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Thread: MWAG call by neighbor for OC in own front yard

  1. #1
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    MWAG call by neighbor for OC in own front yard

    Many people at my office CC, but as far as I knew, I was the only one who ever OC'd (including daily at work). This morning I got a fun IM from a co-worker that he has given me permission to share:


    (09:59:51 AM) Co-worker: I think you'd be proud... I got my first MWAG call last night =D
    (10:00:06 AM) Leeland: wow. Do tell!
    (10:03:36 AM) Co-worker: So I've started opening carrying more and more over the last month. I went to the store after work last night while OCing and everything went fine. Came home and began mowing the front lawn. Apparently my neighbor across the street had a problem with it... he called the Taylorsville pd. Cops came out and talked to me for about 10 minutes.
    (10:04:28 AM) Co-worker: The cops asked me the silliest questions, they said, "Sir, do you know you are wearing a gun?" to which I answered yes. They asked why I had a gun and I told them I was a proponent of open-carry. Seemed happy with this they left to talk to the neighbor
    (10:04:43 AM) Co-worker: The neighbor was NOT happy that they weren't arresting me...
    (10:08:36 AM) Leeland: Do you have an account on the opencarry forums for utah?
    (10:08:56 AM) Co-worker: I have one over at UCC
    (10:09:03 AM) Leeland: That story is priceless and simply must be shared. If you don't have an account, I want your permission to post it.
    (10:09:21 AM) Co-worker: You can post it =D.
    (10:10:21 AM) Leeland: Can you remember any more about your conversation with the cops?
    (10:09:52 AM) Co-worker: As far as the cops went, they handled everything well and didn't make up BS laws like I've heard happening to other people.
    (10:13:42 AM) Co-worker: Conversation with the cops basically went:
    C: Do you know you have a gun?
    Me: Yes
    C: Why are you carrying a gun while mowing the lawn?
    Me: Because I am a proponent of open-carry.
    C: Well I don't carry my gun when I mow the lawn, it makes people uncomfortable.
    Me: Which is why I open-carry, if more people were to open carry it wouldn't make people uncomfortable.
    C: Can I get your name?
    Me: <name>
    C: Were you threatening your neighbor?
    Me: No.
    C: Did you feel threatened by your neighbor and that's why you put on a
    gun?
    Me: No.
    C: Okay, we're going to talk to <neighbor>.


    I half jokingly told him to spend a few minutes patrolling the perimeter of his yard each night with an AR, and offered to loan him some bigger handguns to carry...

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Sounds like the police weren't horrible this time. They didn't give him a hard time or ask him to cover up. Sounds like the neighbor needs to grow up and stop wasting everyone's time.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  3. #3
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    That is why 911 operators should question the caller as to what the person with the firearm is doing with it, and explain there is nothing illegal with OC in one's own yard.

    I wonder what this neighbor would do if he watched you cleaning your guns out on your front porch? I do that all the time, however, there is no-one within eyesight, I live too far back in the boonies.
    Last edited by hermannr; 08-18-2011 at 03:20 PM.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    I always OC when cutting my grass.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  5. #5
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeland
    Many people at my office CC, but as far as I knew, I was the only one who ever OC'd (including daily at work).
    Oh, man... I want to work someplace like that!

    The cops asked me the silliest questions, they said, "Sir, do you know you are wearing a gun?"
    I would have been tempted to look around at my waist, see the gun, & act as if it's a large poisonous spider... scream & jump & so on.
    Probably would not go over well w/ the cops, but they just might have a sense of humor.

    Or look around, pat myself down, & say something like "dang! where'd the other 3 go?"

    C: Why are you carrying a gun while mowing the lawn?
    Me: Because I am a proponent of open-carry.
    a) Because I want to.
    b) Are you saying you think I'm doing something illegal?

    C: Can I get your name?
    a) No.
    b) Sure, I'll be happy to be a complaining witness in your case against whoever called in this false report! That person should have to pay for the wasted time & resources when you're sent on nonsense calls like this.
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    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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  6. #6
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    Just out of curiosity.. do you know if your co-worker had previous issues with this neighbor before? Or maybe he just moved into that neighborhood?

    Sounds like he handled it very well though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    Just out of curiosity.. do you know if your co-worker had previous issues with this neighbor before? Or maybe he just moved into that neighborhood?.
    I don't know if he has had any issues with that neighbor, but he is new to the neighborhood. I will encourage him to create an account so he can reply to this sort of question directly.

