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A new member

Law abider

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
1,164
Location
Ellsworth Wisconsin
Hi all. I am a new member. I will be purchasing a firearm soon. As I browsed through the threads on open carry, I was overwhelmed by the various state statutes and other ordinances regarding open carry. I got the impression that the statutes were puroposely designed to discourage us from fulfilling our right to keep and bear arms. I was espcially overwhelmed at the various senarios I would face with law enforcement when stopped. So I hope that those of you who are 'experts' on open carry will help me out. I will need to make a crib sheet that I can carry with me with all statutes pertaining to where we can and where we cannot carry. I do have a good friend who is a sergant in our local police force, an Iraq war vet also and he is about the only constitutional cop I know in our county. Maybe I can ask him on the topic on open carry. He has given me his shot gun to keep varmints from killing my egg laying hens where I live in the country. I realize that cops are not friends.

I would also like suggestions as to where and what hand gun to purchase. I would also like to be aquainted with open carry folks in my area. Thanks and hope that someone replies to this thread.
 

civilwarguy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
197
Location
elkhorn wi
Check Out The Thread for Adopt a First Timer so who is in you area if there isnt anyone close feel free to conact me. Carry safe and as much as possible
 

TaurusToter

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
308
Location
West Bend, WI
Welcome to the boards!

There is a wealth of information here, as well as some of the friendliest people you'll ever meet.

I'd suggest starting with the "stickies" at the top of the Wisconsin forum board. Keep an eye out for meet and greets, because they are always fun and educational

Enjoy the boards!
 

jpm84092

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
1,066
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Welcome to the forum. You will find many friendly folks who will help you navigate the open carry laws of Wisconsin - AND - who will help you when concealed carry becomes a reality in WI on November 1, 2011. And, of course, the changes to open carry that are contained within Senate Bill 93 (as ammended) (aka AB 35). So welcome - and - Carry On.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Welcome aboard.
I see you're over toward St. Paul... Hardballer is in your general neck of the woods.
I don't remember other people over there off the top of my head, but they'll pop in to say hi soon enough.

For information, I suggest starting with the stickies
"Here's what you should know"
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...rrying-(OC)-In-WI-Here-s-what-you-should-know
and
"Adopt a first-timer"
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?77014-Adopt-a-first-timer

The "what you should know" thread has LOTS of links to useful information, including Wisconsin Carry's page http://www.wisconsincarry.org/ (which itself has lots of useful information - see the "legal" tab in the upper right, then click on "Wisconsin legal citations").
That laws page also has, at the bottom, a 'gun rights pamphlet' which might fit the bill for something you can carry to remind yourself & cops about the laws.
It's for current laws, which will be changed come 01NOV, esp. if you get a permit.

BE SURE TO WATCH the "don't talk to cops" videos. Yes, they're long, yes the lawyer talks fast. Just do it.

Places you can't currently carry:
1) In your car. (Unless unloaded & encased*.) 167.31
2) In a state park or fish hatchery. (Unless unloaded & encased.) 29.089
3) In a government (taxpayer-owned) building, or any property of the post office. 941.235
4) Anyplace that's posted. (Trespass.)

5) Knowingly within 1000' (3 blocks) of the edge of a school property (K-12), unless
a) you are on private property
or
b) unloaded & encased 948.605

6) In a place that serves alcohol for on-premises consumption, unless
a) it's a long gun
or
b) you have permission from the owner or manager 941.237


As of 01NOV... [see PDF of the new law in my sig]
1) You can carry OPENLY in your car. (See #4 about school zones.)
2) With a permit, you can carry in a state park.
3) With a permit, you can carry in a gov't building, unless it's posted, OR UNLESS it's one of the prohibited places (police station, jail, secure mental health facility, courthouse,... what did I forget?)
4) With a permit, you can carry in a school zone, but NOT on school property. (I interpret that to mean up to the inner edge of the sidewalk, but a cop or judge might see it differently. Read the law & decide for yourself.)
5) With a permit, you can carry in a place that serves alcohol as long as you're not drinking. (There are a couple of nuances we argue about that I won't confuse you with.)
6) If a place is posted, & you can reasonably be expected to see the sign, it's tresspass. (A ticket & fine.)

