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Thread: help with oc laws..

  1. #1
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    help with oc laws..

    so can i oc at dtw, if so were can i .. can i go pass tsa. what are the rules.. and were can i find them "laws".. i live a block away from metro airpot..


    also were can i find info on carrying in a casino

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    You cant carry past the secure areas of an airport. I don't know if the airport is public or private, if its private, then they can ban them. As far as casinos, DrTodd can explain that better than I. I think this is the airport cite, there may be more.

    AERONAUTICS CODE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN (EXCERPT)
    Act 327 of 1945

    259.80f Possessing, carrying, or attempting to possess certain items in sterile area of airport; prohibitions; violations; penalties; exceptions; other violations; consecutive terms of imprisonment; definitions.
    Sec. 80f.
    (1) An individual shall not possess, carry, or attempt to possess or carry any of the following in a sterile area of a commercial airport:
    (a) Firearm.
    (b) Explosive.
    (c) Knife with a blade of any length.
    (d) Razor, box cutter, or item with a similar blade.
    (e) Dangerous weapon.
    (2) Except as provided in subsection (3), an individual who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $1,000.00, or both.
    (3) An individual who violates subsection (1) while doing any of the following is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 10 years or a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both:
    (a) Getting on or attempting to get on an aircraft.
    (b) Placing, attempting to place, or attempting to have placed on an aircraft an item listed in subsection (1).
    (c) Committing or attempting to commit a felony.
    (4) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A peace officer of a duly authorized police agency of this state, a political subdivision of this state, another state, a political subdivision of another state, or the United States.
    (b) An individual regularly employed by the department of corrections and authorized in writing by the director of the department of corrections to possess or carry an item listed in subsection (1) during the performance of his or her duties or while going to or returning from his or her duties.
    (c) A member of the United States army, air force, navy, marine corps, or coast guard while possessing or carrying an item listed in subsection (1) in the line of duty.
    (d) A member of the national guard, armed forces reserves, or other duly authorized military organization while on duty or drill or while possessing or carrying an item listed in subsection (1) for purposes of that military organization.
    (e) Security personnel employed to enforce federal regulations for access to a sterile area.
    (f) A court officer while engaged in his or her duties as a court officer as authorized by a court.
    (g) An airline or airport employee as authorized by his or her employer.
    (5) This section does not prohibit the individual from being charged with, convicted of, or punished for any other violation of law committed by that individual while violating this section.
    (6) A term of imprisonment imposed under this section may be served consecutively to any other term of imprisonment imposed for a violation of law arising out of the same transaction.
    (7) As used in this section:
    (a) “Commercial airport” means an airport that has regularly scheduled commercial flights to and from other destinations.
    (b) “Felony” means that term as defined in section 1 of chapter I of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 761.1, or a violation of a law of the United States that is designated as a felony or that is punishable by death or by imprisonment for more than 1 year.
    (c) “Sterile area” means that term as defined in 14 C.F.R. 107.1.

    I found this, whan I looked for 14 CFR 107.1

    [Code of Federal Regulations]
    [Title 14, Volume 2]
    [Revised as of January 1, 2002]
    From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
    [CITE: 14CFR107.3]

    [Page 323-324]

    TITLE 14--AERONAUTICS AND SPACE

    CHAPTER I--FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
    (Continued)

    PART 107--AIRPORT SECURITY--Table of Contents

    Subpart A--General

    Sec. 107.3 Definitions.

    Terms defined in part 108 of this chapter apply to this part. For
    purposes of this part, part 108 of this chapter, and security programs
    under these parts, the following definitions also apply:
    Air operations area (AOA) means a portion of an airport, specified
    in the airport security program, in which security measures specified in
    this part are carried out. This area includes aircraft movement areas,
    aircraft parking areas, loading ramps, and safety areas, for use by
    aircraft regulated under part 108 or Sec. 129.25 of this chapter, and
    any adjacent areas (such as general aviation areas) that are not
    separated by adequate security systems, measures, or procedures. This
    area does not include the secured area.
    Airport operator means a person that operates an airport serving an
    aircraft operator or a foreign air carrier required to have a security
    program under part 108 or Sec. 129.25 of this chapter.
    Airport security program means an airport operator's security
    program required under Sec. 107.101 and approved by the Administrator.
    Airport tenant means any person, other than an aircraft operator or
    foreign air carrier that has a security program under part 108 or
    Sec. 129.25 of this chapter, that has an agreement with the airport
    operator to conduct business on airport property.
    Airport tenant security program means the agreement between the
    airport operator and an airport tenant that specifies the measures by
    which the tenant will perform security functions under Sec. 107.113.
    Assistant Administrator means the FAA Assistant Administrator for
    Civil

