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Thread: Constitutional Carry

  1. #1
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    Constitutional Carry

    The gun laws in this country are a mess. It seems like you need to carry a law library with you if you travel from one municipality to another. State to state as well. After looking at all the rules and regulations I have come to the conclusion that all states should go the way of Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming, and Vermont. In my opinion Constitutional Carry should be the ultimate goal. Do you agree? Why should I need any permit to exercise my Constitutional rights? IMO, Permits always pave the way for more restrictions. Why give the anti 2A groups/individuals a crack in the door to put their foot in? This is the reason we have problems with the guns now. Agree? I am curious if OC/CCW groups advocates and share the same belief. I don't believe we should settle for anything less than Constitutional Carry. Just my observation and opinion.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Perhaps this post belong on a brady campaign forum? You just told us everything we discuss day in and day out lol. welcome to OCDO



    EDIT: It's like going on a glock forum and talking about why glocks are great guns and asking the members if they'd be interested in trying one out lol.

    Anywho, what state are you in Pete's Sake?
    Last edited by Schlitz; 08-19-2011 at 06:33 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    I see a lot of talk about about OC and CCW laws and regs but little discussion on Constitutional Carry agendas for each state. Being a newbie I could be wrong. If so I do apologize. I'll get the hang of this issue sooner or later. I'm from the show me state, Missouri. Maybe that explains it! Thanks for the welcome Schlitz.


    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    Perhaps this post belong on a brady campaign forum? You just told us everything we discuss day in and day out lol. welcome to OCDO



    EDIT: It's like going on a glock forum and talking about why glocks are great guns and asking the members if they'd be interested in trying one out lol.

    Anywho, what state are you in Pete's Sake?

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Yea man, stick around, you're learn a lot of information about law on the forums. Information that will apply to more than just firearms throughout your life!
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    We came close in WI but I believe we were sold out by a rather large (national, but I will not name who as to not "bash" them, but I think you can guess who) "gun rights" group. We will be advancing carry even further in WI in the near future.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    constitutional carry is a great idea... i guess... but my CPL allows me to carry in 37 states, maybe 38 on nov 1st.

    if my state went to constitutional carry... unless they also continued to issue a CPL... i could only carry concealed in my state and other constitutional carry states (4 right now).

    why is this good for me? convince me, i am open minded.

    i want to note that i will gladly pay for classes and a CPL. if the argument is that we should not have to pay for a right... i have heard it, i get your angle...

    but saving a couple hundred dollars to lose the right to carry in 32 states (without paying the same money to get an out of state utah CPL or other such BS) seems like bad math.

    my point is... i want to be able to carry open and concealed in all 50 states. i would prefer not to go backwards to go forward.
    Last edited by ElectricianLU58; 08-28-2011 at 02:18 AM.

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    AK and AZ both have consitutional carry and permits both of best.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    constitutional carry is a great idea... i guess... but my CPL allows me to carry in 37 states, maybe 38 on nov 1st.

    if my state went to constitutional carry... unless they also continued to issue a CPL... i could only carry concealed in my state and other constitutional carry states (4 right now).

    why is this good for me? convince me, i am open minded.

    i want to note that i will gladly pay for classes and a CPL. if the argument is that we should not have to pay for a right... i have heard it, i get your angle...

    but saving a couple hundred dollars to lose the right to carry in 32 states (without paying the same money to get an out of state utah CPL or other such BS) seems like bad math.

    my point is... i want to be able to carry open and concealed in all 50 states. i would prefer not to go backwards to go forward.
    You aren't losing a right to carry, your right to carry is infringed upon in 46 states. Not to mention, a carry permit is a backdoor gun registration list.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    ...Not to mention, a carry permit is a backdoor gun registration list.
    Only if the registration process collects information on firearms. Those who issued my license have no idea how many guns or what guns I own. All they can do is assume that I own at least one or that I have nothing better to do with twenty dollars every year other than to make them do a little extra work.
    Last edited by eye95; 08-28-2011 at 08:59 AM.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Only if the registration process collects information on firearms. Those who issued my license have no idea how many guns or what guns I own. All they can do is assume that I own at least one or that I have nothing better to do with twenty dollars every year other than to make them do a little extra work.
    And when you fill out your forms when you purchase a firearm?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  11. #11
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    Or are an NRA member, or have a hunting license, or posted on this forum

    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    And when you fill out your forms when you purchase a firearm?
    The CCW license or permit typically does not have information about individual firearms. It gives the government no more information, realy than if you buy a hunting license, belong to the NRA, or post on this forum. All of those actions have put you on a list of people who almost certainly have firearms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    And when you fill out your forms when you purchase a firearm?
    I was addressing a very specific assertion in your post.