After 01NOV, if you're carrying concealed, or in a place that only permittees may carry, an officer may request to see your permit & ID (because if you don't have one you're breaking a law, & that's RAS**).


* unloaded = no cartridge in the chamber or in an attached magazine
encased = currently means in a case designed for a firearm. After 01NOV, it can be any case.
** RAS = Reasonable Articulable Suspicion of a crime
 
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BROKENSPROKET

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
2,199
Location
Trempealeau County

TaurusToter

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
308
Location
West Bend, WI
6) In a place that serves alcohol for on-premises consumption, unless
a) it's a long gun
or
b) you have permission from the owner or manager 941.237

So THAT'S why no one thought anything of the guy who brought the AR into the bar last Friday night! :lol:
 

Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
Welcome...

Being new, the information is a lot to take in but... In a short period of time it will become second nature and the more you open carry in public without anybody even mentioning that you are carrying, the more comfortable it will become.

I suggest that when you get your firearm and holster, you start by open carrying around the house and yard (with the obvious SAFTEY concerns if there are children or young adults present). This will give you a chance to become familiar with the "feel" of the firearm on your hip.

As far as what type of firearm... That is a total personal choice. Some ranges will rent different pistols so you can try a few before you buy. The most important thing is get one that you are comforatble with holding and shooting, not to impress anybody but yourself. I carry a Springfield Armory XD for the above reasons as well as ease of disassembly for cleaning and the multiple saftey features built into the firearm.

Caliber size is also a personal choice. I have heard both sides of the discussion that a person is better off with a smaller caliber (9mm) that he or she can hit the target with, over a larger caliber that they might not be as accurate with, or... there are stories out there where multiple direct hits from a smaller caliber did not stop a threat for various reasons where as a larger calibler would (might) have stopped the atttacker. I personally subscribe to the latter and carry a .40 caliber. Cost of ammo might also be a factor in choosing caliber. The most important factor is obvioulsy practice until you think you cannot practice anymore the practice A LOT more...

Finally, quoting a section of your post...

I do have a good friend who is a sergant in our local police force, an Iraq war vet also and he is about the only constitutional cop I know in our county. Maybe I can ask him on the topic on open carry. He has given me his shot gun to keep varmints from killing my egg laying hens where I live in the country. I realize that cops are not friends.

Kinda contradicting yourself a little...but I understand what you were trying to say... Granted a LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) (Cop).. is a LEO.. is a LEO... And there are LEO's who will give you a hard time for whatever reason they see fit. Most here will advise NOT talk to LEO under any circunstances and in my opinion (from personal experiances), any interaction with any LEO should be handle on a case by case basis. If the LEO seems polite, friendly (be carfull there friendliness can be faked), knowledgeable of the laws, then I will respond in a polite, friendly, (somtimes humorous), way making sure to inform the LEO that I am an open carrier, very aware of state statutes (laws) regarding open carry and that if I choose, I have the legal right not to provide I.D. if I am doing nothing illegal. On the other hand, if an LEO approaches with a "cocky" attitude and starts trying to trample my rights then it would be better "Not" to talk to him anymore than nesseary (to ask if you are being held and on what charge, and to inform him that you are knowldgeable on state laws regarding open carry and your legal rights, and if you are not being held then you have the right to leave... after that ... End of Discussioin....

I know some here will strongly disagree with ny LEO advise, but hey... everyone is entitled to an opinion and I am jsut expressing mine. Any LEO encounter that you can walk away from without giving up any rights, uncharged, and still in possesion of your firearm, I would consider a good encounter no matter how it is handled...

I am realitiveley new too, but open carry every day, so if I can help in anyway, just let me know.

Outdoorsman1
 
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davegran

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
Welcome to the forum!

