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Thread: Just a question about a Super Shorty AOW

  1. #1
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    Just a question about a Super Shorty AOW

    I've wondered for the longest time now on this subject and after looking could find no previous mention of the ruling by VA open carry law.

    I've just recently purchased a Serbu Super Shorty and it came with a leg holster. If you aren't familiar, it is essentially a short-barrel shotgun with a pistol grip and a 3-shot magazine with a fold-down forward grip. Here is a picture

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    Would this be allowed or prohibited for open carry by Virginia statutes?

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    IIRC Serbu Super shorty's are NOT Short barrel Shotguns. A short barrel shotgun or SBS is one that has a barrel less than 18 inchs and has a stock. They are considered any other weapon (AOW) catagory? I believe these are a $5 tax stamp as a opposed to a $200 dollar tax stamp.

    Definition SBS:

    A “short-barreled shotgun” is a weapon that is a “shotgun” with a barrel length less than 18 inches and any weapon made from a “shotgun” if the overall length is less than 26 inches. The statutory definition of a “shotgun,” pursuant to RCW 9.41.010(5), includes a requirement that the weapon be intended to be fired from the shoulder.


    I think the argument is if you where to try and carry this under your Concealed Handgun Permit. I personally do not know any VA Laws regulating the open carry of AOWs. If somebody finds one I would be interested in knowing it.
    Last edited by rob99vmi04; 08-17-2011 at 09:50 AM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    your shorty, Is not a short barreled shotgun!
    IT IS A PISTOL!!!
    it was not made from a shotgun!
    IT WAS mMADE as a pistol.
    it is NOT a AOW!
    it has never been a shotgun.
    carry it openly, or concealed with a CPL.
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 08-17-2011 at 11:08 AM.
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    I could be wrong, but I've always understood that the Serbu IS an AOW, which requires a tax stamp.

    In fact, from serbu's website:

    "The SUPER-SHORTY is based on a Mossberg Maverick (also available on Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 at additional cost) 12-gauge shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip. Because of this, the SUPER-SHORTY is considered an AOW (Any Other Weapon) and can be transferred with a $5 stamp!"


    "This product requires federal registration under the national firearms act of 1934.Please see our NFA Ordering page for information on this process."

    I'm not certain about being able to carry concealed, may or may not be a "handgun" since it has the vertical forward grip. As for open carry, as Rob99 said, I know of no laws regulating open carry of AOW's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    your shorty, Is not a short barreled shotgun!
    IT IS A PISTOL!!!
    it was not made from a shotgun!
    IT WAS mMADE as a pistol.
    it is NOT a AOW!
    it has never been a shotgun.
    carry it openly, or concealed with a CPL.
    Sorry you are not correct....It is NOT a Pistol it is an AOW...and according to their website they get there guns from the manfacturers as shotguns.

    http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

    The SUPER-SHORTY is based on a Mossberg Maverick (also available on Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 at additional cost) 12-gauge shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip. Because of this, the SUPER-SHORTY is considered an AOW (Any Other Weapon) and can be transferred with a $5 stamp! The gun holds two 2-3/4" or 3" shells in the magazine, plus one in the chamber. The 16.5" overall length, 6.5" barrel and spring-locked foregrip, which pivots out of the way when not in use, make for a very compact package. As far as we know, this is the shortest 12-gauge pump shotgun available. All parts for the SUPER-SHORTY are made in-house on our own CNC machinery using materials ideally suited to the task. All welds are done by the TIG process, and the manganese phosphate finish is MIL-spec. The SUPER-SHORTY is currently being used by various law enforcement agencies and military units worldwide. If you like the idea of concealed carry with a 12-gauge, or like a lot of "bang" in a small package, or just want the most compact breaching weapon available, then this is the gun for you. You won't find a better made AOW pump shotgun than the SUPER-SHORTY!
    Last edited by rob99vmi04; 08-17-2011 at 01:22 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    i a little curios about something too. i have just recently leaned about AOW. would you have to keep the permits with this gun to make sure you weren't charge with an illegal firearm?

    also, like the others i am not aware of any VA laws saying what you can openly carry (as long as it is a legal firearm)
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    your shorty, Is not a short barreled shotgun!
    IT IS A PISTOL!!!
    it was not made from a shotgun!
    IT WAS mMADE as a pistol.
    it is NOT a AOW!
    it has never been a shotgun.
    carry it openly, or concealed with a CPL.
    There aren't any CPLs in VA, I recommend the CHP.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

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    I don't know anything about that gun in particular, but if it is a shotgun, then be aware the law in Virginia specifically permits localities to enact ordinances regulating the possession thereof. So you've got to check each jurisdiction's local ordinances before you carry one there.
    Last edited by user; 08-20-2011 at 10:51 AM.
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    Just a thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel McColgan View Post
    Would this be allowed or prohibited for open carry by Virginia statutes?
    As a practical matter, I don't think that piece would be very good as an "out in public self-defense" weapon. Whether it is considered a shotgun by legal terms or not - it does in fact fire shot shell from a very short smooth barrel, which means you would be slinging lead all over the place. This would dramatically increase the likelihood that you may wound or kill an innocent bystander, should you be forced to actually fire the thing in self-defense.