    Now that you have raised a completely different issue: If the FBI follows the law, they destroy their record of the transaction after a period of time specified in the law.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    constitutional carry is a great idea... i guess... but my CPL allows me to carry in 37 states, maybe 38 on nov 1st.

    if my state went to constitutional carry... unless they also continued to issue a CPL... i could only carry concealed in my state and other constitutional carry states (4 right now).

    why is this good for me? convince me, i am open minded.

    i want to note that i will gladly pay for classes and a CPL. if the argument is that we should not have to pay for a right... i have heard it, i get your angle...

    but saving a couple hundred dollars to lose the right to carry in 32 states (without paying the same money to get an out of state utah CPL or other such BS) seems like bad math.

    my point is... i want to be able to carry open and concealed in all 50 states. i would prefer not to go backwards to go forward.
    If a state has constitutional carry and does not have a optional permit, then all you have to do is get a out of state permit from another state.

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    Unfortunately, there are several states that only accept a resident CCW permit

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    If a state has constitutional carry and does not have a optional permit, then all you have to do is get a out of state permit from another state.
    Michigan, New Hampshire, and South Carolina only recognise resident state permits, so you have to get a permit from the state you reside in to have your permit recognised in those states.

    However, New Hampsire came as close to passing Constitutional carry this year as it is possible, without passing it.

    Everything is in flux, we are winning, and the trend is with us, so it is entirely possible that these restrictions will be changed in the next few years.

  15. #15
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    Michigan, New Hampshire, and South Carolina only recognise resident state permits, so you have to get a permit from the state you reside in to have your permit recognised in those states.

    However, New Hampsire came as close to passing Constitutional carry this year as it is possible, without passing it.

    Everything is in flux, we are winning, and the trend is with us, so it is entirely possible that these restrictions will be changed in the next few years.
    Then a person either avoids those states or they go unarmed. Not everything is perfect, as much as it should be. Hopefully there will be a change in administration come 2013 and maybe a law will be passed requiring all permits to be recognized in all states, then maybe not. I don't travel much anymore, and I don't ever conceal, so it is not a concern for me on a personal level. Though I do desire that the right to bear arms without restrictions is returned to all citizens in all states. To me it is more about freedom and those protections from tyranny that the 2nd amendment is there for, than my own SD. Many people forget that the original amendments were about protection from our own government, not from each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by For Pete's Sake! View Post
    The gun laws in this country are a mess.
    The founding law is very clear: "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." It's all the dimwits who felt they needed to add their two cents in afterwards that have created the hodge podge.

    I have come to the conclusion that all states should go the way of Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming, and Vermont. In my opinion Constitutional Carry should be the ultimate goal. Do you agree?
    Absolutely.

    I am curious if OC/CCW groups advocates and share the same belief.
    I perceive most OCers are more for Constitutional Carry, while most CCers would prefer a stratified system, where one doesn't get to carry until they've been found "worthy," like some sort of card-carrying club member. Snobbish, if you ask me.

    I don't believe we should settle for anything less than Constitutional Carry.
    Agreed. No snobbishness. Everyone can carry.

    Wait, did you mean everyone? As in criminals and the mentally insane can carry, too? I'd have to close the barn door on these two groups.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  17. #17
    Regular Member thedrewcifur's Avatar
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    what we need is constitutional carry nationwide. we do have that already (the 2nd amendment). we just need the "lawmakers" to realize that.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrewcifur View Post
    what we need is constitutional carry nationwide. we do have that already (the 2nd amendment). we just need the "lawmakers" to realize that.
    Agreed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    Michigan, New Hampshire, and South Carolina only recognise resident state permits, so you have to get a permit from the state you reside in to have your permit recognised in those states.

    However, New Hampsire came as close to passing Constitutional carry this year as it is possible, without passing it.

    Everything is in flux, we are winning, and the trend is with us, so it is entirely possible that these restrictions will be changed in the next few years.
    While MI will recognize all state permits (http://www.michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7...0957--,00.html), New Hampshire only has reciprocity with 22 states (http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/n...ing/plupr.html) and South Carolina only 17 (http://www.sled.sc.gov/Reciprocity1.aspx?MenuID=CWP).

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