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Thread: Spread Sheet - County/City Ordinances - Stop & ID, CHP Reqs, Airguns, & Park Bans

  1. #1
    Regular Member Sesrun's Avatar
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    Spread Sheet - County/City Ordinances - Stop & ID, CHP Reqs, Airguns, & Park Bans

    Moderatore note - Please leave this thread stickied as it is a work in progress & serious reference material.
    Over the past week I have put together an excel sheet listing 157 Counties/Cities/Towns and have been able to look through 129 of their ordinances for Stop & ID, additional CHP requirements, airgun bans (it is good to know what is still on the books), and Park bans. With in the notes section are other laws I found disturbing and some of which may fall under preemption. I hope this information is a help to the OC community. As a disclaimer I did the best of my ability to look through the codes and understand them, however, mistakes are not impossible to prevent and IANAL. This file is by no means legal advice, however, it may help OC advocates who are residents of these counties/cities/towns be able to take initiative to make changes. I have worked on Roanoke County and will be continuing to press to see laws changed.

    The link below is to the public Google Doc (you do not need a sign in). You can download it by opening the link and clicking File->Download->Excel.

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...dfWVE&hl=en_US

    (towns are in plane black and have host county listed in parenthesis)
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-19-2013 at 11:55 PM. Reason: fixed title - added Y to county

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Wow. That is an amazing amount of work!

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Wow! Thanks for taking the time do do this and sharing it with everyone!
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Please accept my humble commendation for your efforts.

    A fine example of taking the initiative without being accused of theft.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the great work. Warrenton, air gun ban, section 11.51....

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    It appears that all the Towns are missing. I have no idea how many Towns there are in Virginia... maybe you could set up a second tab for them? (As if you need more work to do! )

    Towns are not completely independent of the counties in which they reside, but they do have their own ordinances, and as noted, many are not in compliance with either the new air gun code, or the general 15.2-915 Firearms code.

    TFred

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    Great job!

    Looks like there is some work to do with some counties regarding air guns etc... I might start with one later tonight or tomorrow.

    Thanks for putting this together, and sharing it with others.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Sesrun's Avatar
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    I am currently working to at least add all of the towns to the spreadsheet tonight and start working on reviewing ordinances/codes that are available. Thanks for pointing it out.

  9. #9
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesrun View Post
    I am currently working to at least add all of the towns to the spreadsheet tonight and start working on reviewing ordinances/codes that are available. Thanks for pointing it out.
    Oh, thank YOU for putting this together. We've been talking about something like this for years!

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Oh, thank YOU for putting this together. We've been talking about something like this for years!

    TFred
    \\+1

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    Are county parks preempted?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    Are county parks preempted?
    Yes.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Yes.

    stay safe.
    It would appear a lot of counties are enacting legislation that is preempted. Maybe a penalty similar to FL would be a good idea.

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    Email sent to Prince George County Attorney pointing out likely conflict between State preemption reg 15.2-915 and County ordinance 58-21 regarding dangerous devices in county parks. Asked him to respond with how and when on correction. Will report as situation proceeds.

    Thanks to Sesrun for the info.

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    Thank you Sesrun....
    Great work!
    Larry

  16. #16
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    One thing this will allow us to do is collect metrics on how these jurisdictions respond to requests to come into compliance.

    If we can gather proof that a significant number of jurisdictions are ignoring the law, that would give us a good reason to press for a Florida-style preemption law passed here.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Great work!
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
    -- George Washington

  18. #18
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Some further thoughts.

    One of the values of maintaining a public repository of this information is for the local folks to know when it is appropriate for them to contact their jurisdiction managers, Supervisors or Councilmen/women.

    At the same time, it would be equally important to ensure that we don't have 2 or 3 dozen people doing that all together.

    My suggestion would be to add a column or two to somehow capture the progress of our collective efforts to fix these shortcomings.

    Remember, by and large for the very most part, these are folks who are just trying to do their jobs, most if not all County and City legislators are part-time, poorly paid jobs. Support staff (County/City attorneys and managers) are all trying to do their best with limited and ever-shrinking budgets.

    I'm not saying we should not make the effort, but we do need to be reasonable in our efforts, and remember that we are trying to make friends for our cause, not enemies. We have enough of those already.

    Finally, what it comes down to is that we are trying to do them a favor. As the law is written, if they have ordinances on the books in violation of the code, they are exposed to litigation and the costs when they lose.

    Not all of them see it that way, but that's how it is.