    [[Page 324]]

    Aviation Security as described in 49 U.S.C. 44932.
    Escort means to accompany or monitor the activities of an individual
    who does not have unescorted access authority into or within a secured
    area or SIDA.
    Exclusive area means any portion of a secured area, AOA, or SIDA,
    including individual access points, for which an aircraft operator or
    foreign air carrier that has a security program under part 108 or
    Sec. 129.25 of this chapter has assumed responsibility under
    Sec. 107.111.
    Exclusive area agreement means an agreement between the airport
    operator and an aircraft operator or a foreign air carrier that has a
    security program under part 108 or Sec. 129.25 of this chapter that
    permits such an aircraft operator or foreign air carrier to assume
    responsibility for specified security measures in accordance with
    Sec. 107.111.
    Secured area means a portion of an airport, specified in the airport
    security program, in which certain security measures specified in this
    part are carried out. This area is where aircraft operators and foreign
    air carriers that have a security program under part 108 or Sec. 129.25
    of this chapter enplane and deplane passengers and sort and load baggage
    and any adjacent areas that are not separated by adequate security
    systems, measures, or procedures.
    Security Identification Display Area (SIDA) means a portion of an
    airport, specified in the airport security program, in which security
    measures specified in this part are carried out. This area includes the
    secured area and may include other areas of the airport.
    Unescorted access authority means the authority granted to
    individuals by an airport operator, aircraft operator, foreign air
    carrier, or airport tenant authorized under this part or parts 108 or
    129 of this chapter to gain entry to, and be present without an escort
    in secured areas and SIDA's.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    so can i oc at dtw, if so were can i .. can i go pass tsa. what are the rules.. and were can i find them "laws".. i live a block away from metro airpot..


    also were can i find info on carrying in a casino
    Not only you cannot carry a firearm while going through TSA check, but you will be arrested. Carrying prior to TSA checkpoint (prior to sterile area) at the airport is genrally legal in Michigan. Can not speak for other states

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    knife

    were is the law on me carrying a knife. i just got one and it has a 3in blade... can some one give me the mcl number..

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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    were is the law on me carrying a knife. i just got one and it has a 3in blade... can some one give me the mcl number..
    Google is your friend.

    5th result for "knife MCL"

    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7...__NON_PISTOLS_

    5. Is it illegal to have a knife with a blade over 3 inches in my possession?
    MCL 750.226 No. Michigan law specifies that a person, with intent to use the knife unlawfully against another, shall not go armed with a knife having a blade over 3 inches in length.


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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Here you go. Make sure you read it closely; especially the very first line. Don't read "into" what isn't there as most people do.

    MCL 750.226

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Google is your friend.

    5th result for "knife MCL"

    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7...__NON_PISTOLS_

    5. Is it illegal to have a knife with a blade over 3 inches in my possession?
    MCL 750.226 No. Michigan law specifies that a person, with intent to use the knife unlawfully against another, shall not go armed with a knife having a blade over 3 inches in length.

    sry i found it after i posted this..


    side note, ill just stick with my lil 3 inch, no pun attended

  8. #8
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    DTW is owned by Wayne County and operated by the Wayne County Airport Authority.

    Therefore, since owned by Wayne County, they cannot ban guns. I OC'd there a week ago while picking up a friend arriving from New York.

    Beyond the TSA checkpoint in the so-called Sterile area is a Federal matter and it is highly against Federal Law.

    My experience was as I stood 25' from the checkpoint was a few TSA agents looked at me weird but port authority officers walked past me several times. None of them stopped to even say booo.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Before you make that decision; it is VERY important you keep in mind, that knives are NOT covered by preemption in any way.
    Cities and local governments can set ordinances to regulate possession/length of any knife. So it can be risky traveling from town to town as to weather or not you are in violation. Check the local ordinances first.
    Most cities cite the 3 inch rule and "ignore" the "unlawful intent" portion.

    JMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    Before you make that decision; it is VERY important you keep in mind, that knives are NOT covered by preemption in any way.
    Cities and local governments can set ordinances to regulate possession/length of any knife. So it can be risky traveling from town to town as to weather or not you are in violation. Check the local ordinances first.
    Most cities cite the 3 inch rule and "ignore" the "unlawful intent" portion.

    JMO
    well i got a bug so idk if i will drop the knife or should i drop the knife from my set up

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Lightbulb A knife is a bad cops "friend" when it comes to OCers.

    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7...__NON_PISTOLS_

    5. Is it illegal to have a knife with a blade over 3 inches in my possession?
    MCL 750.226 No. Michigan law specifies that a person, with intent to use the knife unlawfully against another, shall not go armed with a knife having a blade over 3 inches in length.

    Now reading this most people would say hey I'm not a criminal so - I can carry the SOG Flash II I just bought at Lowes it has a 3.5" blade, because as long as you are not using it in a crime according to state law you can carry a machete. BUT as Warchild pointed out there is no preemption for knives. Many cities have their own rules. Dearborn has a no knife ordinance (with a work clause???) WTF. So as you can see it gets weird quick.

    Last year a OCer in Southgate was detained while having dinner with his friends & family at buffalo wild wings. When the cop couldn't give RAS he then proceeded to pat him down, finding a pocket knife, he was charged with a weapons violation under their ordinance, arrested & detained for approximately an hour. It got tossed in court and he won a settlement but a knife is a bad cops "friend" when it comes to OCers. When I am carrying my sidearms I never carry a knife.
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 08-22-2011 at 10:20 PM. Reason: spelling malfunction.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    very glad i asked this question.. i guess my new 7 dollor knife will be left at home all this talk about citys banning them makes me a lil uneasy

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    very glad i asked this question.. i guess my new 7 dollor knife will be left at home all this talk about citys banning them makes me a lil uneasy
    Yep good choice. I'm a knife collector, and its sickening not being able to carry any of them when carrying a firearm(s).
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 08-22-2011 at 10:26 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Yep good choice. I'm a knife collector, and its sickening not being able to carry any of them when carrying a firearm(s).
    no one has told me this before ... now can i keep one in my car..

    i no people who carry a pocket knife all the time.. i wonder do they no citys can override and make there own laws..

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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    no one has told me this before ... now can i keep one in my car..

    i no people who carry a pocket knife all the time.. i wonder do they no citys can override and make there own laws..
    Again not recommended, because should an officer see it in a city that has an ordinance against them it will be used against you in court thus justifying a otherwise illegal detainment. You are walking into McDonalds - cop see you leave your car - looks in window and sees knife in console - now guess what he/she/it now has a reason to detain you even though you are legal in all other ways. Remember a weapons violation charge may lead to a suspension of your CPL until you can sort it out in court and your sidearm may be confiscated also until court is over.

    Not worth it over seven bucks I say?
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 08-22-2011 at 10:36 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    i will not be bring that with me any more...

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    i always carry a pocketknife, but mine is in compliance with state law (benchmade 557).

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    i always carry a pocketknife, but mine is in compliance with state law (benchmade 557).
    Think you missed the point when it comes to knives state law does not trump city law. Dooooh
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Think you missed the point when it comes to knives state law does not trump city law. Dooooh
    lol

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    i'm willing to take that risk in the detroit area. the problem cities are centerline and taylor?

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    i'm willing to take that risk in the detroit area. the problem cities are centerline and taylor?
    There are many problem cities when it comes to knives. The bulk of Wayne Co. cities are anti-knife carry.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    i was going by this: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

    got a cite for any others not on the list?

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    i was going by this: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

    got a cite for any others not on the list?
    Seriously - if you want a feel for just how nutty local knife laws can be check out Dearborns.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    according to my list, dearborn allows up to 3".

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    according to my list, dearborn allows up to 3".
    Sorry - looks like they updated it in July of 2003? One less to worry about.

    http://library.municode.com/HTML/124...SAPOCEWEOTDADE

    After thought: even if a knife is of a legal size??? It gives an officer the chance to conjure up RAS if so desired. Because most men carry folders a officer simply has to say well I know I'm not supposed to stop "them" just because they are carrying properly holstered side arms but how did I know if the knife was legal or not without a search?
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 08-22-2011 at 11:12 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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