Spread Sheet - County/City Ordinances - Stop & ID, CHP Reqs, Airguns, & Park Bans

I say the more the merrier. I email 7 of the 13 counties pertaining to park carry last night and plan on writing the others tonight.

King William County
from Trenton Funkhouser countyadmin@kingwilliamcounty.us
to Clement <cyras21@gmail.com>
cc tredd@kingwilliamcounty.us,
dwright@kingwilliamcounty.us,
cschools@kingwilliamcounty.us,
tsmiley@kingwilliamcounty.us
date Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 2:28 PM
subject RE: County Code - Dangerous Devices
mailed-by kingwilliamcounty.us
Important mainly because it was sent directly to you.
hide details 2:28 PM (2 hours ago)
I will forward your e-mail to the County Attorney for consideration and, following such consideration, can advise you of what action(s) the County intends to take in this matter.

Thank you for sharing your concern/question with me.

Trenton L. Funkhouser, AICP, CM
County Administrator
King William County
Post Office Box 215
180 Horse Landing Road
King William VA, 23086
(804) 769-4926
(804) 769-4964 fax
countyadmin@kingwilliamcounty.us
www.kingwilliamcounty.us



Roanoke County
from Paul Mahoney pmahoney@roanokecountyva.gov
to Clement <cyras21@gmail.com>,
Roanoke County Admistration <administration@roanokecountyva.gov>,
Board of Supervisors <BOS@roanokecountyva.gov>,
Michael Winston <MWINSTON@roanokecountyva.gov>
date Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:36 AM
subject Re: County Code
mailed-by roanokecountyva.gov
Important mainly because of your interaction with messages in the conversation.
hide details 8:36 AM (8 hours ago)
Dear Mr. Bourg:

Thank you for your inquiry regarding Roanoke County's Ordinance Section 15-8 which governs prohibited uses or conduct in our county's parks. The Virginia Code section 15.2-915 to which you make reference makes specific exception for local ordinances relating to firearms which are expressly authorized by state statute. Roanoke County's ordinance specifically incorporates that provision. This office had carefully considered the legislation adopted by the Virginia General Assembly, and analyzed that legislation with reference to existing County Code provisions. In March of 2008 we recommended that the Board of Supervisors consider an amendment to Section 15-8 of the Roanoke County Code to bring it in to compliance with Section 15.2-915 of the Code of Virginia. The Board accepted our recommendation and adopted Ordinance #032508-7. This amendment cured any infirmity.
Roanoke County makes every effort to insure that our county code is in compliance with the requirements of Virginia law. Thank you again for your inquiry.

Paul M. Mahoney
Roanoke County Attorney

Mr. Mahoney,

I reread Roanoke's code.

Since no State legislation prohibits a person lawfully allowed to poses a firearm from carrying said firearm in any park, Roanoke's ordinance is confusing and maybe purposely misleading.

As written Roanoke's code is an injustice to the people wishing to enjoy the outdoors while taking the responsibility of their personal protection in their hands.

Shame on Roanoke!

from Barbara Notar BNotar@leesburgva.gov
to Clement <cyras21@gmail.com>
cc John Wells <JWells@leesburgva.gov>,
Kristen Umstattd <KUmstattd@leesburgva.gov>
date Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 9:29 AM
subject RE: Town Code
mailed-by leesburgva.gov
Important mainly because it was sent directly to you.
hide details 9:29 AM (7 hours ago)



Town of Leesburg
Mr. Bourg,

The Town Code was amended in June to comport with the State Code. Municode updates the Town Code online on a quarterly basis so the amendments are not yet reflected on the website. To read several code amendments that occurred in June, click on Ordinance No. 2011-O-013 on the Town website. In the meantime, the section you cite in your email now states:

Sec. 26-24 (5) Hunting and firearms.

