Yellow Cat Training In Wisconsin

jpm84092 · Aug 19, 2011

This is the first of two posts. The second will depend on the response to this one.

Please consider this. The WI Permit is unlikely to be honored in MN due to the training discrepancies. This is true in many other states as well. The UT Concealed Firearm Permit will do two things. 1) A UT Permit is proof of training in WI - and - 2) Give the holder reciprocity in 3/5 of the USA. And, a UT permit application mailed by September 15 will result in the UT permit arriving before November 1, 2011.

The Yellow Cat With The M-4 (Jim) will be returning to Wisconsin to visit family and friends and conduct firearms training in SE Wisconsin. The classroom training will take place at the East Troy Airport. Since all NRA courses require the use of a range, whether or not I teach NRA Courses depends on whether or not my allies in WI find me a range to use. Students will split the costs of the range. But, we will assume that we can get a range even if we have to use an indoor range and every student pay for one lane.

All students who wish to take the Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Course must first download the course materials. See link

Also, students must obtain a passport photo ($9 at Walgreens) and be fingerprinted - most Law Enforcement Offices, but you may have trouble getting fingerprint cards, or, Borkhuis Investigative Services (the tenant in my property in WI).

Link: http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/MTC20115162011.pdf

Please note that I have raised my training prices slightly, but am still very competitive. (Some businesses "up north" are getting $125 for the UT CFP Course.)

My availability is:

Friday, September 2, 2011 for Utah CFP -or- NRA First Steps Pistol - or NRA Basic Pistol, but not all three on the same day.

Saturday, September 3, 2011 - see above

Sunday, September 4, 2011 - see above

Monday, September 5, 2011 - see above.

NRA Personal Protection In The Home can be taught if I can get a minimum of 5 students. Keep in mind that you must hold NRA Basic Pistol or above. This is a tactical course and I will be teaching the "double-tap" method of responding to a deadly threat.

Course Fees For The Utah Concealed Firearm Permit are: (Please note that the "spouse" fee also applies to children over the age of 21).

Military Veteran with the Military Order of the Purple Heart - Course Fee = $10 (Spouse = $15)
Military Veteran with the CIB (or equiv) Course Fee = $15 (Spouse = $20)
Military Veteran - non combat - Course fee = $20 (Spouse = $25)
Current Law Enforcement Officer - Course Fee = $20 (Spouse = $25)
Wisconsin Carry Paid Member AND NRA Member = $20 (Spouse = $25)
Wisconsin Carry Paid Member = $25 (Spouse = $30 - if not also a member of WI Carry)
Person who is a member of a 2A group not NRA or WI Carry - Course fee = $35 (non member Spouse = $40)
Citizen who is not a member of a 2A group and has not joined WI Carrry before the class - Course Fee = $40.

NRA Courses (Basic Pistol and First Steps - Pistol) - All Students must pay the $30 MSRP for the Textbook, tests, and related training materials.

Vet with Purple Heart = MSRP + $5
Vet with CIB = MSRP +$10
Vet - non combat = MSRP + $15
LEO, or - WI CARRY + NRA = MSRP + $15
WI CARRY = MSRP + $20
Person who is a member of a 2A group that is not NRA or WI CARRY = MSRP +$25
Citizen who is not a member of any 2A Group = MSRP + $40
Spouses or adult children over 21 add $5 to the above groupings.

NRA Personal Protection In The Home (Must Have NRA Basic Pistol or more)

All Students Course Fee is $135 including textbooks. *(Students pay for range time).

If anyone wants NRA Rifle - please PM me. I will focus my training on the use of the M-16, AR-15, M-4 Platform.

For those who do not read my signature, my Qualifications are:

NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Rifle
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Personal Protection
State Of Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification Certified Concealed Firearms Permit Instructor

For purists who will only take instruction from a WI Resident - While I may now be a UT resident, I was a resident of WI for over 45 years and still have a house in WI and pay taxes in WI. MKEGAL, a resident of Milwaukee, will be my assistant instructor on any NRA First Steps Pistol and NRA Basic Pistol course. She will be an "apprentice instructor" on any rifle or personal protection course I teach.

Which courses I teach and on what dates will be determined on whether I get a range - and - how many students wish to sign up for which courses. The replies to this post and any PMs I receive in the next 24 - 48 hours will determine what courses I teach. I will be posting the teaching schedule on the NRA Website - and - on this forum. Please consider your neighbors. If I get a strong response and nobody shows for a course, then it is unlikely that I would return to WI to teach again.

Carry On my Friends - Proudly Carry On.

santana · Aug 19, 2011

jpm84092 said:
This is the first of two posts. The second will depend on the response to this one.

Please consider this. The WI Permit is unlikely to be honored in MN due to the training discrepancies. This is true in many other states as well. The UT Concealed Firearm Permit will do two things. 1) A UT Permit is proof of training in WI - and - 2) Give the holder reciprocity in 3/5 of the USA. And, a UT permit application mailed by September 15 will result in the UT permit arriving before November 1, 2011.

The Yellow Cat With The M-4 (Jim) will be returning to Wisconsin to visit family and friends and conduct firearms training in SE Wisconsin. The classroom training will take place at the East Troy Airport. Since all NRA courses require the use of a range, whether or not I teach NRA Courses depends on whether or not my allies in WI find me a range to use. Students will split the costs of the range. But, we will assume that we can get a range even if we have to use an indoor range and every student pay for one lane.

All students who wish to take the Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Course must first download the course materials. See link

Also, students must obtain a passport photo ($9 at Walgreens) and be fingerprinted - most Law Enforcement Offices, but you may have trouble getting fingerprint cards, or, Borkhuis Investigative Services (the tenant in my property in WI).

Link: http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/MTC20115162011.pdf

Please note that I have raised my training prices slightly, but am still very competitive. (Some businesses "up north" are getting $125 for the UT CFP Course.)

My availability is:

Friday, September 2, 2011 for Utah CFP -or- NRA First Steps Pistol - or NRA Basic Pistol, but not all three on the same day.

Saturday, September 3, 2011 - see above

Sunday, September 4, 2011 - see above

Monday, September 5, 2011 - see above.

NRA Personal Protection In The Home can be taught if I can get a minimum of 5 students. Keep in mind that you must hold NRA Basic Pistol or above. This is a tactical course and I will be teaching the "double-tap" method of responding to a deadly threat.

Course Fees For The Utah Concealed Firearm Permit are: (Please note that the "spouse" fee also applies to children over the age of 21).

Military Veteran with the Military Order of the Purple Heart - Course Fee = $10 (Spouse = $15)
Military Veteran with the CIB (or equiv) Course Fee = $15 (Spouse = $20)
Military Veteran - non combat - Course fee = $20 (Spouse = $25)
Current Law Enforcement Officer - Course Fee = $20 (Spouse = $25)
Wisconsin Carry Paid Member AND NRA Member = $20 (Spouse = $25)
Wisconsin Carry Paid Member = $25 (Spouse = $30 - if not also a member of WI Carry)
Person who is a member of a 2A group not NRA or WI Carry - Course fee = $35 (non member Spouse = $40)
Citizen who is not a member of a 2A group and has not joined WI Carrry before the class - Course Fee = $40.

NRA Courses (Basic Pistol and First Steps - Pistol) - All Students must pay the $30 MSRP for the Textbook, tests, and related training materials.

Vet with Purple Heart = MSRP + $5
Vet with CIB = MSRP +$10
Vet - non combat = MSRP + $15
LEO, or - WI CARRY + NRA = MSRP + $15
WI CARRY = MSRP + $20
Person who is a member of a 2A group that is not NRA or WI CARRY = MSRP +$25
Citizen who is not a member of any 2A Group = MSRP + $40
Spouses or adult children over 21 add $5 to the above groupings.

NRA Personal Protection In The Home (Must Have NRA Basic Pistol or more)

All Students Course Fee is $135 including textbooks. *(Students pay for range time).

If anyone wants NRA Rifle - please PM me. I will focus my training on the use of the M-16, AR-15, M-4 Platform.

For those who do not read my signature, my Qualifications are:

NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Rifle
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Personal Protection
State Of Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification Certified Concealed Firearms Permit Instructor

For purists who will only take instruction from a WI Resident - While I may now be a UT resident, I was a resident of WI for over 45 years and still have a house in WI and pay taxes in WI. MKEGAL, a resident of Milwaukee, will be my assistant instructor on any NRA First Steps Pistol and NRA Basic Pistol course. She will be an "apprentice instructor" on any rifle or personal protection course I teach.

Which courses I teach and on what dates will be determined on whether I get a range - and - how many students wish to sign up for which courses. The replies to this post and any PMs I receive in the next 24 - 48 hours will determine what courses I teach. I will be posting the teaching schedule on the NRA Website - and - on this forum. Please consider your neighbors. If I get a strong response and nobody shows for a course, then it is unlikely that I would return to WI to teach again.

Carry On my Friends - Proudly Carry On.

And what makes you think the Wisconsin DOJ will recognize you as an approved instructor and courses, since they have yet to establish those parameters. Owning a house here and used to live here should not be a factor for anything.

bmwguy11 · Aug 19, 2011

santana said:
And what makes you think the Wisconsin DOJ will recognize you as an approved instructor and courses, since they have yet to establish those parameters. Owning a house here and used to live here should not be a factor for anything.

Because his primary reason for posting he offers the UT permit class, in which you can get your UT carry permit, which then can be used as proof of training for the WI permit.

Yellowcat I wish we had known about your classes earlier. But we've already put down a non-refundable $110 (EACH!) for the UT class elsewhere.

Have Gun - Will Carry · Aug 19, 2011

Back off, newbie!

santana said:
And what makes you think the Wisconsin DOJ will recognize you as an approved instructor and courses, since they have yet to establish those parameters? Owning a house here and used to live here should not be a factor for anything.

Considering how new you are here, you may want to:

A. Read what has been posted before commenting on it, AND
B. Adjust your attitude a bit before posting such rude comments to a long-time member of this forum, AND
C. Learn proper punctuation before slamming anyone on any internet forum. Assuming your first sentence was a question, it's customary to indicate that with what's known as a "question mark" - like this " ? "

Your reply was totally uncalled for, and methinks you will not last long here with an attitude such as you seem to have. Just my opinion, of course...

Lurchiron · Aug 19, 2011

santana said:
Owning a house here and used to live here should not be a factor for anything.

That's exactly what I tell all the illegal aliens I come across...ironic,eh???[Note the Q-mark(s)] :uhoh:

jpm84092 · Aug 19, 2011

santana said:
And what makes you think the Wisconsin DOJ will recognize you as an approved instructor and courses, since they have yet to establish those parameters. Owning a house here and used to live here should not be a factor for anything.

Nope - I think WI will recognize me because of my NRA Instructor Credentials in accordance with the AB 35 Law as signed by the Governor. The law is quite clear that any NRA Course will qualify for WI Carry Permit - and ANY state's Concealed Firearm Permit will likewise qualify. Please re-read the FAQ on the WI DOJ website.

You are of course correct, owning a house here does not mean Jack to the DOJ, but it might mean something to purists who want instructors to be from WI. But, despite your post, a UT permit, in accordance with the "black letter law" of WI AB 35, does qualify as training for the WI permit.

Now, if I am going to take a bunch of flack for offering dirt cheap courses, my feelings will not be hurt, but I can always confine myself to visiting family and friends in WI and allow WI residents to pay more for training from other instructors. If WI Carry members want to attack me, I can "back off" and disappear from view in WI.

Please tell me why you are flaming a firearms instructor who will offer the UT CFP course for as little as $10 for a Military Veteran with the Purple Heart? With the Utah CFP course costing $125 in northern WI and as cheap as $60 at Serb Hall in Milwaukee, why are you attacking me for offering a $10 course?

OK - so here is my challenge to you Santana - take the NRA Instructor Course and get your NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol rating, fly to Salt Lake and get your UT Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor Permit - and tell me to stay in Utah because you will teach all your courses for free. I will gladly accept that.

Jim

paul@paul-fisher.com · Aug 19, 2011

santana said:
And what makes you think the Wisconsin DOJ will recognize you as an approved instructor and courses, since they have yet to establish those parameters. Owning a house here and used to live here should not be a factor for anything.

175.60(4)(a)(1)(b) A firearms safety or training course that is conducted by a national or state organization that certifies firearms instructors.

175.60(4)(a)(1)(e) A firearms safety or training course that is conducted by a firearms instructor who is certified by a national or state organization that certifies firearms instructors or who is certified by the department.

Jim is a NRA certified instructor offering NRA certification courses. Meets one or both of the above.