    I'm sure it's a blast to shoot, I just don't think it would be a practical defense weapon.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    Agree with Armed. It would be great for a SHTF scenario, butr for everyday OC give me a pistol in a comfortable hip holster!

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Mark Serbu is a friend of mine.. has been for 30 years. I went to high school with him and he is from VA. I have a SuperShorty AOW and have OpenCarried it in a similar holster. I even shot skeet with it last month. :-)

    Carry On.

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    Seems like a very limited use gun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Seems like a very limited use gun.
    Yes, it's limited to fun!!

    On a serious note, while it may be legal, I also don't think it would make a practical carry gun.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 08-20-2011 at 11:15 PM.
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Yes, it's limited to fun!!

    On a serious note, while it may be legal, I also don't think it would make a practical carry gun.
    Agreed on your second pont. On your first, it is a great home defense 12 gauge. The fact that the entire gun is 17" lets you move about pretty freely without banging into walls like you might with a full size shotgun. Every gun has it's limitations.. the Shorty is very diverse
    Carry On.

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    The Super Shorty is defined as a smooth bore handgun that fires shotshell rather than cartridge. Since it was never designed/manufactured with the intention to shoulder fire it is not considered a shotgun for legal purposes in many cases, but don't ask me for cites, I am not a lawyer.

    I would see the main purpose of this firearm as home defense, not carry. The compact size makes it very easy to handle in tight spaces and with practice you could become very adept at 'hipfiring' it.

    I would suggest some Federal Reduced Recoil 00 buck, otherwise your wrist could get strained after practicing alot.

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    Amazing looking AOW wish we could legally own in Kalifornia

    Quote Originally Posted by rob99vmi04 View Post
    Sorry you are not correct....It is NOT a Pistol it is an AOW...and according to their website they get there guns from the manfacturers as shotguns.

    http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

    The SUPER-SHORTY is based on a Mossberg Maverick (also available on Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 at additional cost) 12-gauge shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip. Because of this, the SUPER-SHORTY is considered an AOW (Any Other Weapon) and can be transferred with a $5 stamp! The gun holds two 2-3/4" or 3" shells in the magazine, plus one in the chamber. The 16.5" overall length, 6.5" barrel and spring-locked foregrip, which pivots out of the way when not in use, make for a very compact package. As far as we know, this is the shortest 12-gauge pump shotgun available. All parts for the SUPER-SHORTY are made in-house on our own CNC machinery using materials ideally suited to the task. All welds are done by the TIG process, and the manganese phosphate finish is MIL-spec. The SUPER-SHORTY is currently being used by various law enforcement agencies and military units worldwide. If you like the idea of concealed carry with a 12-gauge, or like a lot of "bang" in a small package, or just want the most compact breaching weapon available, then this is the gun for you. You won't find a better made AOW pump shotgun than the SUPER-SHORTY!
    Never come across one of these unfortunately I doubt if I'll ever be able to legally own one in Kalifornia
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    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/i...n-nfa-aow.html
    National Firearms Act Definitions
    Any Other Weapon
    26 U.S.C. § 5845(E)

    For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Any Other Weapon” means:

    -Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive;
    -A pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell;
    -Weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading; and
    -Any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire.

    Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Yes, it's limited to fun!!

    On a serious note, while it may be legal, I also don't think it would make a practical carry gun.
    Lesee...only three rounds, requires both hands to get off a second shot, and since it doesn't qualify as a handgun you can't legally conceal it. I'd say you're correct.

    I still want to play with one, though.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    The best part about the "Shorty" is that it is NOT a "Long" Gun, and thus open carry discussions of this fine AOW are not precluded by rule # 14!
    Last edited by Thundar; 08-26-2011 at 08:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    The best part about the "Shorty" is that it is NOT a "Long" Gun, and thus open carry discussions of this fine AOW are not precluded by rule # 11!
    Or is it?

    You have a valid point Thundar.
    I have never really liked that rule anyway. But the rules are the rules in this isn't a democracy.

    I hardly see how a sawed off shotgun can qualify as a handgun for open carry discussion.

    But then again, we frequently bend the rules and discuss concealed handgun permits and other potentially off-topic things. The moderators and administrators are usually pretty tolerant unless things get out of hand.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Or is it?

    I hardly see how a sawed off shotgun can qualify as a handgun for open carry discussion.
    Ah, but under the law it's not a SBS.

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    Ah, but under the law it's not a SBS.
    Yeaaah, but it's not a handgun either. My first Taser was designated as an AOW because it used a powder charge, but for the most part, Open Carry of Tasers is frowned on here too.

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