Perception, people, perception. Let's say, for argument's sake that you had to engage a person at the resturaunt using deadly force. The police arrive and found you to be in compliance with the law given the circumstances. However, after all their field interviews it was found that several other patrons stated that you had "a couple of beers"...WHAM! The media gets ahold of it, then it goes from "a couple of beers" to "he was seen stumbling" to "he was slurring his speech right before he shot the guy!" Then "new laws" will be demanded, blah, blah , blah...Do you see where this is going?
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
How much alcohol is too much when you open carry?
- Thread starter MSG Laigaie
- Start date
TechnoWeenie
Regular Member
I only had 2 beers before I shot him, I swear occifer!
tombrewster421
Regular Member
+1
It all comes down to self control. If you don't have it, you shouldn't be carrying.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
+1 Well said Lieutenant Commander.
I also agree with Gogo's ambassador statement.
I will have one beer,drink,glass of wine when CCing but not when OCing. 1 drink is not going to impare the vast majority of people even if you are involved in a shooting,God forbid, a single drink is not going to put you in much if any legal jeopardy.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
Why would you say anything to a cop after a defensive shooting much less I only had 2 beers???????
Why would you drink beer knowing that at anytime you may have to draw your weapon in public is the bigger question? :arrow: IMHO
TechnoWeenie
Regular Member
2 beers, that's all I had sir.. 2 beers ignore the 3 empty six packs on the floorboard, I only had 2 beers.
G20-IWB24/7
Regular Member
With respect Navy, I don't see mind-altering chemical consumption mixed with firearms as the most responsible combination, anywhere or at any time. Rephrase the semantics however you like, but it's about looking at the entire picture.
Say there's two otherwise identical groups of people (unknown to you) shooting at otherwise identical gravel pits. One group is drinking alcohol, the other soft drinks. Which pit are you going to feel most comfortable setting up with your family at?
I very rarely trust other peoples' handling of firearms, simply because I've seen far too many bonehead moves by people who should supposedly know better. Am I willing to add alcohol to the mix and expect that things will magically improve? Not likely.
Let me put it this way: I see no benefit to it, legally, morally, responsibility-wise, public-perception-wise or for a slew of other reasons. I can see many degrees where it could work against someone. Weigh the options and it is HEAVILY tipped in favor of non-consumption.
Say there's two otherwise identical groups of people (unknown to you) shooting at otherwise identical gravel pits. One group is drinking alcohol, the other soft drinks. Which pit are you going to feel most comfortable setting up with your family at?
I very rarely trust other peoples' handling of firearms, simply because I've seen far too many bonehead moves by people who should supposedly know better. Am I willing to add alcohol to the mix and expect that things will magically improve? Not likely.
Let me put it this way: I see no benefit to it, legally, morally, responsibility-wise, public-perception-wise or for a slew of other reasons. I can see many degrees where it could work against someone. Weigh the options and it is HEAVILY tipped in favor of non-consumption.
Jayd1981
Regular Member
I don't think the discussion is about drinking while shooting. Pretty much everyone can agree that being intoxidated and having a firearm isn't a good idea. But being intoxicated and having a drink with a meal are worlds apart. It is illegal to carry a firearm into a bar, so drinking and carrying there is a moot point. The only time you would legally be drinking and carrying generally would be at a private residence or a restraunt. I go back to my original statement that you shouldn't be drunk and carrying a firearm, but it is not my place to say someone cannot enjoy a beer or a glass of wine with dinner while they are legally armed.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
OK I see what you mean now. See you Saturday.
G20-IWB24/7
Regular Member
Possession and control of a weapon is the same regardless of if one is at a range or carrying it on their person... not a straw-man argument...
And PERSONALLY, I don't limit it to only 'drinking in publick only with a firearm.' I don't drink at all, so I don't just limit it to your specific set of circumstances. If I drink, I can't drive (part of work), I can't work (I'm on-call almost 24/7), and it limits all of those things discussed previously. Plus, I just don't see a benefit that outweighs the consequences... On that part, I wholeheartedly agree with your 'why limit'-scenario... and live it every day.
Whitney
Regular Member
What is the difference
Lets say I was having a social gathering at my home with several people in attendance and alcohol was being consumed, and lets say I have had "a drink". For whatever reason the circumstance arose that I shot a person in self defense.
How is this situation any different than a public encounter?
My scenario is purposefully ambiguous because personal responsibility and accountability is the point.
~Whitney
Lets say I was having a social gathering at my home with several people in attendance and alcohol was being consumed, and lets say I have had "a drink". For whatever reason the circumstance arose that I shot a person in self defense.
How is this situation any different than a public encounter?
My scenario is purposefully ambiguous because personal responsibility and accountability is the point.
~Whitney
Tawnos
Regular Member
It depends. Am I driving? What company am I in?
Can't answer without knowing the situation. I'm at home right now OC with a new riflescope I'm putting on a gun. Just had some delicious mead. I would still drive, and thus would feel fine doing the same thing out at a restaurant or elsewhere. However, on Sunday I did a bike ride that involved a lot of drinking. None of the places I went were strictly 21+, but I still didn't carry. I wasn't going to drive home, I was in mixed company I didn't know well, and it therefore didn't seem a good idea. Yet almost every week I open carry to All Purpose Pizza, have a couple beers with my pizza, and drive or bike home.