175.60(4)(a)(3) A current or expired license, or a photocopy of a current or expired license, that the individual holds or has held that indicates that the individual is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or in another state or in a county or municipality of this state or of another state unless the license has been revoked for cause.

Jim is a UT certified firearms instructor and you can apply for a UT permit after completing his course so that meets this requirement.

As for owning a house, Jim was just stating that if people only like using WI based instructors, he is as close to one (land owner) as he can be without actually living here. If you don't care (I don't), don't worry about it.

All those are requirements, no interpretation allowed by the DOJ.

paul@paul-fisher.com · Aug 19, 2011

jpm84092 said:
Now, if I am going to take a bunch of flack for offering dirt cheap courses, my feelings will not be hurt, but I can always confine myself to visiting family and friends in WI and allow WI residents to pay more for training from other instructors. If WI Carry members want to attack me, I can "back off" and disappear from view in WI

Please ignore the idiots. I'm not sure santana is a WCI member and if he is, he doesn't speak for the organization (I don't either).

As a side note, if you can get a range, I plan on bringing my wife and she and I would take NRA Basic Pistol.

Outdoorsman1 · Aug 19, 2011

Ok, I do not speak for "The Organization" either but I sure as hell speak for myself and I would say about 90-95% of the people here and 100% of the people that actually know Jim...

I took both the basic pistol and the Utah Permit class from Jim and with no hesitation what so ever would recomend his classes to anyone and everyone I know. I was also invited to sit in on other instructors Utah and Basic Pistol Classes so I do have something to compare to and kinda know what I am talking about. Jim is witout a doubt the most qualified instuctor that I know of (and I know a few). He has certifications and credentials that he has not even mentioned here. For ANYONE to question his authority, qualifications, and reasons for offering classes in WI. just shows the total ignorance of the person doing the questioning.

Jim, just check out santana's join date and number of posts. This alone should be reason enough to IGNORE his comments. I would hate to see you discontinue offering your classes here based on someones ignorant comments. You do so much good and ask so little in return, you would b missed more than you know.

The range we used when I took your classes should be available but there would be a $10.00 per perosn (non-member) fee to use the range. The only catch would be that I (as a member) would have to be there, which should not be a problem. As far as the Home Defense Tactical Course, although I am 100% confident that it would be worth every penny, as of now, $135.00 is out of my affordability range.

Edited to add... Because of Jim's classes I can PROUDLY say that my Utah State Permit application has been received, credit card charged, and I am now just waiting for it to show up in the mail... Thanks again Jim...

Outdoorsman1

oak1971 · Aug 19, 2011

I would be interested in a Utah permit. I already qualify for WI via my hunter safety cert.

oak1971 · Aug 19, 2011

jpm84092 said:
Nope - I think WI will recognize me because of my NRA Instructor Credentials in accordance with the AB 35 Law as signed by the Governor. The law is quite clear that any NRA Course will qualify for WI Carry Permit - and ANY state's Concealed Firearm Permit will likewise qualify. Please re-read the FAQ on the WI DOJ website.

You are of course correct, owning a house here does not mean Jack to the DOJ, but it might mean something to purists who want instructors to be from WI. But, despite your post, a UT permit, in accordance with the "black letter law" of WI AB 35, does qualify as training for the WI permit.

Now, if I am going to take a bunch of flack for offering dirt cheap courses, my feelings will not be hurt, but I can always confine myself to visiting family and friends in WI and allow WI residents to pay more for training from other instructors. If WI Carry members want to attack me, I can "back off" and disappear from view in WI.

Please tell me why you are flaming a firearms instructor who will offer the UT CFP course for as little as $10 for a Military Veteran with the Purple Heart? With the Utah CFP course costing $125 in northern WI and as cheap as $60 at Serb Hall in Milwaukee, why are you attacking me for offering a $10 course?

OK - so here is my challenge to you Santana - take the NRA Instructor Course and get your NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol rating, fly to Salt Lake and get your UT Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor Permit - and tell me to stay in Utah because you will teach all your courses for free. I will gladly accept that.

Jim

That guy isn't a Wisconsin Carry member, just an internet commando.

