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Thread: Upcoming Miami gun show

  1. #1
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    Upcoming Miami gun show

    I'm tired of dealing with people on floridaguntrader.com that are ignorant of the federal and FL laws, that clearly state that it isn't a crime to purchase a handgun via private sale at 18-21 years of age. Based on your experiences at gun shows in FL, are most of the sellers private? I really want a P220 and a P226, but nobody wants to sell their guns .
    Last edited by KeepShootin; 08-21-2011 at 03:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    you'll probably have a hard time. Most FFL dealers in Florida I've dealt with have no clue as to the laws regarding sales of firearms, never mind the private sellers!
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    you'll probably have a hard time. Most FFL dealers in Florida I've dealt with have no clue as to the laws regarding sales of firearms, never mind the private sellers!
    Damn . I'm still going to try, though. Let me run this by you. If I had someone else buy a handgun through a private seller, simply because the seller doesn't want to sell to someone that is between the ages of 18 and 21, it wouldn't be considered a straw purchase, would it? Because, I can LEGALLY obtain the gun, but the buyer is just too stupid to realize that. Straw purchasing is just when you have no legal method of obtaining the weapon, and have someone else go buy it for you, like through an FFL (if you are between the ages of 18 and 21), right?

  4. #4
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeepShootin View Post
    Damn . I'm still going to try, though. Let me run this by you. If I had someone else buy a handgun through a private seller, simply because the seller doesn't want to sell to someone that is between the ages of 18 and 21, it wouldn't be considered a straw purchase, would it? Because, I can LEGALLY obtain the gun, but the buyer is just too stupid to realize that. Straw purchasing is just when you have no legal method of obtaining the weapon, and have someone else go buy it for you, like through an FFL (if you are between the ages of 18 and 21), right?
    That would still be straw purchasing, But if somebody was to buy a firearm for you as a gift then
    that is legal but you can not give them the money. "example" Early birthday present, Early Christmas Gift
    or just because they love you and know you always wanted one.
    But again you can NOT give them the money and have them buy it for you.

    I am not an Attorney and this is just my opinion.
    God Bless America.

  5. #5
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    That would still be straw purchasing, But if somebody was to buy a firearm for you as a gift then
    that is legal but you can not give them the money. "example" Early birthday present, Early Christmas Gift
    or just because they love you and know you always wanted one.
    But again you can NOT give them the money and have them buy it for you.

    I am not an Attorney and this is just my opinion.

    come to palmetto or tampa...there's always private sales goin on...
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  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    I would tell you to print out the laws and show them, but stupidity in the masses trumps facts, even when they're presented in someone's face.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    That would still be straw purchasing, But if somebody was to buy a firearm for you as a gift then
    that is legal but you can not give them the money. "example" Early birthday present, Early Christmas Gift
    or just because they love you and know you always wanted one.
    But again you can NOT give them the money and have them buy it for you.

    I am not an Attorney and this is just my opinion.
    I'm still confused as how to how it would be illegal. "Straw Purchasing" only refers to buying from dealers, not private sellers.

    "In the context of United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not.

    Beginning in 1975, ATF officials apparently reached a judgment that a dealer who sells to a legitimate purchaser may nonetheless be subject to prosecution or license revocation if he knows that that individual intends to transfer the firearm to a nonresident or other unqualified purchaser. This position was never published in the Federal Register and is indeed contrary to indications which Bureau officials had given Congress, that such sales were not in violation of existing law. Rather than informing dealers of this distinction, ATF agents set out to produce mass arrests upon these "straw purchase" sale charges, sending out undercover agents to entice dealers into transfers of this type.

    In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on Form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no, by checking the appropriate box in ink. However, purchase of a firearm as a bona fide gift for someone who can legally own such a firearm is permitted."

    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    come to palmetto or tampa...there's always private sales goin on...
    I'll have to check that out. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I would tell you to print out the laws and show them, but stupidity in the masses trumps facts, even when they're presented in someone's face.
    There lies the problem. Haha.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Most sellers are not private. Still worth going. Great show in Miami every time.

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