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Thread: O/C San Diego experience

  1. #1
    Regular Member dumbbe11s's Avatar
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    O/C San Diego experience

    I was with my family in the El Cajon area of San Diego. An area that has enough crime (sex offenders) to warrent an open carry day. My family and I were outside a bike store as my spouse was test riding a bike. A women patron of said bike store, whom I held the store door open for, was putting her bike into her car. She was wearing a bright neon colored sports bra and some spandex type short-shorts (a typical outfit for the bicycle scene) and pretty attractive. She asked me if she could ask me a question. I said, "sure."

    "Why do you have a gun?", the women asked with a hint of disapproval.
    "Why shouldn't I.", I retorted. I don't think the women was prepared for my reply. She gave a look considering my side of the arguement.
    In a sarcastic tone she finally stated, "What a message that you are sending!" Then she heading to the drivers door of her car.
    "Okay. It is perfectly legal." I turn my back to watch my spouse continue to test ride a bike.

    I give her props for approaching me. I am plus six feet, plus 200 pounds, and I had a weapons on at the time. Intimidating by some standards. However, her not wanting to engage in a civil discussion on the issue, just making sarcastic statements on the run is a bit of a downer. I can only make assumptions on her political views.
    Last edited by dumbbe11s; 08-23-2011 at 12:04 AM.

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    +1 for oc and for you protecting your family, -1 for your tact in choosing your words in this encounter.

    By using your words more carefully, you could have been a little more polite and professional, you could have informed her why you carry, and that you have taking the
    responsibly for your families safety.

    As it was, you just made fence sitter, into an anti.

  3. #3
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbbe11s View Post
    "Why do you have a gun?", the women asked with a hint of disapproval.
    "Why shouldn't I.", I retorted. I don't think the women was prepared for my reply. She gave a look considering my side of the arguement.
    In a sarcastic tone she finally stated, "What a message that you are sending!" Then she heading to the drivers door of her car.
    "Okay. It is perfectly legal." I turn my back to watch my spouse continue to test ride a bike.
    =-(

    Quote Originally Posted by Iopencarry View Post
    -1 for your tact in choosing your words in this encounter...As it was, you just made fence sitter, into an anti.
    ^ This. Though I dont think this person was really a fence-sitter.

    The concepts of "Because it's my right", "Why shouldn't I" or "I don't need to explain myself/a reason" are all challenges that will result in the observer parting with a negative impression of your choices. The OP had already an idea that the person they were encountering had a problem with the presence of a gun, so a more thoughtful approach is required.

    She asked, "Why do you carry a gun?"

    It sounds like what she came away after this was that you carry for the express purpose of intimidation and create confrontation with those who disapprove of firearm ownership.

    Keeping the response breif, I would have asked her if she had a choice of maintaining a fire extinguisher or allowing her house to burn down waiting for the fire department, which would she choose? Then I would draw the parallel from fire preparedness to personal defense.

    Working out what you want to say in advance and roleplaying will help develop a better 'patter' between you and those people who want to know more.
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  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    I think you did alright. You can always try humor to start a good gun conversation as well. I have used this more than once to good effect. Them: "Why are you carrying that gun?" Me: "Because it hasn't learned to walk yet." Seriously this approach works. If they laugh or smile you have a good chance of having a productive discussion. If they huff and puff, it is probably not worth your energy.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  5. #5
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    I might have used another question or two towards her first instead. Such as, Do you have car insurance, life insurance, or a fire extinguisher? Do you wear your seat belt when driving or lock your car doors or lock up your home? And then, "Are you EXPECTING to....?"

    Then relate these actions/activities are ALL a form of protecting oneself from either physical or financial harm in the event of an UNFORESEEN situation.

    Yes, you CAN call 911 and or scream for help and the police when they arrive may only serve the function of an armed stenographer--- please don't read that as anti-police but it is reality when you have 1 officer for literally 100's or 1000's of residents and the officers don't come to the scene of a crime UNTIL after they have been called.

    These may NOT have changed the outcome but may not have been seen as quite as much of an"in your face" response
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 08-21-2011 at 09:38 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbbe11s View Post
    "Why do you have a gun?"
    Because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.


    Quote Originally Posted by dumbbe11s View Post
    "What a message that you are sending!"
    Yes, and the message is....Hey, bad guy, go victimize someone else.

  7. #7
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    "I am responsible for the safety of my family and myself. This gun is to ensure that I am the one talking to the police when they finally arrive."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    "I am responsible for the safety of my family and myself. This gun is to ensure that I am the one talking to the police when they finally arrive."
    +100 very good reply

  9. #9
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    I might explain to them that:
    according to my experience as an EMT, the ideal response time for any emergency service is at least 5 minutes, longer during rush hour or in rural region. And usually EMT comes even before the LE.
    (that's why in EMT school they always emphasis that you should not intervene a violent scene until LE arrives... because you usually get there before the LE.)

  10. #10
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Hey Dumbbe11s, Im glad you posted this experience. With all the time we (the collective UOC we) spend preparing for carry and watching out for LE and school zones, etc... I think you bring up an excellent topic that needs to be discussed and worked on more so than the others, and that is we are trying to convince the general public to deprogram what they have learned from anti gun propoganda and see the message we are trying to portray. Rights as Americans and our responsibilities to ourselves and our family as well as our community, that like freedom of speech and the press and religion, are just as important as freedom and responsibility to defend ourselves.

    So here is what I cued in on that might be important from your description, The lady ASKED YOU PERMISSION to ask you a question. SO whether she is pro or anti gun she showed that a) in front of an armed individual who was to her a stranger she was polite and cordial to you, b) if she had any fear, her curiosity was stronger and she wished to engage in conversation with you about something she wanted to know more about. c) despite your appearance or size she was not intimidated.

    This is the opportunities that I believe many UOC'rs are just not that prepared for or have NOT done enough role playing to be an effective ambassador for gun rights. If you look at my signature line below, Gene sums up nicely what we are dealing with and how we are viewed by many.

    Know not knowing her affect or her non verbal language and body cues or even the tone of her voice at the beginning of this interaction, its difficult to pigeon hole or place her in any mindset or political category as far as personal stance or belief systems, I know monday morning quarterback we can come up with all sorts of negative and shoulda coulda, but here is my list of things I do when contacted by citizens while open carry. Please anyone feel free to comment or add your own.

    1) Smile- be genuine and relaxed and smile at the person you are talking to show them that your disposition is friendly. In fact smile at everyone who makes eye contact with you while carrying, it is the best and sometimes only ambassaor of goodwill gesture we can make.
    2) Positiviely answer the question- be prepared with the brief statement that best describes your personal reasons, that allow for follow up questions and conversation, my example---"I carry for self protection, because California wont allow citizens to carry conceaeled" I leave it plain and simple with limited info that encourages engagement in conversation.
    3) Introduce yourself- if the person engages in conversation (follows up with question or comment even if its negative) stop, introduce yourself, extend your hand, be cordial and neighborly. Demonstrate the opposite idea of what many people believe gun people are just political gun nuts with attitudes. ALWAYS strive to be more friendly and cordial with the person interacting with you (especially LE). It has a disarming effect and uses just a bit of guilt to get the other to match you or feel inadequate, its a verbal judo technique and its very powerful, LE uses it all the time.
    4) Compliment them- pay them a compliment, I like to use "Thank you for being so open and honest, most people tend to just stare or leer at me and judge me by appearance rather that finding out for themselves." This one comment not only validates that engaging in conversation was the right and decent thing to do it also serves to teach that many people in this world are still very biased and judgemental and the person talking to you is not, and should not want to be such.
    5) ALWAYS ask if they want to hear about the civil rights movement regarding UOC- If they are a fence sitter or even slightly leaning toward anti gun, giving them the opportunity to graciously drop out of the conversation, saves you time and energy and allows them to not feel overtly pushed by "a gun nut with an agenda" which is what you will be affirming if you push the conversation on them. If they answer in the affirmitive and want to engage in conversation then pull out your pamphlets, talk about the truth vs the propoganda, give them all the facts you have prepared and memorized. Just dont overwhlem them, give them enough, to encourage them to ask for more, when they have had enough they will indicate to you they are full, and you can stop before sounding overzealous. The goal is to have them leave, questioning any sort of anti gun lies they have been brainwashed with, and the experience of an encounter with a genuinely nice, decent, regular American, who just happend to be armed.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

  11. #11
    Regular Member dumbbe11s's Avatar
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    This is all great insights to my experience. It was 3rd time O/Cing and was the first actual negative encounter. I am sure as I continue to exercise my right to carry my responses, or discussions with others will be turn to an informative to all. Thank you to everyone that has replies thus far and I hope to meet some of you at the 25 Aug meet in La Masa.

  12. #12
    Regular Member tcmech's Avatar
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    I never open carried in California when I lived there so I can only say keep up the good work, and keep up the positive attitude when dealing with the non carrying public.

    I have been blessed to live in an area where a lot of the heavy lifting has been done by many on the OCDO board that live here in Virginia before I started open carrying. I really do like the fact that not only can I conceal carry a loaded weapon (legally with a permit) but I can open carry a loaded firearm without a permit.
    If Obama is the answer; how stupid was the question?

  13. #13
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    Tell em it's a chocolate gun that you got in your Easter Basket. Your still waiting for a sex offender volunteer who wants to suck on it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbbe11s View Post
    I was with my family in the El Cajon area of San Diego. An area that has enough crime (sex offenders) to warrent an open carry day. My family and I were outside a bike store a
    I hope you were not at Inkys schwinn...1000 Broadway. Falls easy within GFSZ.(about 850 feet)

  15. #15
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    You really need to think out an articulate response, one that actually addresses the reasons you carry a gun.

    "Why are you carrying a gun?"

    "Because I think I should have the ability to defend the most precious things in the world to me, my life and the lives of my loved ones. There are evil people in the world who left to their own devices would rob, rape, or kill if given the opportunity. Like a house fire these instances may be few and far between, but you keep a fire extinguisher handy on the off chance a fire starts. I carry a firearm for the same reason, if the unthinkable happens, I want to be able to defend myself and my family, and maybe even other innocent bystanders such as yourself."

  16. #16
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Why are you carrying a gun?

    I carry a firearm for self defense.

    I carry it openly because the Sheriff refuses to issue me a concealed carry licence, (even though I have concealed carry licences' valid in 30 other States). The California courts have ruled that a Sheriff may deny a licence for concealed carry and not be infringing on my right to keep and bear arms because the California law allows for openly carried firearms for self defense. Its been this way since 1850 when the state was first founded.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

  17. #17
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    Keep it simple....

    It's part of my families self-defense plan... for when the police cannot get here in time.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    Hey Dumbbe11s, Im glad you posted this experience. With all the time we (the collective UOC we) spend preparing for carry and watching out for LE and school zones, etc... I think you bring up an excellent topic that needs to be discussed and worked on more so than the others, and that is we are trying to convince the general public to deprogram what they have learned from anti gun propoganda and see the message we are trying to portray. Rights as Americans and our responsibilities to ourselves and our family as well as our community, that like freedom of speech and the press and religion, are just as important as freedom and responsibility to defend ourselves.

    So here is what I cued in on that might be important from your description, The lady ASKED YOU PERMISSION to ask you a question. SO whether she is pro or anti gun she showed that a) in front of an armed individual who was to her a stranger she was polite and cordial to you, b) if she had any fear, her curiosity was stronger and she wished to engage in conversation with you about something she wanted to know more about. c) despite your appearance or size she was not intimidated.

    This is the opportunities that I believe many UOC'rs are just not that prepared for or have NOT done enough role playing to be an effective ambassador for gun rights. If you look at my signature line below, Gene sums up nicely what we are dealing with and how we are viewed by many.

    Know not knowing her affect or her non verbal language and body cues or even the tone of her voice at the beginning of this interaction, its difficult to pigeon hole or place her in any mindset or political category as far as personal stance or belief systems, I know monday morning quarterback we can come up with all sorts of negative and shoulda coulda, but here is my list of things I do when contacted by citizens while open carry. Please anyone feel free to comment or add your own.

    1) Smile- be genuine and relaxed and smile at the person you are talking to show them that your disposition is friendly. In fact smile at everyone who makes eye contact with you while carrying, it is the best and sometimes only ambassaor of goodwill gesture we can make.
    2) Positiviely answer the question- be prepared with the brief statement that best describes your personal reasons, that allow for follow up questions and conversation, my example---"I carry for self protection, because California wont allow citizens to carry conceaeled" I leave it plain and simple with limited info that encourages engagement in conversation.
    3) Introduce yourself- if the person engages in conversation (follows up with question or comment even if its negative) stop, introduce yourself, extend your hand, be cordial and neighborly. Demonstrate the opposite idea of what many people believe gun people are just political gun nuts with attitudes. ALWAYS strive to be more friendly and cordial with the person interacting with you (especially LE). It has a disarming effect and uses just a bit of guilt to get the other to match you or feel inadequate, its a verbal judo technique and its very powerful, LE uses it all the time.
    4) Compliment them- pay them a compliment, I like to use "Thank you for being so open and honest, most people tend to just stare or leer at me and judge me by appearance rather that finding out for themselves." This one comment not only validates that engaging in conversation was the right and decent thing to do it also serves to teach that many people in this world are still very biased and judgemental and the person talking to you is not, and should not want to be such.
    5) ALWAYS ask if they want to hear about the civil rights movement regarding UOC- If they are a fence sitter or even slightly leaning toward anti gun, giving them the opportunity to graciously drop out of the conversation, saves you time and energy and allows them to not feel overtly pushed by "a gun nut with an agenda" which is what you will be affirming if you push the conversation on them. If they answer in the affirmitive and want to engage in conversation then pull out your pamphlets, talk about the truth vs the propoganda, give them all the facts you have prepared and memorized. Just dont overwhlem them, give them enough, to encourage them to ask for more, when they have had enough they will indicate to you they are full, and you can stop before sounding overzealous. The goal is to have them leave, questioning any sort of anti gun lies they have been brainwashed with, and the experience of an encounter with a genuinely nice, decent, regular American, who just happend to be armed.
    This needs to be a video. No joke

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