  8. #8
    Regular Member ThatOneChick's Avatar
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    I'm glad the LEOs were cool about the thing and, like mentioned, didn't make up a bunch of junk to try and entrap anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I would have been tempted to look around at my waist, see the gun, & act as if it's a large poisonous spider... scream & jump & so on.
    Probably would not go over well w/ the cops, but they just might have a sense of humor.

    Or look around, pat myself down, & say something like "dang! where'd the other 3 go?"
    I was thinking the same thing lol. What kind of question is that? Seriously. That's like "Sir, do you know you have a head?" "No, really? *Pats about*"

  9. #9
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    C: Were you threatening your neighbor?
    Me: No.
    C: Did you feel threatened by your neighbor and that's why you put on a
    gun?
    Me: No.

    kinda smacks of baiting to me by the cop. Teach the rule: DONT TALK TO THE COPS!

  10. #10
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    This is a good encounter, because being 'on the record' it will be very difficult for your neighbor to make up something about you threatening him (to get more 'action' out of the PD).

    One thing to realize is that a 'smart' (as in a-hole) neighbor can easily 'make up a story' and get you hauled downtown because many LEOs are reactionary about HGs even on private property. It's important to carry a recorder for instances like this so you can defend yourself, so I URGE you to get one and have it on when you OC.

    True the chances that someone might take it this far may be slim, but the consequences can be devastating. Essentially cops can run you in an let you pay to get out of it, even if they know it's bogus.

    In this case the 911 operator should have questioned the caller 'is he on his own property? Is he threatening you? If not, sorry sir, OC is legal in this state - if you call in something like this again we may have to charge you with abuse of 911 services'. In fact the operator can't really even say 'is he on his own property because that irrelevant. (However 911 operators are know to ask a preponderance of irrelevant questions when they're called, lol).

    Glad it turned out OK. I wish someone would press charges for false reports of a crime in these cases and see if it sticks.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Cop should have asked "how's it going?" When the CW said fine, that should have been it. Then he should have informed the a-hole neighbor to stop wasting his time. The cop had no legal right to go on the CW's property or ask him his name. UT is not MD. If I was mowing my lawn and interrupted by the cop, I would have been angry. But then, I don't OC when mowing the lawn and my neighbors are as pro-gun as I am. If I was OCing, one would probably come over to see if I bought a new pistol. The a-hole neighbor should move to one of the gulag states.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  12. #12
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    It has been my experience that for the most part (except for some in Provo), Utah cops are respectful of 2A rights. All of my encounters have been positive. I have been asked to produce my permit once and that was uneventful.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    That is why 911 operators should question the caller as to what the person with the firearm is doing with it, and explain there is nothing illegal with OC in one's own yard.

    I wonder what this neighbor would do if he watched you cleaning your guns out on your front porch? I do that all the time, however, there is no-one within eyesight, I live too far back in the boonies.
    There are those who do. Unfortunately they are civilians and it isn't their job to determine if a call is valid or not. If someone calls in, it has to be written up and it's up to the officers to determine the validity of the call.

  14. #14
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    I don't have any real problem with how the ploice handled this call but the neighbor is a different story. On another board a slightly different" MWAG" call was reported and I would like some opinions on it. Instead of cutting grass in broad daylight suppose you drive by a house at 11:30 at night and see two men walking across the front yard of a home with a long gun in hand. You can't make out what kind of gun it is but looks to be some kind of tactical weapon as it has a light mounted on it. There are a few lights on in the house and it is in a semi-rural area of NC and set back off the road about 200'. Do you just ignore them or do you consider them to be suspicous? You do live close by but do not know the people who live in the house.

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    Regular Member ThatOneChick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    Instead of cutting grass in broad daylight suppose you drive by a house at 11:30 at night and see two men walking across the front yard of a home with a long gun in hand. You can't make out what kind of gun it is but looks to be some kind of tactical weapon as it has a light mounted on it. There are a few lights on in the house and it is in a semi-rural area of NC and set back off the road about 200'. Do you just ignore them or do you consider them to be suspicous? You do live close by but do not know the people who live in the house.
    Excellent scenario. While I'm a huge advocate of "So what if it's 2:30am? If someone wants to go for a walk (aside from minors as Utah has curfew laws), then more power to them." Considering I'm a huge night owl and do, on occasion, go for a late night walk myself, I still get suspicious if I see someone else walking late so, there is a double standard on my part.

    I think, in theory, if this situation happened to me: Let's assume they're walking away from the house (to get into a vehicle or some sorts) then, I'd take down as much info as I could then, wait until they leave and knock on the house of the yard they were leaving from just to make sure everyone is okay. If they were walking into the house, again I would take as much info as possible down and watch. Sometimes, not always, you can kind of tell if someone's where they should be or not.

