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Thread: Lansing, MI woman not likely to be charged after shooting dog.

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Lansing, MI woman not likely to be charged after shooting dog.

    http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/a...=2011108160314


    Lansing Police spokesman Lt. Noel Garcia confirmed today that no charge has been formally filed against Smith after all. And, he said, it's "unlikely" there will be.

    July 30, Smith was sitting on the porch of her North Sycamore Street home July 26. Bernie, was on a leash, playing in the bushes near Smith's house.
    Suddenly, a neighbor's pit bull came charging around the corner, with the neighbor close behind it. The dog chased Bernie onto Smith's porch, and grabbed the cat in its jaws.
    Smith and the owner of the dog tried to separate the animals, but failed.
    Smith, 47, then went into her house and came back with her husband's .38-caliber pistol, legally owned. She took one shot from her porch and killed the pit bull.
    Last edited by lil_freak_66; 08-17-2011 at 11:55 AM.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Regular Member usamarshal's Avatar
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    I'm amazed she wasn't injured or even killed by the pit bull...very dangerous situation...thank god she's okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usamarshal View Post
    I'm amazed she wasn't injured or even killed by the pit bull...very dangerous situation...thank god she's okay.
    Why are you amazed at that? The dog wasn't interested in her, it was attacking the cat. By breeding, pits are not aggressive toward humans.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Interesting story in a couple ways. To me it sounds like she was angry about the death of her cat and wanted to avenge it by shooting the dog. The article doesn't indicate that she was in fear for her life or under attack by the dog. She could have been which would justify the shooting. The other interesting part was that officers arrived with guns drawn and ordered her to the ground. The author seems to think that this was okay, but I am not so sure.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    To me it sounds like she was angry about the death of her cat and wanted to avenge it by shooting the dog.
    Uh, I presume the cat was still in the mouth of the dog, so it's questionable whether or not it was dead, alive, or mortally wounded and in the process of dying. It's probably a good bet that animal was being macerated at that point she fired the revolver; is there some expectation to take the cat's pulse as he's being thrashed about, or what? You weren't there, the responding officers weren't there, and truth is, the panicked woman and her neighbor probably didn't know the status of the cat in the heat of the moment, either.

    Also, it wasn't the author who had no problem with the way the police responded, it was the victim. The reporter didn't relay his personal feelings. "Smith had no complaints with the way she was treated. But after the dust settled, she was the only one facing charges. Smith asked, "Why am I the criminal here?""

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CO-Joe View Post
    Uh, I presume the cat was still in the mouth of the dog, so it's questionable whether or not it was dead, alive, or mortally wounded and in the process of dying. It's probably a good bet that animal was being macerated at that point she fired the revolver; is there some expectation to take the cat's pulse as he's being thrashed about, or what? You weren't there, the responding officers weren't there, and truth is, the panicked woman and her neighbor probably didn't know the status of the cat in the heat of the moment, either.

    Also, it wasn't the author who had no problem with the way the police responded, it was the victim. The reporter didn't relay his personal feelings. "Smith had no complaints with the way she was treated. But after the dust settled, she was the only one facing charges. Smith asked, "Why am I the criminal here?""
    I agree with you on the cat, I was simply theorizing like everyone else. You presume the cat was still alive, I presume it was dead. We can disagree, it's all good. :-)

    In regards to the author, he does give his opinion by saying the officer's followed a understandable precaution by arriving guns drawn.

    "A neighbor phoned Lansing police. Officers approached Smith's porch with their guns drawn - an understandable precaution since a gun had been fired. Smith was ordered to her knees and handcuffed. The officers confiscated the gun."
    Last edited by thebigsd; 08-17-2011 at 01:36 PM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    I agree with you on the cat, I was simply theorizing like everyone else. You presume the cat was still alive, I presume it was dead. We can disagree, it's all good. :-)

    In regards to the author, he does give his opinion by saying the officer's followed a understandable precaution by arriving guns drawn.

    "A neighbor phoned Lansing police. Officers approached Smith's porch with their guns drawn - an understandable precaution since a gun had been fired. Smith was ordered to her knees and handcuffed. The officers confiscated the gun."
    I simply said the state of the cat was indeterminate--forgive me--much like a Schrodinger's cat. Anyway, yeah, I missed that. However, for better or worse, policemen do often approach the scene of a shooting with guns drawn, and it only makes sense to secure any weapons at the scene, until things get sorted out. I think so much is an understandable precaution. Handcuffing a non-aggressive woman might be a bit much, though.

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    Across the border here in Pennsylvania, the law regarding killing certain dogs reads as follows:

    Any person may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing or wounding or killing any domestic animal, wounding or killing other dogs, cats or household pets, or pursuing, wounding or attacking human beings, whether or not such a dog bears the license tag required by the provisions of this act.

    There shall be no liability on such persons in damages or otherwise for such killing.


