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Thread: Spread Sheet - County/City Ordinances - Stop & ID, CHP Reqs, Airguns, & Park Bans

  1. #126
    Regular Member drdan01's Avatar
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    Regarding all of that, if you have updated information regarding a specific locality is it preferable to include that discussion here or to start a separate thread? For example, I have updated information on the VA BH stop/ID law. Where should I be posting that?

  2. #127
    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdan01 View Post
    Regarding all of that, if you have updated information regarding a specific locality is it preferable to include that discussion here or to start a separate thread? For example, I have updated information on the VA BH stop/ID law. Where should I be posting that?
    there's a link to a public google doc spreadsheet in post #1 of this thread. i think you can edit it directly if you have new/updated info. i haven't actually tried it myself, though.

    hth
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

  3. #128
    Regular Member drdan01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    there's a link to a public google doc spreadsheet in post #1 of this thread. i think you can edit it directly if you have new/updated info. i haven't actually tried it myself, though.

    hth
    I'm thinking more along the line of having information to pass along and discuss (some follow-up that I did, the responses that I got, etc.) rather than what would likely go in the spreadsheet.

  4. #129
    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    i scrolled back through this thread and it looks like reports and discussion are happening right here in the thread.

    so... report away!
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

  5. #130
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I just noticed that HB 754 has been signed by the Governor! This law will directly affect about 1/3 of the localities in Virginia, as they will be required to modify their CHP process to remove the requirement to collect fingerprints.

    Also, once we see the final outcome of SB 563 (Restricts the clerk and the circuit court from requesting or requiring any information from an applicant other than that which is allowed on the concealed handgun permit application) (it is currently awaiting signature by the Governor), we may have additional changes to make to this grassroots effort.

    These two bills have gone a long way toward improving the CHP process for the citizens of Virginia.

    TFred

    ETA: I plan to stop by my local clerk's office in the morning to pick up a current CHP application, so I can review it, and send them a very nice and hopefully helpful summary of what will need to be changed on July 1st.
    Last edited by TFred; 03-11-2012 at 10:15 PM.

  6. #131
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I just noticed that HB 754 has been signed by the Governor! This law will directly affect about 1/3 of the localities in Virginia, as they will be required to modify their CHP process to remove the requirement to collect fingerprints.

    Also, once we see the final outcome of SB 563 (Restricts the clerk and the circuit court from requesting or requiring any information from an applicant other than that which is allowed on the concealed handgun permit application) (it is currently awaiting signature by the Governor), we may have additional changes to make to this grassroots effort.

    These two bills have gone a long way toward improving the CHP process for the citizens of Virginia.

    TFred

    ETA: I plan to stop by my local clerk's office in the morning to pick up a current CHP application, so I can review it, and send them a very nice and hopefully helpful summary of what will need to be changed on July 1st.
    SB 563 was signed by the Governor yesterday. Good news!

    TFred

  7. #132
    Regular Member B. Reddy's Avatar
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    So..... a non-hunter, with a sidearm holstered, openly carrying, while walking the dog along a public highway, is or is not OK? Maybe I'm just over-thinking that last phrase....

    Sec. 42-31. - Possession of loaded firearms prohibited

    (a)

    Pursuant to the authority of Code of Virginia, § 15.2-1209.1, it shall be unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession while on any part of a public highway within the county a loaded firearm when such person is not authorized to hunt on the private property on both sides of the highway along which he is standing or walking.

    This section shall not apply to persons carrying loaded firearms in moving vehicles, nor to persons acting at the time in defense of persons or property.

  8. #133
    Founder's Club Member Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Reddy View Post
    So..... a non-hunter, with a sidearm holstered, openly carrying, while walking the dog along a public highway, is or is not OK? Maybe I'm just over-thinking that last phrase....

    Sec. 42-31. - Possession of loaded firearms prohibited

    (a)

    Pursuant to the authority of Code of Virginia, § 15.2-1209.1, it shall be unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession while on any part of a public highway within the county a loaded firearm when such person is not authorized to hunt on the private property on both sides of the highway along which he is standing or walking.