    If things are not right, obviously call the police and assess the situation to determine if I could make the situation better or wait for the authorities.

  16. #16
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    I don't think I've mowed my lawn WITHOUT OC'ing since I joined this forum.... Never had a call on me THAT I'M aware of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOneChick View Post
    Excellent scenario. While I'm a huge advocate of "So what if it's 2:30am? If someone wants to go for a walk (aside from minors as Utah has curfew laws), then more power to them." Considering I'm a huge night owl and do, on occasion, go for a late night walk myself, I still get suspicious if I see someone else walking late so, there is a double standard on my part.

    I think, in theory, if this situation happened to me: Let's assume they're walking away from the house (to get into a vehicle or some sorts) then, I'd take down as much info as I could then, wait until they leave and knock on the house of the yard they were leaving from just to make sure everyone is okay. If they were walking into the house, again I would take as much info as possible down and watch. Sometimes, not always, you can kind of tell if someone's where they should be or not.

    If things are not right, obviously call the police and assess the situation to determine if I could make the situation better or wait for the authorities.
    I'm quite the night owl and will frequently walk around about that time and occasionally OC as well. I've only been hassled a couple times but it didn't involve more than a spot check. I don't OC often but when I do it's b/c not all my clothes allow for concealment.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    I don't think I've mowed my lawn WITHOUT OC'ing since I joined this forum.... Never had a call on me THAT I'M aware of.
    I'll have to start doing this.

  18. #18
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Kudos to your friend, Leeland. Do you know his screen name on UCC?

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Oh, man... I want to work someplace like that!
    My boss doesn't care if I OC at work. I have done it twice in the last year, but both times it got in the way of what I was doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    I don't think I've mowed my lawn WITHOUT OC'ing since I joined this forum.... Never had a call on me THAT I'M aware of.
    I've lived in my current home for 4.5 years now, and hove only mowed my lawn once to my knowledge. (Thanks honey, for mowing!)
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jensen View Post
    My boss doesn't care if I OC at work. I have done it twice in the last year, but both times it got in the way of what I was doing.

    I've lived in my current home for 4.5 years now, and hove only mowed my lawn once to my knowledge. (Thanks honey, for mowing!)
    I am the boss at work (co-owner of business). My business partner is very pro-gun, but also occasionally nervous that my OC will offend someone resulting in loss of business. Out of respect to him, I will on occasion throw on a cover shirt when meeting with potential clients for the first time.

    I also have not mowed the lawn in many years (my wife has always done that, usually while I am cooking dinner). Ideal for me as I hate yard work due to allergies, but love cooking.

  20. #20
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeland View Post
    I am the boss at work (co-owner of business). My business partner is very pro-gun, but also occasionally nervous that my OC will offend someone resulting in loss of business. Out of respect to him, I will on occasion throw on a cover shirt when meeting with potential clients for the first time.

    I also have not mowed the lawn in many years (my wife has always done that, usually while I am cooking dinner). Ideal for me as I hate yard work due to allergies, but love cooking.
    Kind of sounds like SeaMed, except it was dress "code" (haha) CEO, Please dress business casual or better, we have new potential clients, at least until to get to know us (translate, we have contract in hand)

  21. #21
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    I don't have any real problem with how the ploice handled this call but the neighbor is a different story. On another board a slightly different" MWAG" call was reported and I would like some opinions on it. Instead of cutting grass in broad daylight suppose you drive by a house at 11:30 at night and see two men walking across the front yard of a home with a long gun in hand. You can't make out what kind of gun it is but looks to be some kind of tactical weapon as it has a light mounted on it. There are a few lights on in the house and it is in a semi-rural area of NC and set back off the road about 200'. Do you just ignore them or do you consider them to be suspicous? You do live close by but do not know the people who live in the house.
    Just a question: Isn't night hunting legal in NC? and a Comment: that is THE reason to make an effort to know your neighbors. I do not live in NC, but I am definately rural...If there was someone up here I didn't know, I would not call the cops, I would stop them myself and find out what they were up to. If there was a problem and they would not leave, then I would call.

    If a Sheriff's Deputy were to rush as fast has he could (and didn't hit a deer, or otherwise halt his forward progress) it would take a minimum of 30 minutes for him to get up here anyway. Why risk a deputy's life when you can check it out yourself? Not that they would not do their best to get up here as quickly as possible if called. A MWAG call here would not be responded to unless there was something illegal going on. It would stop at the 911 operator.

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