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Thread: Encounter with Sheriffs Dept. on I 10 Stop

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    Encounter with Sheriffs Dept. on I 10 Stop

    Im from MS and hold a CCW from MS.
    I was driving down I10 in my shiny Red Corvette and doing a little over the limit. There were a lot of officers in an area but not a road block. I was clocked evidently as I was pulled over a few moments later. Officer came to the passenger side of the vehicle and asks for the normal Documents. As My father sat in the passenger side (also carrying concealed) I produced the Documents requested along with my CCW from MS. The officer asked if I was carrying at the time and I answered "yes sir" He politely asked what I was carrying and I told him I had a 1911 45 on my back and my father had a 40cal on his. The officer said ok, just keep you hands on the wheel and Ill just be a minute. He returned to his car and run my info. Upon return to the car he handed my documents to my dad and asked if I knew the laws for AL while travelling with a MS CCW, I replied "yes sir" and he said ok, Here is a warning for speeding, Have a nice trip. Kinda boring I know but it was good not to get a speeding ticket

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Sounds like the encounter went exactly as it should. Are you required to notify or did you do it out of courtesy?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    In Alabama, no notification is required.

    The officer may take is as a sign of respect to voluntarily tell him. I think this officer did.

    However, I won't notify. Some officers don't like ordinary citizens carrying and will not react well.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    In Alabama, no notification is required.

    The officer may take is as a sign of respect to voluntarily tell him. I think this officer did.

    However, I won't notify. Some officers don't like ordinary citizens carrying and will not react well.
    Hit the nail right on the head. Unfortunately, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    I would notify, not required in CO, but I don't think there's a downside here. If the cop doesn't like it, we will have a conversation then, and I will with his superiors later. But, not likely here. Most would appreciate it, I think--especially in COS and El Paso County.
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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    I would and have (the one time I was stopped) and got a warning for pulling out from a stop sign "a little to fast". I gave hime my license and registration along with my CCW. He asked me if I was armed and I told him yes, he thanked me for letting him know in advance of him running my license and he was relaxed about it.

    When you are stopped they can run you Plates, DL, or just name and DOB through a computer system called ILETS. It is a national database and will show all your info to include if you have a CCW. It doesn't matter what state either as I used the system when I worked at a USAF base as armed security. When a truck driver would come through the search pit to have their vehicle checked for weapons, bombs, and such another officer would run their information. We have caught a number of felons and people with warrents this way. When someone popped up with a CC license we would just ask them if they had a firearm. No big deal but if you don't tell them and they run your license (which they will) they may be upset you didn't tell them in advance. Usally if your polite and not a smart azz then they will be polite, I know not always but I play the odds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    In Alabama, no notification is required.

    The officer may take is as a sign of respect to voluntarily tell him. I think this officer did.

    However, I won't notify. Some officers don't like ordinary citizens carrying and will not react well.
    My opinion as well. It's just none of their business.

    This changes, of course, if I'm every asked to step out of the vehicle; in that case, then I'll do the Mas Ayoob routine. I've never been asked to step out however, so pretty much that's a moot point.

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    All I can say is that out here it has been my experience that advising you are armed is a good way to get a warning as opposed to a ticket. We tend to appriciate citizens who take their responsibility to protect themselves seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I would and have (the one time I was stopped) and got a warning for pulling out from a stop sign "a little to fast". I gave hime my license and registration along with my CCW. He asked me if I was armed and I told him yes, he thanked me for letting him know in advance of him running my license and he was relaxed about it.

    When you are stopped they can run you Plates, DL, or just name and DOB through a computer system called ILETS. It is a national database and will show all your info to include if you have a CCW. It doesn't matter what state either as I used the system when I worked at a USAF base as armed security. When a truck driver would come through the search pit to have their vehicle checked for weapons, bombs, and such another officer would run their information. We have caught a number of felons and people with warrents this way. When someone popped up with a CC license we would just ask them if they had a firearm. No big deal but if you don't tell them and they run your license (which they will) they may be upset you didn't tell them in advance. Usally if your polite and not a smart azz then they will be polite, I know not always but I play the odds.
    Actually it is called NLETS...and you can only get info on a CCW if the state the person is from links it to their DLs. I know of no state that links the info to vehicle registration. Just saying.

    P.S. I am a Communications Officer


    Last edited by BigTzzy; 08-24-2011 at 01:00 AM.