    This section shall not apply to persons carrying loaded firearms in moving vehicles, nor to persons acting at the time in defense of persons or property.
    Believe you have confused that statute. Operative words (see below) are "for the purpose of hunting."
    Walking the dog is fine.


    § 15.2-1209.1. Counties may regulate carrying of loaded firearms on public highways.
    The governing body of any county is hereby empowered to adopt ordinances making it unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession,for the purpose of hunting, while on any part of a public highway within such county a loaded firearm when such person is not authorized to hunt on the private property on both sides of the highway along which he is standing or walking; and to provide a penalty for violation of such ordinance not to exceed a fine of $100. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons carrying loaded firearms in moving vehicles or for purposes other than hunting, or to persons acting at the time in defense of persons or property.

    Sec 42-31 also references "for the purpose of hunting" - goes to intent or actual conduct.
    http://orangecountyva.gov/Legislativ...20Firearms.pdf

    Not hunting - no problem.
    Beyond these strict limits is IMO a violation of Code of Virginia 15.2-915
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  9. #134
    Regular Member B. Reddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Believe you have confused that statute. Operative words (see below) are "for the purpose of hunting."
    Walking the dog is fine.
    (Thanks for the clarification.)

    Sec 42-31 also references "for the purpose of hunting" - goes to intent or actual conduct.
    http://orangecountyva.gov/Legislativ...20Firearms.pdf

    Not hunting - no problem.
    Beyond these strict limits is IMO a violation of Code of Virginia 15.2-915
    (Wow- it took my Board of Supervisors FOUR YEARS to bring county code into compliance with VA Code. My bad for not paying them enough attention. )

  10. #135
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    wow sesrun.... just wow. Thank you. this brings up a question. I thought that virginia had something in place that overruled local law making or ordinances at least as it pertains to OC. Maby someone has already posted something about thisand I just dident get it. Anyone have a plain jane explanation?
    Last edited by Tanner; 05-15-2012 at 04:58 AM.

  11. #136
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    wow sesrun.... just wow. Thank you. this brings up a question. I thought that virginia had something in place that overruled local law making or ordinances at least as it pertains to OC. Maby someone has already posted something about thisand I just dident get it. Anyone have a plain jane explanation?
    Dude, you're killing me.

    Ask a question in ONE thread! People read this stuff. Honest. I just wasted 5 minutes answering your question, because it was the first thread I opened, and then found out that someone else answered your exact same question in a different thread.

    Patience is a virtue.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 05-15-2012 at 09:06 AM.

  12. #137
    Founder's Club Member Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    wow sesrun.... just wow. Thank you. this brings up a question. I thought that virginia had something in place that overruled local law making or ordinances at least as it pertains to OC. Maby someone has already posted something about thisand I just dident get it. Anyone have a plain jane explanation?
    I know it is not your intent, but multiple posting of the same thing is considered spamming.

    You started a thread yesterday with this exact wording therein and it has been answered in some detail.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...62#post1754062

    This thread is dedicated to identifying and correcting those municipalities that are not in compliance. Anything else is off-topic.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  13. #138
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    I apoligise I have never used a forum like this where EVERYONE seemes to read the new threads. Im a school bus driver and belive me when I say that my job is the embodiment of patience. I acctually dident even mean to post anything on this thread. I followed a link from a thread I started and forgot that I was redirected to your thread. When I realized it wasent my thread i figured what the heck the more people that answer the queson the better. I do read what everyone take the time to post. My suggestion is to just kick the noob in the rear and tell him to never open his mouth again.

  14. #139
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    .... My suggestion is to just kick the noob in the rear and tell him to never open his mouth again.
    While that might at times be rather tempting, we will probably pass on it - for now.

    To restate - there is no bucket of "stuff" we can just pour into your head to make you have the knowledge and experience of the group as a whole, or even as much as some of the more experienced and/or learned individuals have. Plus, for every "answer" there is a caveat and at least one exception.