    Just some thoughts...

    TFred

  19. #19
    Regular Member Sesrun's Avatar
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    The spreadsheet linked in the first post is now publicly editable. Please know that whatever changes you make will be saved.

    As suggested by TFred three columns have been added to the right of all jurisdictions. The first column will hold the username(s) of those working on the localities issues, the second will hold the progress of such contacts, and the third column will hold the group contact. As TFred pointed out, due caution is needed when contacting these localities. Know when to press the issues at hand and when to back off and seek the help of VCDL, we do not need any more enemies.

  20. #20
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    Maybe a "sticky" on this one?

  21. #21
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    I say the more the merrier. I email 7 of the 13 counties pertaining to park carry last night and plan on writing the others tonight.

    King William County
    from Trenton Funkhouser countyadmin@kingwilliamcounty.us
    to Clement <cyras21@gmail.com>
    cc tredd@kingwilliamcounty.us,
    dwright@kingwilliamcounty.us,
    cschools@kingwilliamcounty.us,
    tsmiley@kingwilliamcounty.us
    date Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 2:28 PM
    subject RE: County Code - Dangerous Devices
    mailed-by kingwilliamcounty.us
    Important mainly because it was sent directly to you.
    hide details 2:28 PM (2 hours ago)
    I will forward your e-mail to the County Attorney for consideration and, following such consideration, can advise you of what action(s) the County intends to take in this matter.

    Thank you for sharing your concern/question with me.

    Trenton L. Funkhouser, AICP, CM
    County Administrator
    King William County
    Post Office Box 215
    180 Horse Landing Road
    King William VA, 23086
    (804) 769-4926
    (804) 769-4964 fax
    countyadmin@kingwilliamcounty.us
    www.kingwilliamcounty.us



    Roanoke County
    from Paul Mahoney pmahoney@roanokecountyva.gov
    to Clement <cyras21@gmail.com>,
    Roanoke County Admistration <administration@roanokecountyva.gov>,
    Board of Supervisors <BOS@roanokecountyva.gov>,
    Michael Winston <MWINSTON@roanokecountyva.gov>
    date Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:36 AM
    subject Re: County Code
    mailed-by roanokecountyva.gov
    Important mainly because of your interaction with messages in the conversation.
    hide details 8:36 AM (8 hours ago)
    Dear Mr. Bourg:

    Thank you for your inquiry regarding Roanoke County's Ordinance Section 15-8 which governs prohibited uses or conduct in our county's parks. The Virginia Code section 15.2-915 to which you make reference makes specific exception for local ordinances relating to firearms which are expressly authorized by state statute. Roanoke County's ordinance specifically incorporates that provision. This office had carefully considered the legislation adopted by the Virginia General Assembly, and analyzed that legislation with reference to existing County Code provisions. In March of 2008 we recommended that the Board of Supervisors consider an amendment to Section 15-8 of the Roanoke County Code to bring it in to compliance with Section 15.2-915 of the Code of Virginia. The Board accepted our recommendation and adopted Ordinance #032508-7. This amendment cured any infirmity.
    Roanoke County makes every effort to insure that our county code is in compliance with the requirements of Virginia law. Thank you again for your inquiry.

    Paul M. Mahoney
    Roanoke County Attorney

    Mr. Mahoney,

    I reread Roanoke's code.

    Since no State legislation prohibits a person lawfully allowed to poses a firearm from carrying said firearm in any park, Roanoke's ordinance is confusing and maybe purposely misleading.

    As written Roanoke's code is an injustice to the people wishing to enjoy the outdoors while taking the responsibility of their personal protection in their hands.

    Shame on Roanoke!

    from Barbara Notar BNotar@leesburgva.gov
    to Clement <cyras21@gmail.com>
    cc John Wells <JWells@leesburgva.gov>,
    Kristen Umstattd <KUmstattd@leesburgva.gov>
    date Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 9:29 AM
    subject RE: Town Code
    mailed-by leesburgva.gov
    Important mainly because it was sent directly to you.
    hide details 9:29 AM (7 hours ago)



    Town of Leesburg
    Mr. Bourg,

    The Town Code was amended in June to comport with the State Code. Municode updates the Town Code online on a quarterly basis so the amendments are not yet reflected on the website. To read several code amendments that occurred in June, click on Ordinance No. 2011-O-013 on the Town website. In the meantime, the section you cite in your email now states:

    Sec. 26-24 (5) Hunting and firearms.

