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John Stossel And Dog The Bounty Hunter Make The Case For Privatizing Law Enforcement
- Thread starter For Pete's Sake!
- Start date
Dreamer
Regular Member
Yeah, privatizing LE will make it SOOOO much better...
That's exactly what we need--replace the thugs who ARE somewhat limited by the Constitution by a bunch of independent mercenaries that aren't because they are private citizens...
I mean, Blackwater is doing such a great job in Iraq compared to the Constitutionally- and Geneva Convention-limited Military, right?...
WTF are these people thinking?
That's exactly what we need--replace the thugs who ARE somewhat limited by the Constitution by a bunch of independent mercenaries that aren't because they are private citizens...
I mean, Blackwater is doing such a great job in Iraq compared to the Constitutionally- and Geneva Convention-limited Military, right?...
WTF are these people thinking?
ManInBlack
Regular Member
It can't be much worse than what we have now. Besides, at least you can sue private individuals/companies without getting their permission first, and they aren't protected by the false doctrine of "good faith." The same cannot be said about the government.
SavageOne
Regular Member
A semi-private Law Enforcement plan has worked in San Francisco for over 160 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrol_Special_police
I could get behind a plan like this. It would make the LEO more accountable to citizens of their district. If they're not doing the job or not doing it properly then you fire them and find someone who will. I doubt the Unions would care for it though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrol_Special_police
I could get behind a plan like this. It would make the LEO more accountable to citizens of their district. If they're not doing the job or not doing it properly then you fire them and find someone who will. I doubt the Unions would care for it though.
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Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
This! "Accountability" is the issue. I have rarely heard any individual advocating LEO's no longer existing. LEO's are necessary for social order, IMO. What I do hear from individuals, no matter the ideological stance, is that, accountability must be established, and enforced.
Brass Magnet
Founder's Club Member
I guess everyone else missed the Robocop reference so I'll give you props!
As to the OP, I think it could work as long as they aren't given qualified imunity. I'd much prefer the old model of citizens taking care of most things while being directed by LE. That would give us a lot less LEO's and more people that actually care.
Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
I guess everyone else missed the Robocop reference so I'll give you props!
As to the OP, I think it could work as long as they aren't given qualified imunity. I'd much prefer the old model of citizens taking care of most things while being directed by LE. That would give us a lot less LEO's and more people that actually care.
How empathytic of you. "People who actually care."
Uber_Olafsun
Regular Member
I see your robocop and raise you with Kuffs dealing with SFs special police.
There has been no "Blackwater" since 2009. New entity is named "Xe".
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/13/AR2009021303149.html
ManInBlack
Regular Member
And this is exactly why people like you accept tyranny.
I don't know who you hang out with, but if "law enforcement" went away tomorrow, 99.99% of the people I know would behave in exactly the same manner as they do now, with the possible exception of driving maybe 4-5 mph faster. The whole notion that, if not for thin blue line of "law enforcement," the barbarians would break through the city gates and society would descend into chaos is purely an illusion foisted upon us by the government caste, statists, and degenerates like Thomas Hobbes.
EDIT: I hasten to add that the .01% that are criminals would also continue to behave in the same fashion, but that is why I carry a gun.
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SFCRetired
Regular Member
I'll add a hearty, "AMEN!!" to that.
You could eliminate all law enforcement agencies, get the majority of law-abiding citizens to arm themselves, and you would most probably see a huge reduction in a crime rate that is already dropping. The other thing that has to be done is resume teaching responsibility for your actions in both the home and in the schools.
I'll grant that there is a tiny group of people who, for whatever reason, are still going to deliberately try to prey on others. With a well-armed society, they won't be around very long. I also don't think we'd have to support the huge prison population we now have for much longer.
ccwinstructor
Centurion
Social Order existed for a long time without LEOs
LEOs are a relatively new phenomena, about 160 years old or so.
Before that, enforcement depended on citizen militias/posses formed by a sheriff, or by the Army.
LEOs are a relatively new phenomena, about 160 years old or so.
Before that, enforcement depended on citizen militias/posses formed by a sheriff, or by the Army.
Brass Magnet
Founder's Club Member
I wrote"MORE people who actually care." Please don't misquote me.
MR Redenck
Regular Member
Dog the Bounty hunter is a complete idiot.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Beat me too it. I just read some interesting stuff on how "violence" actually went up in the west when Law enforcement was added to the mix and "society" gained a footing.
Notice though she doesn't talk about violence its "social order", socialism and positivist view points have to have a violent unit to override our innate natural desire for liberty.
Aknazer
Regular Member
I can see a private police force working but I don't see the point unless you have some way that both promotes competition and doesn't lead to the cops being overly aggressive. But if you can get a private police force to work then you can get our current police force to work.
Personally I would rather see less government involvement and more citizens taking care of things.
Personally I would rather see less government involvement and more citizens taking care of things.
sraacke
Regular Member
I disagree. I work in security at a metro hospital. In addition I have been a scanner hobbiest since I was 12 years old. My dad was a cop. I work with cops here in the crap part of town. I was even an unpaid, POST certified (armed) auxillary LEO for a short time. I worked as a correction officer for about 7 years too. I see the dregs of humanity nightly on shift. I hear the calls which go out EVERY night over the police radios. Fights. Robberies. Shootings. Stabbings. Rapes. Add in the stuff like suspicious cars cruising a neighborhood which could be someone looking to break in somewhere. Add in the reports of someone in someones backyard or outside thir bedroom window. Add in the "My ex girl/boy friend is smashing out the windows of my car and/or slashing my tires" calls. Add in the group of young men standing on the corner with loud music playing in the middle of the night calls. And on and on.
Carrying a gun is not the answer to much of this for most people.
You don't tell the little old lady or man who lives by him/herself to rock out with thier glock out and go investigate the noise or movement they noticed in the back yard by the shed at 2am. YOU CALL THE COPS.
You don't tell the girl who broke up with her abusive boyfriend to go out and subdue him when he shows up at her apartment and starts smashing up her car. YOU CALL THE COPS.
You don't tell the handicaped woman who can barely get from her bed to the bathroom and back without falling to take on a guy trying to kick in her door to get what's left of her disability check. YOU CALL THE COPS.
You don't chase down the suspected drunk driver who cut you off in traffic and is swerving all over the road then drag him out of his vehicle and cuff him to the bed of your pickup. YOU CALL THE COPS.
Do I wish we lived in a world where people were responsible and took care of stuff themselves? Sure but those days are gone if they ever really existed. We have people who are trapped bad situations. There are those who prey on those people. There are those who can't help but screw up. They have anger management issues. They have mental problems. They are addicted to drugs or alcohol. They are part of the entitlement culture which has been raised to think that the world owes them everything.
I'm tying assigned to the ER security desk for 2 hours tonight. Right now, looking at the tracking board for our ER beds I see we have 5 patients listed as Psych holds. We have an entire psych ward on our 5th and 4th floors of our hospital full of people who were, at one time out on the streets and are now here. Within just a couple of blocks of our hospital are homeless shelters, rehab centers, halfway houses and more low income and section 8 housing than you can shake a stick at.
We need cops out there keeping the crap under some sort of control. Don't beleive me? Go to a website like Radio Reference and tune into the streaming audio of your local big city police agency. They run straight from one call to another most of the time. It's insane. The answer is constant patroling to keep an eye out on the hethens who roam the roads. The citizens aren't going to do it on their own.
Sorry. I live in the real word and know what's happening around me. I hang out with people who don't live in a fantasy world where we can get rid of the po-po and all police our own neighborhoods. It just ain't gonna happen.
slowfiveoh
Regular Member
All these things add to the mentality pervading modern society, mostly fuelled by the proponents of "law and order". The mentality that offloading our personal responsibilities to an external entity are appropriate, and/or right. The dismal belief that whilst one gets their belongings damaged, their faces beat in, their children murdered, or their wife raped, that one should;
A) Possess the time and physical possibility at all times to dig for their cell-phone
and
B) Lower their entitlement to life so far as to literally put a 8 or 16 minute (Whatever your average response time is in your locality) hold on doing anything about what is actually occurring, that is, if the police even come at all.
Calling a cop during times of duress is like ordering a pizza. Convenient if you don't mind the wait. Do you mind the wait?
