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Thread: Should I ask HR to clarify?

  1. #1
    Regular Member 64Impala's Avatar
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    Should I ask HR to clarify?

    Hi Guys -

    the company I work for just posted a "no firearms" sign at the employee entrance to the building. I'm assuming they are at all entrances, but haven't confirmed. The sign specifically reads.

    "No firearms or weapons allowed on this property"

    Now I've read the published bill, and as I understand, they can prevent firearms in the building, but NOT in the parking lot in my vehicle. The company is a privately held business (not that it matters). The sign is somewhat ambiguous, should I ask for clarification from HR or should I adopt the "don't ask, don't tell policy", knowing how the law is written.

    I'm leaning towards just keeping my mouth shut. What say you all?

    Thanks!
    Joe
    Brooklyn, WI
    supporting Member #123

  2. #2
    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
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    Hey Joe, Were it me I just keep it quiet with the knowledge that keeping a handgun in my car while on their property is covered and protected under Act 35.
    If you feel comfortable telling the HR person that the sign does not follow the new law then do so.
    Jim Burgess
    NRA Lifetime

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Their policy is unenforceable after Nov 1. I'd also recheck the employee handbook to see what the weapons policy is (yes, even knives). I work in IT and I need a knife daily to open boxes. It is a good thing the company I work for does not have a weapons policy.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    If they added the following, then they would be OK.

    "Firearms and weapons are allowed in a locked vehicle".

    I would just tell other employees about it and it several brought it to the attention of HR, then there could be no discriminting singling out.

  5. #5
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    I'd just comply with the law and not worry too much what their sign says. Sure they can prohibit if they want on their property, although not a weapon parked in the company's parking lot. But I wouldn't expect businesses to post lengthy signs going into every detail of the law. If you've got a gun you ought to be familiar with all the applicable laws and follow them, then you have nothing to worry about. I wouldn't even draw attention to the fact that there could be legally stored weapons in vehicles parked on the company property. If the wording of their sign has no real consequences to you, don't concern yourself with it.
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  6. #6
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64Impala View Post
    the company I work for just posted a "no firearms" sign at the employee entrance to the building. ..... The sign specifically reads.

    "No firearms or weapons allowed on this property"...
    Don't ask... Don't tell... Unless a published sign or policy explicitly prohibits firearms in your vehicles while in the parking lot (mine currently does), I would not make any noise at this time. Also, unless you have signed something agreeing to a policy of no firearms in the parking lot in a locked vehicle I would not make any noise at this time.
    It may be wise to wait until November 1st or even better wait until you have a permit in hand to say something should you choose to do so.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 08-24-2011 at 02:00 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Their policy is unenforceable after Nov 1. I'd also recheck the employee handbook to see what the weapons policy is .....
    It is still enforceable after November 1st for long guns even if you are a permittee or out of state permittee and for handguns if you are not a permittee or an out of state permittee. It is also enforceable for any weapon which your permit does not explicitly authorize you to carry concealed.
    No Wisconsin resident will be able to have a handgun in their vehicle should your company prohibit it until you have a WI resident permit in hand.

  8. #8
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I belive this is the proper situation to apply "don't ask, don't tell".
    Don't say a word about firearms, except possibly via a typed note in the suggestion box, pointing out that the company gave up its protection from liability (w/ a copy of the law).
    So when something bad happens, get out of the building & don't go back in until after the police say it's OK.

    They can prohibit employees from carrying in the building, but not from storing in their cars.
    Definitely keep your pistol locked in the car (got a lock box w/ a cable?),
    and it's up to your conscience whether or not to cc in the building.
    There's going to be a lot of that going around.

    I really hate being forced to make that choice.
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  9. #9
    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    It is still enforceable after November 1st for long guns even if you are a permittee or out of state permittee and for handguns if you are not a permittee or an out of state permittee. It is also enforceable for any weapon which your permit does not explicitly authorize you to carry concealed.
    No Wisconsin resident will be able to have a handgun in their vehicle should your company prohibit it until you have a WI resident permit in hand.
    I agree with every part but what you say about long guns.
    175.60 (15m)(b) An employer may not prohibit a licensee or an out−of−state licensee, as a condition of employment, from carrying a concealed weapon, a particular type of concealed weapon, or ammunition or from storing a weapon, a particular type of weapon, or ammunition in the licensee’s or out−of−state licensee’s own motor vehicle, regardless of whether the motor vehicle is used in the course of employment or whether the motor vehicle is driven or parked on property used by the employer.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64Impala View Post
    Hi Guys -

    the company I work for just posted a "no firearms" sign at the employee entrance to the building. I'm assuming they are at all entrances, but haven't confirmed. The sign specifically reads.

    "No firearms or weapons allowed on this property"

    Now I've read the published bill, and as I understand, they can prevent firearms in the building, but NOT in the parking lot in my vehicle. The company is a privately held business (not that it matters). The sign is somewhat ambiguous, should I ask for clarification from HR or should I adopt the "don't ask, don't tell policy", knowing how the law is written.

    I'm leaning towards just keeping my mouth shut. What say you all?

    Thanks!
    64Impala, if they've posted the building but not the entry to the parking lot, and have no other employee policy explicitly forbidding carry outside of the building, your employer may be intentionally limiting the prohibition to the building. In your shoes, I'd assume rather than ask.

    Act 35's provisions for restricting carry on private property are a train wreck, IMHO. I foresee a LOT of confusion.

    EMPLOYEES
    • Employers don't have to post signs to restrict employee carry. If your employer has both a written policy and sign, assume that the more restrictive/explicit of the two applies.
    • An employer can't take action against an employee who is a licensee for carrying/storing a "weapon" in the employee's own vehicle. A "weapon" includes a handgun, knife other than a switchblade, electric weapon or billy club. There's no vehicle exemption for employees who don't have CCPs, and no vehicle exemption for long guns.


    NON-EMPLOYEES
    • Signs are required.
    • The posted prohibition won't apply to a non-employee storing/carrying a firearm in a vehicle. The non-employee doesn't have to be a licensee. "Firearm" includes handguns and long guns, but not knives, electric weapons or billy clubs.


    I think it would take a small billboard to post all the nuances. It's not illegal for an employer to fail to fully notify you of your carry rights. It would be illegal, though, for an employer to sanction an employee who was entitled to a vehicle exemption, or for law enforcement to bring trespass charges against a non-employee who was entitled to an exemption.

    [Admittedly Imperfect] Analogy: It's legal to proceed through a stoplight against the red light if the signal is failing to change, but no one's obligated to post signs at every stoplight alerting you that you have the right to do so.
    Last edited by LaBomba; 08-24-2011 at 08:23 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    I agree with every part but what you say about long guns.
    Weapon is defined. Long gun does not fit the definition..... "Type of weapon".. would be allowing electric weapons but not handguns or allowing knives but not handguns, billy clubs or electric weapons.

    175.60 License to carry a concealed weapon.
    (1) DEFINITIONS. In this section:
    (j) “Weapon” means a handgun, an electric weapon,
    as defined in s. 941.295 (1c) (a), a knife other than a
    switchblade knife under s. 941.24, or a billy club.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 08-24-2011 at 09:02 PM.

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