    No person in a park shall hunt, trap or pursue wildlife at any time. No person within a park shall carry or possess bow and arrows, slings, or similar weapon or any kind of trapping device. Discharging firearms into park areas from beyond park property boundaries is forbidden. Discharging a firearm in violation of Virginia Code Section 18.2-280 is prohibited. No person within a park shall conceal weapons in violation of Virginia Code Section 18.2-308. No person shall discharge a pneumatic gun in the park pursuant to Virginia Code Section 15.2-915.4.

    If you have any further questions or comments, please let me know.

    Barbara Notar

    Barbara Notar
    Deputy Town Attorney
    Town of Leesburg
    25 W. Market St.
    PO Box 88
    Leesburg, VA 20178
    703-737-7000 (phone)
    703-737-7025 (fax)
    bnotar@leesburgva.gov

  22. #22
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    I say the more the merrier. I email 7 of the 13 counties pertaining to park carry last night and plan on writing the others tonight.

    Roanoke County
    from Paul Mahoney pmahoney@roanokecountyva.gov
    to Clement <cyras21@gmail.com>,
    Roanoke County Admistration <administration@roanokecountyva.gov>,
    Board of Supervisors <BOS@roanokecountyva.gov>,
    Michael Winston <MWINSTON@roanokecountyva.gov>
    date Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:36 AM
    subject Re: County Code
    mailed-by roanokecountyva.gov
    Important mainly because of your interaction with messages in the conversation.
    hide details 8:36 AM (8 hours ago)
    Dear Mr. Bourg:

    Thank you for your inquiry regarding Roanoke County's Ordinance Section 15-8 which governs prohibited uses or conduct in our county's parks. The Virginia Code section 15.2-915 to which you make reference makes specific exception for local ordinances relating to firearms which are expressly authorized by state statute. Roanoke County's ordinance specifically incorporates that provision. This office had carefully considered the legislation adopted by the Virginia General Assembly, and analyzed that legislation with reference to existing County Code provisions. In March of 2008 we recommended that the Board of Supervisors consider an amendment to Section 15-8 of the Roanoke County Code to bring it in to compliance with Section 15.2-915 of the Code of Virginia. The Board accepted our recommendation and adopted Ordinance #032508-7. This amendment cured any infirmity.
    Roanoke County makes every effort to insure that our county code is in compliance with the requirements of Virginia law. Thank you again for your inquiry.

    Paul M. Mahoney
    Roanoke County Attorney

    Mr. Mahoney,

    I reread Roanoke's code.

    Since no State legislation prohibits a person lawfully allowed to poses a firearm from carrying said firearm in any park, Roanoke's ordinance is confusing and maybe purposely misleading.

    As written Roanoke's code is an injustice to the people wishing to enjoy the outdoors while taking the responsibility of their personal protection in their hands.

    Shame on Roanoke!
    Roanoke's reply is BS.

    Their code states, in one horribly long drawn-out sentence:


    No person in a park shall:

    Hunting and firearms. Hunt, trap or pursue wildlife at any time. Trapping may be authorized, by permit, when it is deemed by the director that said activity is in the best interest of public health, safety and/or welfare. No person shall within a park use, carry or possess firearms, ammunition or combinations thereof, as expressly prohibited by statute, or air rifles, spring guns, pellet guns, paintball guns, bow and arrows, slings or any other forms of weapons potentially dangerous to wildlife and to human safety or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges, or any kind of trapping device.


    15.2-915 is quite clear. They are not allowed to have any code on the books unless that code is specifically authorized by the Code of Virginia. I assume the writer is referring to the red text as their attempt to defy the code. But the code is clear. You are not even allowed to have local codes that copy state codes, unless specifically authorized. Show me that authorization.

    If they are going to play that game, these folks may be the ones that require litigation, and hopefully award of costs and very high fees! Once Skidmark's case is done, hopefully User will be bored and looking for fun projects like this...

    TFred

  23. #23
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    Thank you for the work. I vote for a sticky.
    Last edited by Lolcanoe; 08-20-2011 at 01:03 PM.
    3. Move thumb safety down taking gun off safety. Caution: The gun is now ready to fire. Be prepared for noise and recoil when pistol fires.

  24. #24
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    bump, so it isn't lost.
    3. Move thumb safety down taking gun off safety. Caution: The gun is now ready to fire. Be prepared for noise and recoil when pistol fires.

  25. #25
    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
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    Thank you so much for the info and the effort that went into putting it all together.

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