In general, I'd say my limit is "would I be comfortable with somebody else of my body weight driving me home after consuming this amount?" If the answer is "yes", then I think it's no different from carrying, if the answer is "no", I think it's fine.
Yeah yeah, flame on. My underpants are nomex!
Can't answer without knowing the situation. I'm at home right now OC with a new riflescope I'm putting on a gun. Just had some delicious mead. I would still drive, and thus would feel fine doing the same thing out at a restaurant or elsewhere. However, on Sunday I did a bike ride that involved a lot of drinking. None of the places I went were strictly 21+, but I still didn't carry. I wasn't going to drive home, I was in mixed company I didn't know well, and it therefore didn't seem a good idea. Yet almost every week I open carry to All Purpose Pizza, have a couple beers with my pizza, and drive or bike home.
In general, I'd say my limit is "would I be comfortable with somebody else of my body weight driving me home after consuming this amount?" If the answer is "yes", then I think it's no different from carrying, if the answer is "no", I think it's fine.
Yeah yeah, flame on. My underpants are nomex!
Tawnos
Regular Member
Definitions of moot (adj)
moot [ moot ] Audio player
arguable: open to argument or dispute
Also, were you "intoxidated" when writing this? >.>
Just kidding, of course, but I would like to debate your so-called moot point. In OR it's legal to carry into a bar. Do we see a slew of violence and disaster coming out of there that doesn't happen here? As far as I know, NH is the same. Same with NV, though they actually have a law that makes it illegal to be intoxicated. Texas has the 51% rule (and is CC only), so they're closer to here, but still... do we see any evidence that such laws or lack thereof lead to issues?
I would strongly argue that the keys in your pocket are a greater risk than the firearm on your hip, yet people seem to take one for granted and the other as extreme. Good self defense is good self defense, and a bad shot is a bad shot. You can argue all day about the decisions you might or might not make, but I don't think those factor into the actualities of the situation.
TechnoWeenie
Regular Member
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
Jayd1981
Regular Member
Definitions of moot (adj)
moot [ moot ] Audio player
arguable: open to argument or dispute
Also, were you "intoxidated" when writing this? >.>
Just kidding, of course, but I would like to debate your so-called moot point. In OR it's legal to carry into a bar. Do we see a slew of violence and disaster coming out of there that doesn't happen here? As far as I know, NH is the same. Same with NV, though they actually have a law that makes it illegal to be intoxicated. Texas has the 51% rule (and is CC only), so they're closer to here, but still... do we see any evidence that such laws or lack thereof lead to issues?
I would strongly argue that the keys in your pocket are a greater risk than the firearm on your hip, yet people seem to take one for granted and the other as extreme. Good self defense is good self defense, and a bad shot is a bad shot. You can argue all day about the decisions you might or might not make, but I don't think those factor into the actualities of the situation.
Hmm, I've always heard moot used to describe an argument that is irrelevant. Well I'm obviously not an english major, my degrees lie in IT. So while I may misuse a word, I can change your TCP/IP settings and reconfigure your DSL.
As far as my oppinion of whether we should be able to carry in a bar, I think it makes sense to be allowed to be armed where ever you might be. I don't think banning firearms from bars really lowers the chance of it being missused since a responsible firearm owner will be responsible even when having a beer. However an irresponsible firearm owner or criminal is going to be irresponsible regardless of the law or sign. So on that aspect we are in agreement.
Since we agree there, I doubt you believe a legal firearm owner should be disarmed just because they choose to have a beer or two where they are legally allowed to carry and consume alcohol. Having said all that, I'm not quite sure what I'm supposed to argue or debate with you about.
1245A Defender
Regular Member
well,,,
responsible driving, responsible carrying, and responsible drinking All go hand , in hand, in hand!
I have seem pics of my friends in public, carrying, eating dinner, and enjoying a delicious, refreshing, quaff of ale. no injuries to report...
If you cant drink responsibly, If you cant drive responsibly, If you cant carry responsibly,,, YOU should not do any of them!
I know how much I can drink and still stay safely well below the .08 legal limit for driving. I own my own alcohol breath meter!
Their is no Legal BAC for carrying, that I know of, but .08 would probably be a good yardstick for a limit!
I would not leave my house to drive if I was over .03! I would just NOT do it,, period!!
BTW!!! Here,, Hold my beer,,,, Watch This!!! :lol::lol::lol:
responsible driving, responsible carrying, and responsible drinking All go hand , in hand, in hand!
I have seem pics of my friends in public, carrying, eating dinner, and enjoying a delicious, refreshing, quaff of ale. no injuries to report...
If you cant drink responsibly, If you cant drive responsibly, If you cant carry responsibly,,, YOU should not do any of them!
I know how much I can drink and still stay safely well below the .08 legal limit for driving. I own my own alcohol breath meter!
Their is no Legal BAC for carrying, that I know of, but .08 would probably be a good yardstick for a limit!
I would not leave my house to drive if I was over .03! I would just NOT do it,, period!!
BTW!!! Here,, Hold my beer,,,, Watch This!!! :lol::lol::lol: