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Thread: Legal advice on this.

  1. #1
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    Legal advice on this.

    Here is my company policy on weapons, this is the entire chapter on it.

    WEAPONS POLICY
    All employees of (removed) and any other person coming onto the
    Company's premises are prohibited from carrying any concealed, dangerous weapon of any sort.
    An employee who has obtained a license to carry a concealed, dangerous weapon may carry
    her/his weapon while in her/his personal motor vehicle after first notifying the Director of Human
    Resources in writing of their intention of doing so,
    *but may not do so in a motor vehicle owned by
    the Company.
    Any employee with personal safety concerns (e.g. parking in a remote location, working
    alone after hours, etc.) should discuss those concerns with the Director of Human Resources.
    The Company reserves the right to grant complete or partial exemptions from this policy if the
    circumstances warrant an exemption. Any exemptions shall be at the sole discretion of the
    Company.
    Any employee violating this policy shall be subject to immediate disciplinary action, up to
    and including termination of employment.
    **

    *This seems to me to be illegal, is it?

    **It does not say anything about carrying openly.

    I don't want to get fired, but the first thing I bolded seems illegal to state, and the second does not seem to say anything about openly carrying.


    Advice?
    KY is a at will state, meaning that I can be fired at any time for any reason, or without a reason.

    I wish to carry my firearm for personal protection openly or CC once I receive my CCDW.

  2. #2
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan357 View Post
    Here is my company policy on weapons, this is the entire chapter on it.

    WEAPONS POLICY
    All employees of (removed) and any other person coming onto the
    Company's premises are prohibited from carrying any concealed, dangerous weapon of any sort.
    An employee who has obtained a license to carry a concealed, dangerous weapon may carry
    her/his weapon while in her/his personal motor vehicle after first notifying the Director of Human
    Resources in writing of their intention of doing so,
    *but may not do so in a motor vehicle owned by
    the Company.
    Any employee with personal safety concerns (e.g. parking in a remote location, working
    alone after hours, etc.) should discuss those concerns with the Director of Human Resources.
    The Company reserves the right to grant complete or partial exemptions from this policy if the
    circumstances warrant an exemption. Any exemptions shall be at the sole discretion of the
    Company.
    Any employee violating this policy shall be subject to immediate disciplinary action, up to
    and including termination of employment.
    **

    *This seems to me to be illegal, is it?

    **It does not say anything about carrying openly.

    I don't want to get fired, but the first thing I bolded seems illegal to state, and the second does not seem to say anything about openly carrying.


    Advice?
    KY is a at will state, meaning that I can be fired at any time for any reason, or without a reason.

    I wish to carry my firearm for personal protection openly or CC once I receive my CCDW.
    There are plenty of Obama's unemployed right now, so I say ask the "Director of Human Resources in writing"

  3. #3
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    Ahh, but see in Ky the law state that's no one, public or private can deny a person who can legally own and posses a firearm from having one in their car/truck.

    Regardless of having a CCDW or not.

    Now carrying at work while on the clock may be different, but denying a person who can legally carray firearm is (AFAIK) against the law in KY.

  4. #4
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Best advice: Talk to a lawyer. Most will give you the first consultation without charge.

    In the present economic conditions, I would not want to risk my job on the advice of someone on the internet.

  5. #5
    Regular Member John Canuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan357 View Post
    Here is my company policy on weapons, this is the entire chapter on it.

    WEAPONS POLICY
    All employees of (removed) and any other person coming onto the
    Company's premises are prohibited from carrying any concealed, dangerous weapon of any sort.
    An employee who has obtained a license to carry a concealed, dangerous weapon may carry
    her/his weapon while in her/his personal motor vehicle after first notifying the Director of Human
    Resources in writing of their intention of doing so,
    *but may not do so in a motor vehicle owned by
    the Company.
    Any employee with personal safety concerns (e.g. parking in a remote location, working
    alone after hours, etc.) should discuss those concerns with the Director of Human Resources.
    The Company reserves the right to grant complete or partial exemptions from this policy if the
    circumstances warrant an exemption. Any exemptions shall be at the sole discretion of the
    Company.
    Any employee violating this policy shall be subject to immediate disciplinary action, up to
    and including termination of employment.
    **

    *This seems to me to be illegal, is it?

    **It does not say anything about carrying openly.

    I don't want to get fired, but the first thing I bolded seems illegal to state, and the second does not seem to say anything about openly carrying.


    Advice?
    KY is a at will state, meaning that I can be fired at any time for any reason, or without a reason.

    I wish to carry my firearm for personal protection openly or CC once I receive my CCDW.
    How would they know you were carrying a gun inside your personal vehicle? Is their intention to search the cars of employees?

  6. #6
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    I don't know about Kentucky, but almost every place I worked in Alabama, they told me that they have the right to search any vehicle brought on to their property. I found another place to park off of their property after I started carrying. I had one supervisor that insisted he was going to search my vehicle even though it was not on company property. I told him to get a police officer and a warrant. His boss told him to shut up (literally), that he didn't know what he was talking about.

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  8. #8
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Don't worry about it, they gave you an out, check with the human resources director, and explain what and why. Sounds simpel to me.

    You notice the "progressive" verbage though don't you? You are not "personel", that is a human being,,,you are a "resource" like gas, water and electricty, so be ready to be treated as such.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan357 View Post
    Here is my company policy on weapons, this is the entire chapter on it.