No person in a park shall hunt, trap or pursue wildlife at any time. No person within a park shall carry or possess bow and arrows, slings, or similar weapon or any kind of trapping device. Discharging firearms into park areas from beyond park property boundaries is forbidden. Discharging a firearm in violation of Virginia Code Section 18.2-280 is prohibited. No person within a park shall conceal weapons in violation of Virginia Code Section 18.2-308. No person shall discharge a pneumatic gun in the park pursuant to Virginia Code Section 15.2-915.4.

If you have any further questions or comments, please let me know.

Barbara Notar

Barbara Notar
Deputy Town Attorney
Town of Leesburg
25 W. Market St.
PO Box 88
Leesburg, VA 20178
703-737-7000 (phone)
703-737-7025 (fax)
bnotar@leesburgva.gov

cyras21 said:

I say the more the merrier. I email 7 of the 13 counties pertaining to park carry last night and plan on writing the others tonight.

Roanoke County
from Paul Mahoney pmahoney@roanokecountyva.gov
to Clement <cyras21@gmail.com>,
Roanoke County Admistration <administration@roanokecountyva.gov>,
Board of Supervisors <BOS@roanokecountyva.gov>,
Michael Winston <MWINSTON@roanokecountyva.gov>
date Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:36 AM
subject Re: County Code
mailed-by roanokecountyva.gov
Important mainly because of your interaction with messages in the conversation.
hide details 8:36 AM (8 hours ago)
Dear Mr. Bourg:

Thank you for your inquiry regarding Roanoke County's Ordinance Section 15-8 which governs prohibited uses or conduct in our county's parks. The Virginia Code section 15.2-915 to which you make reference makes specific exception for local ordinances relating to firearms which are expressly authorized by state statute. Roanoke County's ordinance specifically incorporates that provision. This office had carefully considered the legislation adopted by the Virginia General Assembly, and analyzed that legislation with reference to existing County Code provisions. In March of 2008 we recommended that the Board of Supervisors consider an amendment to Section 15-8 of the Roanoke County Code to bring it in to compliance with Section 15.2-915 of the Code of Virginia. The Board accepted our recommendation and adopted Ordinance #032508-7. This amendment cured any infirmity.
Roanoke County makes every effort to insure that our county code is in compliance with the requirements of Virginia law. Thank you again for your inquiry.

Paul M. Mahoney
Roanoke County Attorney

Mr. Mahoney,

I reread Roanoke's code.

Since no State legislation prohibits a person lawfully allowed to poses a firearm from carrying said firearm in any park, Roanoke's ordinance is confusing and maybe purposely misleading.

As written Roanoke's code is an injustice to the people wishing to enjoy the outdoors while taking the responsibility of their personal protection in their hands.

Shame on Roanoke!

Click to expand...

Roanoke's reply is BS.

Their code states, in one horribly long drawn-out sentence:




15.2-915 is quite clear. They are not allowed to have any code on the books unless that code is specifically authorized by the Code of Virginia. I assume the writer is referring to the red text as their attempt to defy the code. But the code is clear. You are not even allowed to have local codes that copy state codes, unless specifically authorized. Show me that authorization.

If they are going to play that game, these folks may be the ones that require litigation, and hopefully award of costs and very high fees! Once Skidmark's case is done, hopefully User will be bored and looking for fun projects like this...

TFred

Thank you for the work. I vote for a sticky.

bump, so it isn't lost.

Thank you so much for the info and the effort that went into putting it all together.

Sesrun,
Thank you for your magnum opus!

I agree that this should be a sticky, as it will be a valuable reference tool. I hope that people with your skill and ability will use your work as a template for their own. I also strongly agree with TFred's comments about being courteous and reasonably patient when dealing with public figures in local offices. We know how to deal with foot-draggers and intentionally obstructive people once we've identified them: notify VCDL.

What would we do without computers! All of this activist work would have been nearly impossible otherwise! And to think that when I was a kid, I considered the abacus to be pretty amazing!

Just wondering if VCDL been given a copy of this spreadsheet?

If so, should they be copied on any attempts to get a local code correct? (and exactly 'who' within VCDL should be copied?).

VCDL monitors this site

VCDL President and several members of the executive board are regular posters here. I have no doubt they have this data.