    Why not slow down, curb your enthusiasm just a bit, and ask specific questions about specific issues you actually encounter, instead of running around asking "What if" for everything you might imagine.

    I can't speak for anyone else, but on a personal note you seem to be pretty bound and determined to ask for answers to be handed to you as opposed to looking up information and checking to see if the understanding you arrive at is accurate. That's just asking us to pour a bucket of "stuff" in your head piecemeal. It also probably will hinder your ability to understand why certain things are they way they are and why we react/respond to those things as we do.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  15. #140
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    Understood skid. Its simple I am trying to learn or "cram" as much knowledge as possible in a short amount of time. I want to OC but am concerned about overlooking something. at this point I belive I have the basic info but ignorance of the law is no excuse and that is what scares me about it. And my motto is to work smart, not hard. I make no claim to understand how the laws are written. It is easier to get someone elses input on what it means than read jargon packed page after jargon packed page of law. For now on I will stick to my own threads to get some answers so I stop mucking up other peoples stuff.

  16. #141
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    My suggestion is to just kick the noob in the rear and tell him to never open his mouth again.


    There may be hope for you Tanner.

  17. #142
    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    but ignorance of the law is no excuse
    Unless you're a cop....

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

  18. #143
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Mr. H,
    First, please allow me to apologize for the delay in response to your inquiry.

    I do recall your recent email regarding SB757. At that time, the email was forwarded to the County Administrator, Barry Clark and the County Attorney for review.

    I just spoke with Mr. Clark regarding SB757. It is my understanding that the County Code will need to be revised to reflect the recently approved State legislation regarding the shooting of pneumatic firearms.

    This is a County Code reference, which is updated through the County Administration office. If you have any additional questions or concerns, do not hesitate to contact the County Administration Office at (434) 985-5201.

    However, if I can be of further assistance please let me know.

    Bart J. Svoboda
    Planning Director
    County of Greene, Virginia
    (434) 985-5282



    I kind of let this slide as I had other issues to deal with but finally.
    "The Second Amendment similarly appears to contain an express limitation on the government's authority. If the Second Amendment is read to confer a personal right to 'keep and bear arms,' a colorable argument exists that the Federal Government's regulatory scheme, at least as it pertains to possession of firearms, runs afoul of that amendment's protections" (U.S. v. Printz, 1997) ~Clarence Thomas (SPJ)

  19. #144
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post

    This is a County Code reference, which is updated through the County Administration office.
    I kind of let this slide as I had other issues to deal with but finally.
    Are they saying that all their county ordinances are just "declared into existence" by the County Administrator? Is that legal?

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 05-23-2012 at 11:46 PM.

  20. #145
    Founder's Club Member Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Are they saying that all their county ordinances are just "declared into existence" by the County Administrator? Is that legal?

    TFred
    I believe that refers to the updating or posting ordinances after they have been properly approved.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  21. #146
    Regular Member B. Reddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Are they saying that all their county ordinances are just "declared into existence" by the County Administrator? Is that legal?

    TFred
    TFred-

    It appears Mr. Svoboda was just being helpful by suggesting future county ordinance queries be directed to the County Administrator when he wrote: "This is a County Code reference, which is updated through the County Administration office. "

    Mr. Svoboda is the Planning Director, and deals with zoning and growth issues. I know the man, he's good people.


    Mr. H,
    First, please allow me to apologize for the delay in response to your inquiry.

    I do recall your recent email regarding SB757. At that time, the email was forwarded to the County Administrator, Barry Clark and the County Attorney for review.

    I just spoke with Mr. Clark regarding SB757. It is my understanding that the County Code will need to be revised to reflect the recently approved State legislation regarding the shooting of pneumatic firearms.

    This is a County Code reference, which is updated through the County Administration office. If you have any additional questions or concerns, do not hesitate to contact the County Administration Office at (434) 985-5201.

    However, if I can be of further assistance please let me know.