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    I always give the ccw if I'm stopped for any reason just to ensure no misunderstandings in the event I an asked to exit the vehicle. Not that I am stopped a lot but have never had an issue to date doing so, or a ticket for that matter I dint see the harm in the LEO knowing prior to any misunderstanding or confrontation

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigTzzy View Post
    Actually it is called NLETS...and you can only get info on a CCW if the state the person is from links it to their DLs. I know of no state that links the info to vehicle registration. Just saying.

    P.S. I am a Communications Officer


    A lot of it depends on how you look up the information in the system. If you input the full name, DOB, along with DL information you will get more information than just inputing the DL number. As you know the system is very quircky as it has to be inputed just right.

    It doesn't really matter what you call it NLETS or ILETS it is the same system, and there are different ways to retrive the information from it.

    I run out of state DL's all the time and they have fequently told me if someone had a CCW. Again I'm not overly concerned about people with CCW's as they usally follow the laws. It is the ones that don't follow the laws I worry about.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Cool

    My wife got pulled over on her motorcycle for making a wide turn at a corner last night. She gave the officer her DL and CCW with the registration and insurance card; he asked if she was carring at the time and let her go with a warning. She said he thanked her for letting him know in advance and he confirmed it isn't the CCW carriers he worries about.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Having just passed a cc law here WI newspapers are all a-twitter about how much more dangerous things will now be for police... and obviously they haven't talked with LEA/LEO in cc states, and haven't thought through the possibilities.

    Any officer who does not approach every person as potentially dangerous will have a short painful career.
    Most of the time s/he will be wrong, and that's good.
    So LEO don't have to do anything different when cc (or even OC) comes into play.

    If someone does OC, show a permit, etc., the officer can pretty much know that they're 'safe', not likely to harm the officer.

    If someone denies carrying, are they really a sheep (honestly saying they're unarmed, no danger)
    or a wolf (lying, armed, dangerous, willing to shoot a cop)?
    So assuming everyone is armed is the safer way to operate.

    That being said, our new WI law says if we're cc we have to show a permit (if the officer has RAS).
    Considering the various problems with OC, I'm anticipating lots of over-reaction, until officers understand that the part of the law saying they can't use excessive force on someone b/c they have a permit has teeth to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    A lot of it depends on how you look up the information in the system. If you input the full name, DOB, along with DL information you will get more information than just inputing the DL number. As you know the system is very quircky as it has to be inputed just right.

    It doesn't really matter what you call it NLETS or ILETS it is the same system, and there are different ways to retrive the information from it.

    I run out of state DL's all the time and they have fequently told me if someone had a CCW. Again I'm not overly concerned about people with CCW's as they usally follow the laws. It is the ones that don't follow the laws I worry about.
    I 100% guarantee you will not get notified of an Alabama (which is where this thread is posted) resident holding a permit. I can also make that guarantee about a Georgia resident.

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    I don't know the hows or the whys in Georgia, but in Alabama the pistol permits are handled by individual county sheriffs' offices and they are specifically not public record. These two facts combined almost guarantees that the information will not come up in any database, no matter how much information you type into it.

    I haven't been pulled over since I started carrying a gun, but since I keep it wedged between the bench seats where I used to keep my bowie knife I don't see notification being the problem.

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Any officer who does not approach every person as potentially dangerous will have a short painful career.
    Most of the time s/he will be wrong, and that's good.
    I'd rather if they approached every person as a citizen with rights to be respected and defended. Of course every person is "potentially dangerous"; so is every animal, and every tool, and every motor vehicle. The problem is that they approach people as "dangerous until proven otherwise," which is the mindset of military occupation and is currently being experienced by our unfortunate servicemen and women overseas.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    I 100% guarantee you will not get notified of an Alabama (which is where this thread is posted) resident holding a permit. I can also make that guarantee about a Georgia resident.
    I can't argue with you about Alabama since I can't remember the last time I had someone make a delievery with a Alabama license. I will have to pay attention and keep on the lookout for one next time we get a truck from there.

    I do know that most of the other states pop up with the information, more information than you want or need sometimes. We are looking for current DL, Registration, warrents, ect. We don't really care how many speeding tickets you had but that all comes up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iroc4life View Post
    asked if I knew the laws for AL while travelling with a MS CCW
    Wait, since MS and AL are reciprocal, how is the law any different for someone with an AL resident permit? From what i understand, there aren't any special conditions for carrying in your vehicle, with a permit, just as it is in MS. Without a permit, that's a different story....I'm just wondering what was meant by that statement?