The Wolfhound said:

VCDL President and several members of the executive board are regular posters here. I have no doubt they have this data.

Click to expand...

Ok... I guess if they want a copy of the requests sent to the various localities.... they will speak up then.

Dutch Uncle said:

Sesrun,
Thank you for your magnum opus!

I agree that this should be a sticky, as it will be a valuable reference tool. I hope that people with your skill and ability will use your work as a template for their own. I also strongly agree with TFred's comments about being courteous and reasonably patient when dealing with public figures in local offices. We know how to deal with foot-draggers and intentionally obstructive people once we've identified them: notify VCDL.

What would we do without computers! All of this activist work would have been nearly impossible otherwise! And to think that when I was a kid, I considered the abacus to be pretty amazing!

Click to expand...

What, your parents wouldn't let you have a slide rule?

I will be emailing the Campbell County Attorney and will post responses.
James Evans

Edit:
VERY pleased with campbell county's response to my email.

Email chain as follows:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kristin,
I wanted to bring to your attention Ordinance section:
Sec. 16-26.2. Prohibiting shooting of pneumatic guns in residentially-zoned areas;
additional regulations applicable to minors.
http://www.co.campbell.va.us/Documents/code/ch16.pdf

I believe it is in violation of following state law:

As of July 1, 2011 SB757 ( http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?111+sum+SB757 ) went into effect. I believe the new state code is as follows: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+ful+SB757

I just wanted to make sure that Campbell county agrees with the above information before I were to target practice with my air gun.

Thank you very much,
James Evans
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Evans –
Because the statute was only recently changed at the state level, and we update our Chapter 16 only once a year, you will see the change made to the ordinance to mirror the state code when the chapter is updated this December. We are aware of the change. You should not be prosecuted for following state law. Thank you for your email.

Kristin Wright

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your quick response and I appreciate your time.
Have a wonderful weekend!

James Evans

2A4all, I went out a bought my own slide rule surreptitiously while only in late grade school! You could get them from magazine ads and they came in unmarked packages! As long as I didn't run with scissors, my parents didn't care.

I can't find it anywhere, so I must have thrown it out. I'd really like to show my daughters how they worked.

The magazine ads are gone.

Dutch Uncle said:

2A4all, I went out a bought my own slide rule surreptitiously while only in late grade school! You could get them from magazine ads and they came in unmarked packages! As long as I didn't run with scissors, my parents didn't care.

I can't find it anywhere, so I must have thrown it out. I'd really like to show my daughters how they worked.

The magazine ads are gone.

Click to expand...

Several web-versions here to play with!

TFred

Vcdl

I am going to ask our Executive members to see if they want to take some of these on. One question, what is "SD" in "SD Parks"?

I am asking them to coordinate with me so I can keep track of what localities are being fixed and which aren't and the current status. The key items are to notify the locality and then to follow up to make sure the problem is fixed. If they refuse to fix the problem, then VCDL will take it from there.

To keep me apprised, send an email to president@vcdl.org

VCDL President said:

I am going to ask our Executive members to see if they want to take some of these on. One question, what is "SD" in "SD Parks"?

I am asking them to coordinate with me so I can keep track of what localities are being fixed and which aren't and the current status. The key items are to notify the locality and then to follow up to make sure the problem is fixed. If they refuse to fix the problem, then VCDL will take it from there.

To keep me apprised, send an email to president@vcdl.org

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this guidance.

I think it would be helpful for VCDL to at least figuratively, stand up a statewide grassroots effort to bring all localities into compliance with 15.2-915.

It would be handy if they put out a short statement to that effect, which would be something that these localities could be directed to, and give them a little indication that these aren't just "bothersome suggestions," but real people who have the law on their side, who are at first, politely asking them to come into compliance, but who have support on the back end, should that suggestion be rebuffed.

The key is to keep a central repository (which this spreadsheet does) allowing a current status and progress for each locality to be maintained, and visible to all.