Hi all. I am a new member. I will be purchasing a firearm soon. As I browsed through the threads on open carry, I was overwhelmed by the various state statutes and other ordinances regarding open carry. I got the impression that the statutes were puroposely designed to discourage us from fulfilling our right to keep and bear arms....

I would also like suggestions as to where and what hand gun to purchase. I would also like to be aquainted with open carry folks in my area. Thanks and hope that someone replies to this thread.
Hi Law Abider; welcome to the forum!

You've got it right about statutes "purposely designed to discourage us from fulfilling our right to keep and bear arms". Although we do have a state preemption law that stops municipalities from enacting laws more stringent than state statutes.
66.0409. Local regulation of firearms.
(1) In this section:
(a) "Firearm" has the meaning given in s.
167.31 (1) (c).
(b) "Political subdivision" means a city,
village, town or county.
(c) "Sport shooting range" means an area designed and operated for the practice of weapons used in hunting, skeet shooting and similar sport shooting.
(2) Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.
(3)(a) Nothing in this section prohibits a county from imposing a sales tax or use tax under subchapter V of chapter 77 on any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, sold in the county.
(b) Nothing in this section prohibits a city, village or town that is authorized to exercise village powers under s. 60.22 (3) from enacting an ordinance or adopting a resolution that restricts the discharge of a firearm.
(4)(a) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision from continuing to enforce an ordinance or resolution that is in effect on November 18, 1995, and that regulates the sale, purchase, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, if the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.
(am) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision from continuing to enforce until November 30, 1998, an ordinance or resolution that is in effect on November 18, 1995, and that requires a waiting period of not more than 7 days for the purchase of a handgun.
(b) If a political subdivision has in effect on November 17, 1995, an ordinance or resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or
taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, and the ordinance or resolution is not the same as or similar to a state statute, the ordinance or resolution shall have no legal effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance or resolution on or after November 18, 1995.
(c) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision from enacting and enforcing a zoning ordinance that regulates the new construction of a sport shooting range or when the expansion of an existing sport shooting range would impact public health and safety.
(5) A county ordinance that is enacted or a county resolution that is adopted by a county under sub. (2) or a county ordinance or resolution that remains in effect under sub. (4) (a) or (am) applies only in those towns in the county that have not enacted an ordinance or adopted a resolution under sub. (2) or that continue to enforce an ordinance or resolution under sub. (4) (a) or (am), except that this subsection does not apply to a sales or use tax that is imposed under subchapter V of chapter 77.
Anyhow this statute from the city of Ellsworth
9.02 DISCHARGING AND CARRYING FIREARMS AND GUNS
PROHIBITED. No person, except a sheriff, constable, police
officer or their deputies, shall fire or discharge any firearm,
rifle, spring or air gun within the Village or have any
firearm, rifle, spring or air gun within the Village of have
any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun in his possession or
under his control unless it is unloaded and enclosed within a
carrying case or other suitable container, provided the Chief of
Police may grant a permit for such use for any lawful purpose
such as pest extermination to any adult resident of the Village
for not more than one year. Such permit shall be subject to
revocation by the Chief of Police at any time. The Chief of
Police shall keep a public record of the name and address of any
person to whom a permit is issued under this section. [Ord. 154,
222, 386]
is void as far as carrying a loaded firearm, but you still can't legally discharge it within city limits under the state preemption law. You may get an argument from law enforcement, but it is true. In fact one of the positive things you can do for the RKBA population of Wisconsin is to get your village board to change the ordnance to reflect what is actually legal.

As far as picking out a gun, my advice is to handle and, if possible, fire as many different makes and models as you can. The fit in your hand, the amount of recoil you can tolerate, whether or not you will be Open or Concealed carrying, and how willing you are to learn your weapon and practice with it all have a bearing on what you might adopt as your personal protection. You are in the right place to learn about carrying a gun but you will have to ask the right questions and search some of the old threads to find your answers, as well as get hands-on background. Like any other community, you will find that the quality of information varies widely; you will have to separate the wheat from the chaff as us geezers say.... :D
 

Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
Ehhhhh...... I don't think so. You need your permit to do this. Firearm is considered concealed by the vehicle body.