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    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
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    The states are reciprocal but there are minor differences. In Alabama, you MUST HAVE a license to carry a pistol in a vehicle even if it is NOT concealed. You can not carry a pistol, openly or concealed, within 1000 ft of a public demonstration (although this has yet to be challenged). A MS license does not allow a MS resident to carry a pistol in AL gun-free zones like schools. I believe that is what the officer was asking about.
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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    So here's the synopsis:

    In some states you have to declare
    Some states declare if you're on foot or in the car
    Some states you must declare whether carrying or not (that you have a permit, I suppose), and LEO can lie or prevent you from declaring then trump up charges if they wish.
    Some states you must declare if permitted and you are carrying
    Some states you don't have to declare but the LEOs don't know and fuss if you do if you don't.
    Some states you don't declare, can't carry loaded, some states unloaded and locked or locked separately.

    YET nobody really has a problem with CC permit holders, who seem to be able to jump through any of their stupid hoops, not shoot the LEO, not get shot BY the LEO with their own gun while being disarmed. Some states you have to help the LEO get the HG out of the holster so they can run an e-check, and then the serial and practice their lying about why they're doing an e-check.

    ISTM you have to train and be in shape just to deal with the BS.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Any officer who does not approach every person as potentially dangerous will have a short painful career.
    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack
    I'd rather if they approached every person as a citizen with rights to be respected and defended.
    The two are not mutually exclusive.
    As an example, realizing that drivers have shot officers, officers approach a car they've pulled over with caution, as much as possible staying in positions that the driver (or passenger) would have a harder time shooting them.
    IMO, that's entirely reasonable.
    In order to pull that car over, they still have to have RAS, & still can't search the car without RAS (or a warrant or permission), thereby respecting the rights of the citizen.

    The problem is that they approach people as "dangerous until proven otherwise," which is the mindset of military occupation
    I disagree.
    I think it's reasonable to realize that, as you say, anything & anyone can be dangerous, & until an officer looks over the situation I see nothing wrong with them being more aware (not the best wording... heightened alert?). See example above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Replace "officer' with citizen. All sorts of folks get in a tizzy when this is proposed. The rub is we have no ability to defend ourselves, we must suck up the trampling and rely on the courts to gain redress after the fact. The Indiana Supreme Court is a indication of things to come.
    The two situations are not analogous. The officer is much more likely than the citizen to someday be in the situation where a person with whom he interacts will be an armed criminal sometime during is lifetime. To be ready for such a moment, he needs to be wary of all interactions.

    As someone else pointed out, that heightened state of readiness does not mean that he cannot be respectful of the person or of that person's rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZkopper View Post
    All I can say is that out here it has been my experience that advising you are armed is a good way to get a warning as opposed to a ticket. We tend to appriciate citizens who take their responsibility to protect themselves seriously.
    This goes both ways. The public knowing you will not ask nor force to "hold" my weapon until the stop is over is a good way for you to be advised that I am armed. Problem is this doesn't apply to just you. It applies to everyone in your line of work so spread the word and when it becomes known no officer will ask for our weapons in the name of "officer safety" then we will all start telling you we are armed.

    On a side note, I hope you realise what you just said in your post I quoted is very unethical if not illegal being it's at least unethical for you base whether or not to issue a ticket on whether or not someone told the they are armed prior to your asking or it coming back upon running their information. This has absolutely no bearing on whether they "earned" their taffic violation or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    A lot of it depends on how you look up the information in the system. If you input the full name, DOB, along with DL information you will get more information than just inputing the DL number. As you know the system is very quircky as it has to be inputed just right.

    It doesn't really matter what you call it NLETS or ILETS it is the same system, and there are different ways to retrive the information from it.

    I run out of state DL's all the time and they have fequently told me if someone had a CCW. Again I'm not overly concerned about people with CCW's as they usally follow the laws. It is the ones that don't follow the laws I worry about.
    In AL it's illegal for permit holder info (who has one) to be available, I believe, to anybody except the people in the sheriff's office. I know for a fact it's illegal for that info to be in any database available for other agencies to look up. That's one reason why some state do not have reciprocity with AL because we don't have that info available to them without them calling the sheriff's office and asking if one they've come across is still valid.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALOC1911 View Post
    In AL it's illegal for permit holder info (who has one) to be available, I believe, to anybody except the people in the sheriff's office. I know for a fact it's illegal for that info to be in any database available for other agencies to look up. That's one reason why some state do not have reciprocity with AL because we don't have that info available to them without them calling the sheriff's office and asking if one they've come across is still valid.
    Keep telling yourself that. This is a National or Interstate database that is used by all law enforcement agencies be them local or federal. It is illegal and I have seen people fired for looking up people they had no need to look up. It is tracked much like medical records and need to know. I could look someone up but if I don't have a need to know I could and should be fired. You would be suprised what information is in the ILETS/NLETS system.

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