    Bart J. Svoboda
    Planning Director
    County of Greene, Virginia
    (434) 985-5282

  22. #147
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Reddy View Post
    TFred-

    It appears Mr. Svoboda was just being helpful by suggesting future county ordinance queries be directed to the County Administrator when he wrote: "This is a County Code reference, which is updated through the County Administration office. "

    Mr. Svoboda is the Planning Director, and deals with zoning and growth issues. I know the man, he's good people.
    That's how I took it. Bart was only included because he was the person who spoke with me at the BOS meeting when I first brought this to everyones attention.
    Bart also happen to be the first person to email me regaqrding the issue.
    I concur he does seem to be a stand up guy.


    Marco,

    Thanks for discovering this discrepancy. We will need to follow our attorney's advice and the public hearing rules, but we are working on this update.

    Jim Frydl
    I received this email today.
    I my effort to me more invloved I plan to attend as many BOS meeting as possible.
    The wife thinks I should run for a vacant seat next time around... I don't think they (politicians etc) are ready for someone like me to be that involved....

    besides the shorts and sandals might turn folks off
    "The Second Amendment similarly appears to contain an express limitation on the government's authority. If the Second Amendment is read to confer a personal right to 'keep and bear arms,' a colorable argument exists that the Federal Government's regulatory scheme, at least as it pertains to possession of firearms, runs afoul of that amendment's protections" (U.S. v. Printz, 1997) ~Clarence Thomas (SPJ)

  23. #148
    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post
    The wife thinks I should run for a vacant seat next time around... I don't think they (politicians etc) are ready for someone like me to be that involved....

    besides the shorts and sandals might turn folks off
    get on the ballot, Marco, and i'll vote for ya!
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

  24. #149
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    I'm willing to contact my home town of Altavista, whose code states:

    Sec. 50-4. - Acts prohibited in town parks.

    (a)
    It shall be unlawful for any person to commit or attempt to commit any of the following acts while on the premises of Shreve Park, Staunton Riverboat Park and all other parks in the town: archery, climbing on waterwheel or wading in the fountain (in Shreve Park), damaging signs, equipment or facilities, golf practice, possession of firearms of any type....

    As it happens, I'll be visiting their parks next weekend. I know this may seem paranoid, but Virginia 15.2.915 makes the above ordinance invalid, correct?

    Would it be of help to have a copy of the VA statute in case I'm confronted by an LEO?
    Thanks,
    Dave
    Last edited by d dubya; 05-24-2012 at 11:02 PM.

  25. #150
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d dubya View Post
    I'm willing to contact my home town of Altavista, whose code states:

    Sec. 50-4. - Acts prohibited in town parks.

    (a)
    It shall be unlawful for any person to commit or attempt to commit any of the following acts while on the premises of Shreve Park, Staunton Riverboat Park and all other parks in the town: archery, climbing on waterwheel or wading in the fountain (in Shreve Park), damaging signs, equipment or facilities, golf practice, possession of firearms of any type....

    As it happens, I'll be visiting their parks next weekend. I know this may seem paranoid, but Virginia 15.2.915 makes the above ordinance invalid, correct?

    Would it be of help to have a copy of the VA statute in case I'm confronted by an LEO?
    Thanks,
    Dave
    IMHO, you're best bet is to contact the attorney for the locality and politely inform them of the ordinance that is invalid, providing reference to 15.2-915.

    You won't win a dispute "on the side of the road" with any LEO, and there is court precedence (although out of our US district) that excuses LEOs for enforcing invalid laws, because "how could they know?" The ever present double standard...

    If you wish to openly flaunt the ordinance, be prepared for a ticket and/or arrest, and make sure you have your voice recorder running and your attorney's phone number on your speed dial.

    TFred

    PS: Looks like they are in violation of the pneumatic gun change as well. ETA: Second look, it appears they tried to fix the code by adding section 46-182.1, but they left 46-182 alone, including the pneumatic gun being included in the definition of "firearm", rendering that section invalid. Looks like they have a bunch of amateurs writing their ordinances down there...
    Last edited by TFred; 05-25-2012 at 12:19 AM.

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