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Thread: Silver Bullets B.S.

  1. #1
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Silver Bullets B.S.

    I was looking on Silver Bullet Firearms website and found this:

    Limitations -Michigan law does not permit us to allow anyone younger than 21 to shoot a handgun without direct parental supervision, younger than 18 for long guns. Anyone 10 years of age or older is allowed to shoot either a hand gun or long gun as long as they have a parent present. If you are 18 years or older you may shoot a long gun only, without supervision, if you are experienced. Handguns after age 21.
    I'm calling B.S. on this. There is no law that I have found that prohibits someone 18-20 from shooting a handgun without direct parental supervision. Especially looking at the fact those of us 18-20 can purchase (private seller) and carry handguns.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I was looking on Silver Bullet Firearms website and found this:



    I'm calling B.S. on this. There is no law that I have found that prohibits someone 18-20 from shooting a handgun without direct parental supervision. Especially looking at the fact those of us 18-20 can purchase (private seller) and carry handguns.
    They may be thinking of the law for those under 18. Or it's an intentional misrepresentation of the law. It would be better if they just claimed it was their policy. Very misleading.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  3. #3
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Because handguns are more dangerous the rifles (sarcasm), you can easily shoot yourself in the head with them! (as opposed to just someone else).
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    They may be thinking of the law for those under 18. Or it's an intentional misrepresentation of the law. It would be better if they just claimed it was their policy. Very misleading.
    Most likely they're referring to MCL 28.422, Subsection (11):

    (11) This section does not apply to a person who is younger than the age required under subsection (3)(b) and who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply:
    (a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing that pistol.
    (b) The person is at a recognized target range.
    (c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol.
    (d) The person's parent or guardian is physically present and supervising the person.
    (e) The owner of the pistol is physically present.

    (3)(b):

    (b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed under 18 USC 923, is 21 years of age or older.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Most likely they're referring to MCL 28.422, Subsection (11):

    (11) This section does not apply to a person who is younger than the age required under subsection (3)(b) and who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply:
    (a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing that pistol.
    (b) The person is at a recognized target range.
    (c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol.
    (d) The person's parent or guardian is physically present and supervising the person.
    (e) The owner of the pistol is physically present.

    (3)(b):

    (b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed under 18 USC 923, is 21 years of age or older.
    I realize they can't sell me a pistol but they can let me shoot my own. Unless Silver Bullet changes their policy they have lost my business.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    That rule may be for RENTING of guns. Which I would tend to agree. Then over time the "rule" came to restrict even privately owned handguns by those under 21.

    They need to re-visit their rules and add a few lines.

  7. #7
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I realize they can't sell me a pistol but they can let me shoot my own. Unless Silver Bullet changes their policy they have lost my business.
    have they gotten back in response to your letter? i would like to know what their response was.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I just sent an email now so we'll see how they reply.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  9. #9
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Well they responded pretty quickly.

    II was told that the main reason for it is to keep the insurance affordable they had to make that rule. Which is fine I understand them losing my business isn't near as much as it would be to pay the insurance premiums. He also said he will try to change the verbiage on their website and thanked me for pointing it out.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  10. #10
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Well they responded pretty quickly.

    II was told that the main reason for it is to keep the insurance affordable they had to make that rule. Which is fine I understand them losing my business isn't near as much as it would be to pay the insurance premiums. He also said he will try to change the verbiage on their website and thanked me for pointing it out.
    At least it wasn't personal. I don't see where the policy is making anyone safer though. Leave it to a bunch of bean counters to inflict unnecessary BS on everyone for no apparent reason.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  11. #11
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Went onto Silver Bullets website today to see if they changed it and they did. It now reads:
    Limitations - Silver Bullet Firearms and Training Center's policy does not allow anyone younger than 21 to shoot a handgun without direct parental supervision, younger than 18 for long guns. Anyone 10 years of age or older is allowed to shoot either a hand gun or long gun as long as they have a parent present. If you are 18 years or older you may shoot a long gun only, without supervision, if you are experienced and handguns after age 21, if you are experienced. This is due to our insurance regulations and thank you for your cooperation in creating a safe environment for shooters.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I was looking on Silver Bullet Firearms website and found this:



    I'm calling B.S. on this. There is no law that I have found that prohibits someone 18-20 from shooting a handgun without direct parental supervision. Especially looking at the fact those of us 18-20 can purchase (private seller) and carry handguns.
    In 77',I bought my first S&W model 29(44 magnum).I was 20,bought it from a private seller(leutenant sheriff deputy).No change in the law since. Some folks open their mouths with no knowledge.Some are just stupidly childish(think they know everything or don't care if they're wrong) and some just lie(don't care who they hurt)! BS is RIGHT! CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  13. #13
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    If the statement is range policy thats fine,firearm law IS different!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  14. #14
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    If the statement is range policy thats fine,firearm law IS different!
    Exactly my opinion and what I told them in the email which is why they changed it. They said its because of their insurance but Freedom Firearms has no problem as long as you are 18 so I go there plus it is closer and I love the staff there. Have never been to Silver Bullets but looking at the fact they teach CPL classes I was disappointed to see them post on their website saying something was state law when it in fact wasn't. I will give them credit for making the correct change though.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  15. #15
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Exactly my opinion and what I told them in the email which is why they changed it. They said its because of their insurance but Freedom Firearms has no problem as long as you are 18 so I go there plus it is closer and I love the staff there. Have never been to Silver Bullets but looking at the fact they teach CPL classes I was disappointed to see them post on their website saying something was state law when it in fact wasn't. I will give them credit for making the correct change though.
    Everyone makes mistakes and I won't give them any grief about posting it incorrectly. They changed it as soon as it was pointed out to them. Now, if I saw a pattern of this sort of thing, then I may have something else to say about it. Carry on!
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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