Have Gun - Will Carry · Aug 19, 2011

jpm84092 said:
Now, if I am going to take a bunch of flack for offering dirt cheap courses, my feelings will not be hurt, but I can always confine myself to visiting family and friends in WI and allow WI residents to pay more for training from other instructors. If WI Carry members want to attack me, I can "back off" and disappear from view in WI.
Jim

Jim, I hope you didn't misunderstand my post - I was telling the new guy (with a mere 16 posts in a month or so... :banghead: ) to back off, not you! Having taken your UT CC course in East Troy, I hold your instructors' skills in high regard, and I sincerely appreciate the fact that you're willing to spend your vacation time here in WI teaching them.

Please, continue teaching these courses to your heart's content - although I wouldn't blame you if you suddenly lost that desire, given the attitude of some a$$es around here... The way I see it, there's plenty of room in WI for instructors and courses of all different kinds, so let demand dictate who survives or founders, not individuals' egos. Thanks for your efforts, and I hope to see you again in a couple weeks!

Grapeshot · Aug 19, 2011

oak1971 said:
That guy isn't a Wisconsin Carry member, just an internet commando.

Come on Oak - you've been around long enough to respond directly w/o personal attacks.

BROKENSPROKET · Aug 19, 2011

santana said:
And what makes you think the Wisconsin DOJ will recognize you as an approved instructor and courses, since they have yet to establish those parameters. Owning a house here and used to live here should not be a factor for anything.

He is a NRA Instructor. The DOJ cannot say he is not approved, because the statutes say he is. What a tool.

Grapeshot · Aug 19, 2011

BROKENSPROKET said:
He is a NRA Instructor. The DOJ cannot say he is not, because the statutes say he is. What a tool.

Is this a growing trend here? Replying responsibly, then destroying that with a personal attack.

Would prefer to not carry this gentle reminder further.

BROKENSPROKET · Aug 20, 2011

If I get a Non-Resident Utah permit, Kansas, New Mexico and Florida are off limits. If I also get a Non-Resident Minnesota Permit, I can pick up Kansas and New Mexico, but not Florida.

If I get a Non-Resident Florida Permit, I get every state I could with a Non-Resident Utah Permit plus Kansas, New Mexico and of course Florida, but not Minnesota.

You get more states with Florida and Minnesota permits, than you do with Utah and Minnesota permits. Why would I want a Utah Permit? If there is a good reason that I am not aware of, I would like to hear it.

ETA: Maybe I could just get Forida and Utah Permits and not bother with a Minnesota Permit.

Seriously, there alot of people that know this stuff better than I do. I just want to make the best decision.

jpm84092 · Aug 20, 2011

Even though Mr. Santana has been here just a few days, he has every right to his opinion as any other member of this forum. AND - if he is a PAID member of Wisconsin Carry - even more so.

Outdoorsman - you are one of my students, but my advanced courses do have a premium. However, because you are one of my students, if I teach PPITH, you can pay on a one year ($11.25 per month) - or two year - installment plan.

For other members of Wi Carry, if your current financial situation keeps you from taking one of my courses, PM me to arrange a 12 or 24 month payment plan (let's see - for a Combat Vet with the Purple Heart that would be $0.50 per month for 2 years for the UT CFP Course.) I do not want ANY Wisconsin resident to go without training in getting his/her WI permit because of finances.

Jim

BROKENSPROKET · Aug 20, 2011

Grapeshot said:
Is this a growing trend here? Replying responsibly, then destroying that with a personal attack.

Would prefer to not carry this gentle reminder further.

Whatever. I don't think any of my posts got deleted.

ETA: I understand what you are saying. I guess I need to take a break from the forum. These people that don't know what they are talking about are getting on my nerves.

bmwguy11 · Aug 20, 2011

So, how does the PP in the home course work? Do you teach it in a classroom or a range or ? I am VERY interested in that course. However, you mentioned you have to have NRA basic pistol first. But would you be willing to forego that requirement if we have have our UT permits? (my wife and I both took the basic pistol course at fletcher arms, and we both shoot almost weekly)

AaronS · Aug 20, 2011

Hey Jim,

I have three people that still need to take a class to make sure the Wisconsin permit can be had. I like the idea of the NRA basic pistol class for me, but for them I still think the best bet is to get the Utah permit (more stuff about laws). I don't know much around the East Troy so I am not sure of any ranges in the area...
I would think we must have a member or two from around the area...

My new permit might only have the red bar on top, but I am sure happy to have it.

Thanks,
Aaron

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