Site please.

Ok... Just trying to help the new guy here.... Let us not highjack this thread with this discussion that has already been covered extensively in other theads.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?93562-AG-Opinion-on-OC-in-Vehicle-W-O-Permit-Has-Been-Requested

Basically for clarification to the OP (Law abider), there is some confusioin as to the above issue based on one statute (167.31) changing the current law regarding only leagal carry in a vehicle firearm has to be unloaded and in a case. After Nov.1 that will no longer be the case under 167.31 says ok to open carry loaded and holstered in a vehicle.. another state statute or "Case Law" (?) says otherwise... that basically, the firearm has to be in plain view from anyone standing outside the vehicle. "We" are hoping for an opinion from the A.G. (Attorney General) on this question.. but not holding our breath for an answer...

This does not even need to be considered until Nov. 1. My suggestion to Law abider being NEW, would be to study the recomendations made in the begining of this thread and do not get confused buy things that are not even relavant until Nov. 1st.... by then, you will be "one of us" and can tackle this issue on Nov. 1st

Edited To Add... Also, If you plan on getting the Concealed Carry Permit (good idea to be (basically) legal within 1000 ft of a school) the the above issue becomes a moot point as with the permit, carrying in a vehicle either open or concealed will be legal...

As stated in an earlier post... "Welcome to the Fray"....

Outdoorsman1
 
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Law abider

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
1,164
Location
Ellsworth Wisconsin
Pierce county fair

I was just in Ellsworth. I OC'ed at the Pierce County Fair. I met up with another Open Carrier (Kerry from Pepin) there for awhile.

There is an Open Carry Picnic in Glenwood City this Sunday.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=234863926543383

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...Annual-Open-Carry-Picnic-Sunday-8-21-12pm-4pm


You show up and I guarentee will know everythhing you need to know before you leave.

I think I saw you at the fair. Maybe. Did you have a black shirt and a cap and were drinking pop?
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
davegran said:
you still can't legally discharge it within city limits under the state preemption law.
Under the new law, however, if it's done in self-defense they can't get you for discharging.
(That didn't sound quite right...)
See the right-hand column of page 4, section 35, where they discuss 167.31(4)(at).
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/acts/35.pdf

As far as picking out a gun, my advice is to handle and, if possible, fire as many different makes and models as you can.
^^^^ This.
A#1) Handle a lot of different pistols & find something that fits your hand, so you can control it.
A#2) Try to shoot everything on your short list, to make sure you can control it.
B) Fitting your budget & intended use(s) is almost as important.
C) Then consider caliber & capacity, which leads into the semi-auto / revolver debate.
D) Also things like how easy it is to take apart to clean, & if you want to add accessories is that possible.

(Personally, I prefer Glocks, but there are devotees of every brand & we'll all tell you what's great about our favorite. I'd even tell you what I dislike about Glocks, which was solved by the Springfield XD.)


Caliber is one of those heated debate topics...
For practice, target shooting, etc. .22 is economical.
For self-defense, I don't know of anyone who'd consider less than a .38 special.
(Yes, I know about people who have killed an attacker w/ 1 shot from a .22; they're lucky.)
I carry 9mm, & on the advice of the Glock rep I met this past Monday, will be upgrading to +P+ ammo for SD.


As for the "in a car is concealed" debate... yes, that has its own thread.
What the law says & what LEO / court might interpret it to mean can be rather different.

The new law says it's permissible to have a loaded handgun in or on a vehicle.
See the left-hand column of page 4, section 31, where it discusses 167.31(2)(b).
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/acts/35.pdf

Problem is that the cc law only makes an exception for people w/ permits, instead of just making it legal for anyone who can possess a firearm, & there's a ruling that some judge thinks a gun lying on the front seat of a car, covered only by air, is concealed.
(Although illegal drugs in that situation would be considered in "plain sight". Figure that one out.)

Clarification has been requested from On High. See thread referenced above for further discussion.
 
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