    WEAPONS POLICY
    All employees of (removed) and any other person coming onto the
    Company's premises are prohibited from carrying any concealed, dangerous weapon of any sort.
    An employee who has obtained a license to carry a concealed, dangerous weapon may carry
    her/his weapon while in her/his personal motor vehicle after first notifying the Director of Human
    Resources in writing of their intention of doing so,
    *but may not do so in a motor vehicle owned by
    the Company.
    The courts have ruled concerning your legal right to protect yourself while driving your own vehicle, even while on company time. In a nutshell, you DO NOT have to notify HR at all.

    If you're parking on company property, consider parking off company property.

    If you're driving their vehicle, consider driving your own.

    Any employee with personal safety concerns (e.g. parking in a remote location, working
    alone after hours, etc.) should discuss those concerns with the Director of Human Resources.
    The Company reserves the right to grant complete or partial exemptions from this policy if the
    circumstances warrant an exemption. Any exemptions shall be at the sole discretion of the
    Company.
    The "Company" is grossly overstepping the bounds of its authority. They only have jurisdiction over you door-to-door, and that's their front door, not yours.

    Any employee violating this policy shall be subject to immediate disciplinary action, up to
    and including termination of employment.
    **

    *This seems to me to be illegal, is it?
    Actually, it's not illegal at all. The moment they actually terminated someone's employment for, say, carrying a firearm to work in their own private vehicle while parking off company property, then that would be illegal.

    **It does not say anything about carrying openly.

    I don't want to get fired, but the first thing I bolded seems illegal to state, and the second does not seem to say anything about openly carrying.
    My advice is that you might win the letter of the law because they failed, almost certainly due to an oversight, to mention OC, but you would loose your job and face a massive uphill legal battle.

    KY is a at will state, meaning that I can be fired at any time for any reason, or without a reason.
    Sounds like Colorado's tenancy laws.

    I wish to carry my firearm for personal protection openly or CC once I receive my CCDW.
    As do we all.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  10. #10
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    Sorry for the double post, too many people to respond to.





    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Best advice: Talk to a lawyer. Most will give you the first consultation without charge.

    In the present economic conditions, I would not want to risk my job on the advice of someone on the internet.
    I was thinking of that myself to be honest. Just to get a feel for the situation because I really can not afford to loose my job seeing as I am getting married in 10 days.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Canuck View Post
    How would they know you were carrying a gun inside your personal vehicle? Is their intention to search the cars of employees?
    I believe so, a coworker was threatened with a car search (AFAIK its not legal w/o a warrant) because they suspected that he had a firearm.
    He told them if they get a warrant they are welcome, other wise his truck was off limits.

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Don't worry about it, they gave you an out, check with the human resources director, and explain what and why. Sounds simpel to me.

    You notice the "progressive" verbage though don't you? You are not "personel", that is a human being,,,you are a "resource" like gas, water and electricty, so be ready to be treated as such.
    I also thought about talking to her and getting a feel for the situation, see what she says and how things go.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm62383 View Post
    Thats what I was thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    The courts have ruled concerning your legal right to protect yourself while driving your own vehicle, even while on company time. In a nutshell, you DO NOT have to notify HR at all.
    Thats what I thought.

    If you're parking on company property, consider parking off company property.
    I may have to consider that.
    If you're driving their vehicle, consider driving your own.
    Its my personal truck, paid for and operated by me.







    Actually, it's not illegal at all. The moment they actually terminated someone's employment for, say, carrying a firearm to work in their own private vehicle while parking off company property, then that would be illegal.
    Noted, thanks!


    My advice is that you might win the letter of the law because they failed, almost certainly due to an oversight, to mention OC, but you would loose your job and face a massive uphill legal battle.
    Nothing something I can afford to do.

    What I may do for now, is keep on having it in the truck and just stay quiet on the matter.
    Because I do have legal grounds to stand on as far as keeping it in my truck.
    Once I get my CCDW I may just CC it, just keep it quiet.

    If I can walk through walmart openly carrying and no one notices I doubt anyone would notice my CC under the arm.
    Last edited by Titan357; 08-24-2011 at 07:36 AM.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan357 View Post
    <snip>
    KY is a at will state, meaning that I can be fired at any time for any reason, or without a reason.
    <snip>
    Actually, I was told by my HR director that 49 of the 50 states are "at will". The exception is a midwestern state - one of the Ms and I can never remember which. Wikipedia says there are 7 that are not, but their data is 10 years out of date. "With or without a reason" is a slight exaggeration; they cannot fire you solely for being a member of a protected class (based on gender, national origin, age, etc.), but if they want to select one of those reasons, it would not be that difficult to simply put you in violation of another regulation for which they'd be within their rights.

    I still question those who claim to retain the "right" to search employees' automobiles absent reasonable suspicion of criminal intent. I would love to see that challenged in court.

  13. #13
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Well, Oklahoma put that issue to rest very decisivly with legislation

    As for talking to HR, Titan357, I think that is the biggest crap-shoot you are contemplating. Once you talk to them, you will probably be under close scrutiny for any deviation from company policy. Basically, you will be giving them a heads up that you are a carrier.

    Also, does this guy still work there? Talked to him?

    I believe so, a coworker was threatened with a car search (AFAIK its not legal w/o a warrant) because they suspected that he had a firearm.
    He told them if they get a warrant they are welcome, other wise his truck was off limits.
    Like my dad said about concealed carry ... the operative premise is it is concealed and no one is to know.

    Personally, if you CC with or without company approval, you will at some time in the future be put in a situation in which the concealed weapon will be seen by someone. If you are going to conceal, I would suggest an ankle holster rather than a shoulder rig or iwb/owb holster.

    I don't know how big/small you are, but I am a small framed person and carry 2 small pistols and there are times when printing or accidental exposure of the belt holster is simply unavoidable. In this case, prepare for the worst and hope for the best just doesn't seem to work.
    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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