No you call the cops. I certainly do grab my firearm, make sure the wife and children are situated, and investigate personally any possible follishness occuring on my property, endangering the life of my family, and the integrity of my life belongings. I will do this today. I will do this when I'm 90. Its ok. The wifes Mossberg will have the final say should anything happen to me.
If said girl was aptly armed, she could easily solve this situation herself, and likely in a non-violent manner. When "ex-boyfriends" and other abusive types learn that their preying on the weak will not be tolerated, only then will society change. Not because some dork with a badge showed up after the boyfriend already left to do nothing but file a report so you can report it to your insurance. While this girl submits her claim to the insurance company and prays to god the freshly filed restraining order be abided by, maybe she can say a prayer for the next girl this dirtbag abuses. Its cool though, because the police filed a report for you. Right?
Problem completely solved by the presence of a pistol on her hip, and on her person at any and all times. Hell, I gave a dude with no freaking legs a ride to his house after the city bus left him stranded at the local convenience store. He told me, "Sir thanks for the ride, but I am capable of defending myself if need be. I just thought you should know!" I smiled and laughed at the coincidence that I had literally opted to leave the RIA 1911 in its holster back at the house. This was supposed to be a quick smoke run. I of course let him know that this didn't bother me in the slightest, and asked him what he was carrying. Turns out he has a preference for Lugers, and his was a beautiful black matte finish one at that..
So if I had decided to turn into Charles Manson that night, and start serial killing old disabled men, I have no doubt his "equalizer" would have left particulates and matter all over my windshield.
I am also thinking maybe you are unaware that a large percentage of handicapped people do in fact carry? Lot's to be learned there.
This I agree on. Only because the event has already transpired. Furthermore LEO has a operable communications advantage allowing for creation of some form of roadblock or other safety net for this individuals actions.
So you forego any idea that maybe a societal change needs to be evoked in the people? That perhaps, responsibility, as a "diminishing" factor as you allude to, should be responded to by allowing government to take control of those "not responsible".
What a tangled web we weave...
Like cops? They are people too.
Like cops? They are people too.
Like cops? They are people too.
Like cops? They are people too.
Like cops? They are people too.
Like cops? They are people too.
Whose parents may just be cops? (Among the other thousands of occupational specialities breeding this "entitlement" and "Irresponsibility"?)
I can't help but wonder how your assessment of the quantity of mental ill transients has any bearing whatsoever on the ability to individually defend ones self, home, and family?
Are you saying that since there is an enormity of mentally ill transients in a given locale, that one should be less prepared to defend ones self?
Please clarify whatever point, if you can, that you were trying to make by saying there is an abundance of mentally ill people. Thanks.
"Control" is primarily an illusion when it comes to law enforcement. The dynamics of which are so staggeringly broad and diverse, that the chaotic nature of "right and wrong" cannot ever be contained by any law enforcement agency, of any number, ever.
One thing can remain a constant however. The right of every individual to defend their life.
Criminals as they are now know a few common things:
#1.) Most people are not armed due to;
a. Extensive efforts to demonize the greatest tool ever devised for equitable self defense.
b. Legislation complicating, or flat out denying the ownership of said tool. Even in the face of our Constitution recognizing a reality known so long ago by the veteran escapees of tyrannical dictatorship.
#2.) The police take time to respond. This creates the window the criminal/s needs. They can only wish and hope that #1 has successfully corrupted this targets mentality, and thanks to senseless, non-factual, dramatized, inappropriate campaigning, there is a numerically acceptable chance that they will face unarmed opposition.
That's right. Convince those "citizens" that they can't or shouldn't do it "on their own". Making a neighborhood safe one responsible firearm owning adult at a time is a whole lot more senseless than calling the badge wearing tooth fairy to come to your rescue while some druggie kicks your door in, knocks you around your living room and kitchen, steals your belongings, and shames you for life, all in half the time of the average police response.
Honestly, it doesn't sound like it.
There are certain people who present a hilarious conundrum. They are like living paradox's. The living, breathing testaments to self fulfilling prophecy. Let me know when you understand the implication of the preceding comment..
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Note: fixed the paragraph spacing to make the post easier to read.
You make excellent counter points - your input is most appreciated.
Hard to beat first hand experience from someone who has been there and done that.
You make excellent counter points - your input is most appreciated.
Hard to beat first hand experience from someone who has been there and done that.