Finally, should this effort reveal that there is widespread resistance... it gives us tangible evidence that "Florida style teeth" are needed to our own preemption law. A spreadsheet full of localities flipping us (and the General Assembly) off would go a LONG way.

JMHO and thoughts.

TFred

VCDL President said:

I am going to ask our Executive members to see if they want to take some of these on. One question, what is "SD" in "SD Parks"?

I am asking them to coordinate with me so I can keep track of what localities are being fixed and which aren't and the current status. The key items are to notify the locality and then to follow up to make sure the problem is fixed. If they refuse to fix the problem, then VCDL will take it from there.

To keep me apprised, send an email to president@vcdl.org

Click to expand...

Sounds great. I originally wrote "SD Parks Ban" as in Self Defense. Since localities can ban firearms with regards to hunting I wanted to specify that this is for bans of Self Defense carry. I only tagged laws in that category if they banned or put extraneous stipulations on carry in general (such as requiring a CHP even for OC). So i.e. a questionably worded firearms ban within a "hunting and firearms" section may be included because of wording (Roanoke County 15-8(6) ).

Thank God for VA & the VCDL.

Sesrun said:

Sounds great. I originally wrote "SD Parks Ban" as in Self Defense. Since localities can ban firearms with regards to hunting I wanted to specify that this is for bans of Self Defense carry. I only tagged laws in that category if they banned or put extraneous stipulations on carry in general (such as requiring a CHP even for OC). So i.e. a questionably worded firearms ban within a "hunting and firearms" section may be included because of wording (Roanoke County 15-8(6) ).

Thank God for VA & the VCDL.

Click to expand...

We could do as TFred suggests and keep the current status public and up to date on your nicely done spreadsheet. I'm thinking that color codes would be nice. Yellow might mean the locality is currently being contacted by a gun owner, Blue might mean the locality has acknowledged the contact and is working to fix or repeal their ordinance, Red would be a locality that is refusing to fix or repeal their ordinance.

Sesrun, send me an email so I have your email address and we can communicate directly that way for updating the spreadsheet. I will email you the details for the two localities that I already have on my list. I also note that Martinsville has an airgun ban. I'll probably take that one on myself as VCDL is gathering information right now for a possible lawsuit for their municipal building gun ban.

Having that color code spreadsheet will prevent duplication of effort and help guarantee that localities don't "slip through the cracks."

Sending email momentarily.

Spreadsheet is updated with a color coded status column to the left of the locality title.
As - Assigned (YL)
C - Contacted (GN)
A - Acknowledged (BL)
R - Refused (RD)

TFred said:

Wow. That is an amazing amount of work!

TFred

Click to expand...

Agreed! As soon as I got it, I jumped on Leesburg and Loudoun..

Ed

Culpeper is shown on the list under the 'park ban' column of the spreadsheet....

This is the code section... maybe I'm missing something, but other then the title, I don't see where firearms are mentioned/prohibited?

Sec. 10B-34. - Guns, knives, bows and arrows, or fireworks; prohibited.

No person shall possess in a designated County park, facility, or field, a slingshot, bow/arrow, or other high-speed projectiles. Possession or discharge of explosive devices other than fireworks in the park, facility, or field is prohibited except for a Department-sponsored activity in designated areas at designated times. Knives or swords with blades of three (3) or more inches in length are prohibited except for food preparation.

Pursuant to Virginia Code Sections 15.2-1209 and 1210, the Board of Supervisors finds that Spilman Park and Galbreath-Marshall field are designated parks and recreational areas subject to the jurisdiction of the County Parks and Recreations Department, are so heavily populated as to make the shooting of firearms and hunting with firearms to be dangerous to persons using such park and recreational area and the inhabitants in and around such area.

No firearms may be discharged in a County designated park or recreational area subject to the jurisdiction of the County Parks and Recreation Department, or within one-half mile of such park or recreation area, except by a law enforcement officer or military personnel in the lawful performance of their duties, or by any other person to lawfully prevent the loss of life or serious bodily injury. Signs to such effect shall be placed at appropriate points on the boundary of such parks and recreational areas.

Click to expand...