    Please note, the shooter doesn't have to be in a personal life-threatening situation.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CO-Joe
    for better or worse, policemen do often approach the scene of a shooting with guns drawn, and it only makes sense to secure any weapons at the scene, until things get sorted out.
    ... Handcuffing a non-aggressive woman might be a bit much, though.
    Agree on the last part, but if they were called & told someone shot a dog that was attacking, & they get there & the dog is no longer attacking, & the gun is no longer being pointed at anyone/anything, where's the emergency?

    If she were smart, she would have put the pistol inside, preferably locked away, when she put the damaged cat in its carrier & got the car / house keys in preparation for taking it to the vet, & locked the door on her way out of the house.
    Then if the police arrived & delayed her getting the cat to the vet, who knows when it died? (& police would have a much harder time stealing her property.)

    The police spokesman says:
    "it's fortunate nobody got hurt by the discharge of the firearm"
    HA! It's fortunate the dog didn't harm anyone (other than the cat).
    And the dog owner is whining about "she didn't have to kill my dog!"
    Well, yeah, it was obviously not under your control & had already attacked once.
    I don't care what breed it is, if it's already out of control & killing, & would be capable of harming me (yip punt dogs aren't), I'll strongly consider stopping it.

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    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Neighbour's pitbull mauls girl, 4, to death.

    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Why are you amazed at that? The dog wasn't interested in her, it was attacking the cat. By breeding, pits are not aggressive toward humans.
    Maybe not where you are, but they are aggressive and kill Down Under. I use them to hunt ferel pigs. They are fearless and very powerfull.

    Neighbour's pitbull mauls girl, 4, to death.
    Michelle Ainsworth and Mark Buttler From: Herald Sun August 18, 2011 12:00AM
    Dog kills child
    A four-year-old girl has died and her two cousins have been injured in a pitbull terrier attack in Melbourne's northwest.

    A FOUR-YEAR-OLD girl has been mauled to death by a neighbour's pitbull terrier that also savagely attacked two relatives.

    Ayen Chol died as her 30-year-old cousin fought desperately to fend off the vicious animal after it wandered into their St Albans home in Melbourne about 8pm last night, her distraught family said last night.

    The woman suffered bites to her arms and hands during the terrifying struggle, while another cousin, 5, suffered facial injuires in the horrific attack.

    As Ayen's stunned mother Jaclin Apuk Awan wept in the street last night, shocked relative Daniel Atem said the family was in disbelief.

    Read More:

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226117054359
    Last edited by Haz.; 08-17-2011 at 07:32 PM.
    When a criminal invades your home and has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.

    My Definition of Gun Control: The idea that dozens of people found dead in the Broadway Café, Tasmania, and many also seriously wounded, all while waiting for police, who were called to show up and protect them, is somehow morally superior to having several armed and therefore alive civilian's explaining to police how the attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz. View Post
    Maybe not where you are, but they are aggressive and kill Down Under. I use them to hunt ferel pigs. They are fearless and very powerfull.

    He was referring to the overall breed not specific dogs raised a certain way for a certain outcome. Any dog can be raised/trained to be aggressive towards anyone/thing...

    Pitbulls (American Staffordshire Terrier) outscore most other dogs on temperament test..


    http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_s...shire_terrier/

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    im honestly surprised that she isnt being charged,michigan does not have any laws allowing for defense of a domesticated animal,only livestock. then again after an animal goes into a frenzy like that...whos to say the dog would have stopped with the cat and left the people alone?
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    He was referring to the overall breed not specific dogs raised a certain way for a certain outcome. Any dog can be raised/trained to be aggressive towards anyone/thing...

    Pitbulls (American Staffordshire Terrier) outscore most other dogs on temperament test..


    http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_s...shire_terrier/
    Agreed mate. As I said, I owned two pit bulls and regularly hunted ferel pigs, and the ferel pigs are huge down under. They were fearless, fast,powerful and yet gentle as lambs with my children. Still I never ever let them roam about? All my dogs were always secureed and monitered when at home.

    Typical ferel boar pig! Now dogs that can catch, lug and hold pigs this size can do much damage to humans if they snap!
    When a criminal invades your home and has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.

    My Definition of Gun Control: The idea that dozens of people found dead in the Broadway Café, Tasmania, and many also seriously wounded, all while waiting for police, who were called to show up and protect them, is somehow morally superior to having several armed and therefore alive civilian's explaining to police how the attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz. View Post
    Agreed mate. As I said, I owned two pit bulls and regularly hunted ferel pigs, and the ferel pigs are huge down under. They were fearless, fast,powerful and yet gentle as lambs with my children. Still I never ever let them roam about? All my dogs were always secureed and monitered when at home.

    Typical ferel boar pig! Now dogs that can catch, lug and hold pigs this size can do much damage to humans if they snap!
    it'd take a whole pack of pits for that beast!!!

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