording is:


I have seen officers come in to a hearing and say "I knew him when he was a juvenile, and he was trouble"....... as insane as that is. This is why (amongst other reasons) I want us to end suitability.

Jonathan

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What has been your experience in regards to the outcome with those instances? Suitability is incredibly vague and doesn't allow for a standardized application of the law.

At this point, I'll take my time with the process so that I can fully prepare for what may come my way.

I have contacted one of the attorneys you recommended and will be in touch once they return in a couple of weeks.

The nice thing is I heard the board members say that your youth is your youth. You're not 22 either, 27 is almost a decade from your teen years with a clean record.

The Chairman often brings up science about your mind not being fully developed until you are about 22 or 23 and such...... as long as the past is the past and you have a clean adult life, you'll do just fine.

With the records check and knowing that you are clean should be good enough. I'd just check that the juvenile records were indeed expunged. With that, you are free to say no arrest and go from there.

I think every case where someone was clean as an adult for at least ten or so years has been granted their permit. I can't think of a denial in the past year along those lines.

Jonathan

For the record, I've outlined the process on my website at:

www.ctpistolpermitissues.com

Jonathan

brk913 said:

You do not need to list the arrests or outcome of any cases adjudicated under YOS and other diversionary progrmas (ARS, CSLP, AEP, etc...). It states it right on the application, if you put it down it will only hurt you as you will be "opening the can of worms". The PD knows they cannot use Juvenile cases (unless classified as a serious Juvenile offense) against you, if they do you would win on appeal.

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I agree. I would not list any offenses not in the public record. I sure don't.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice and information brought to this thread. I will definitely use all of this as I being the applications process.

I'll keep you all update with my progress along the way.

I can tell you from experience that if you have anything that happened once you turned 18 even if it's been expunged from your record you have to list it. My friend is a LEO and ran my record when I was applying. It came back clean. When I applied they turned up 2 misdemeanors from when I was 19 that had been sealed records.

sgrindrod said:

When I applied they turned up 2 misdemeanors from when I was 19 that had been sealed records.

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And they used that against you? That seems to go against the rules of erasure.

Rich B said:

And they used that against you? That seems to go against the rules of erasure.

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Yes. I had to explain them to the Chief of Police. It was quite embarrassing. They knew details above and beyond what the charges were.

Was this because they "knew" you or because an arrest showed up when they ran your history?

Really curious as I help people with the permit process and it would be handy to know.

Thanx for the input!

Jonathan

I had a friend who had used AR try to buy a pistol back before you needed a permit to purchase. He waited the 2 weeks and wound up denied because the arrest showed on his record. He had to do a little running around to get his files from the court (Enfield is where records are) and they immediatley fixed it in the computer records (they have to as it is against state statute to disclose or discuss any case that has been dismissed via AR or any other diversionary program), after he did that he spoke with Jack at SLFU who authorized the gun store sell him the gun wiothout another 2 week wait. Even the court system makes mistakes sometimes but it is rare.

Again, they cannot use anything related to an arrest if it was adjudicated via one of the exclusions listed on the application. If the PD used that against you and denied you the BOFPE would have ruled in your favor. Additionally you would not need to explain anything to the Chief of Police as once the records are fixed they would no longer see them and it is illegal for them to disclose it even if they see or know about it. As far as using it to claim you are not suitable, they cannot, it did not happen, no arrest, no conviction, no probation, no record, period. Remember this is the same issue the DPS ran into with Goldberg and why they returned his permit just prior to his hearing before the BOFPE, they could not use his arrest or even bring it up to use against him as a suitability issue as his case was dismissed and it would violate state statute or them to do so.

All conviction records after 2000 are now online. You can run a CT check on yourself to see if you have any convictions on your record right off the Judicial website. If an AR or other diversionary program shows up ater it's dismissal date you should take care of it prior to applying. If you had something prior to 2000 you will need to run the $50 check through DPS to verify.

brk913 said:

Again, they cannot use anything related to an arrest if it was adjudicated via one of the exclusions listed on the application. If the PD used that against you and denied you the BOFPE would have ruled in your favor. Additionally you would not need to explain anything to the Chief of Police as once the records are fixed they would no longer see them and it is illegal for them to disclose it even if they see or know about it.

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Not totally true. If the officer that is doing the permit investigation knows of, or was involved with the original arrest, he can deny on that alone. Now, I'm not denying that it will be dropped at the BFPE hearing, but it can be discussed. It goes to character and the reason to end suitability. I have not only seen this happen at BFPE hearings, I saw it VERY recently at a hearing.

brk913 said:

Remember this is the same issue the DPS ran into with Goldberg and why they returned his permit just prior to his hearing before the BOFPE, they could not use his arrest or even bring it up to use against him as a suitability issue as his case was dismissed and it would violate state statute or them to do so.

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Again, I've seen the discussions happen at hearings and that is just not the case. Goldberg didn't break a law, that was why he got his permit back. Nothing to do with the arrest or anything.

I'm at these hearings every month, seen well over a 140 cases or so now and I've seen prior arrests, AR, juvenile, diversionary - whatever be brought up. There are several ways to open up that door during the hearing and they do get discussed.

Where is it illegal to discuss this? Statute? Would be helpful in basing an argument on this in the future.

Suitability must go..... period.

Jonathan