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Thread: Vote "No" to keep the American Flag

  1. #1
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Vote "No" to keep the American Flag

    Go to FOX and vote NO on banning the American flag in America VOTE !!! This is disgusting, to put it mildly. Your voice needs to be heard.
    This is just sickening. Only 76.15% have voted on the FOX poll to NOT ban the flag in school and something like 18.0% voted YES, to ban it. What is going on in this country??

    Fox is running a poll about whether the flag should be banned in schools in order not to inflame Hispanic students. The poll is being sandbagged by SEIU and we should mount a counter action if you agree with me that the flag should be taken down for no one.

    Moveon.org, funded by George Soros, Organizing for America , and SEIU, "Service Employee International UNION", have been twittering today to go to Fox Poll and vote to BAN the American Flag and right now it is still working (18%).

    It's time to SHOW THEM WHAT TRUE PATRIOTS BELIEVE!!!

    GO HERE NOW:
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/...anned-america/
    VOTE.........and then pass it along!
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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Isn't this like a year old?
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    Where's the pole to vote on banning hispanic students that have a problem with the American flag? Every vote should come with a free one way ticket on a bus back to Mexico.

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    the poll was posted in may 2010. Old news.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Good grief, not only is this old news, but from FOX news. Let's get down to it, FOX is nothing more than a right-wing propaganda machine that is interested in offering this illusion that America is being taken over by some foreign 'thing'. Really, let's be adults about this. There are some individuals, apparently 18% who watch FOX news, that do not like the American flag in schools.

    Personally, I was grew up with my right hand over heart every morning in school...now my kids do it once a week. Should the American Flag be in schools, yes. Are we a less Nationalistic society, apparently we are. Is that a bad thing, depends.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Good grief, not only is this old news, but from FOX news. Let's get down to it, FOX is nothing more than a right-wing propaganda machine that is interested in offering this illusion that America is being taken over by some foreign 'thing'. Really, let's be adults about this.
    As an adult, a bright, successful, and well-educated one at that, and one not given to conspiracy theories, it is my firm opinion that America is being taken over by some foreign "thing," commonly referred to throughout the ages as "money and power." America is not, however, an exception. If anything, it's the norm.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    As an adult, a bright, successful, and well-educated one at that, and one not given to conspiracy theories, it is my firm opinion that America is being taken over by some foreign "thing," commonly referred to throughout the ages as "money and power." America is not, however, an exception. If anything, it's the norm.
    Thank you. It is always a treat to agree with a person from time to time. I appreciate your response.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    As an adult, a bright, successful, and well-educated one at that, and one not given to conspiracy theories, it is my firm opinion that America is being taken over by some foreign "thing," commonly referred to throughout the ages as "money and power." America is not, however, an exception. If anything, it's the norm.
    we are not being taken over by "money and power". Its called entropy, it happens to every system whether its a large collection of hydrogen, a person, a vehicle fleet, a company, or a republic.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    we are not being taken over by "money and power". Its called entropy, it happens to every system whether its a large collection of hydrogen, a person, a vehicle fleet, a company, or a republic.
    We are being taken over by "money and power," not thermodynamics. I get the corrolation that you are making, but what applies in thermodynamics, and what applies in socio-economic structures are, well, you know, LOL, I get it, and I agree. It is an interresting, and intriguing relationship that you have offerred-up. I should point out that you basically agreed with Since, but merely compared thermodynamics to socio-economic structures.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 08-28-2011 at 02:47 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    We are being taken over by "money and power," not thermodynamics. I get the corrolation that you are making, but what applies in thermodynamics, and what applies in socio-economic structures are, well, you know, LOL, I get it, and I agree. It is an interresting, and intriguing relationship that you have offerred-up. I should point out that you basically agreed with Since, but merely compared thermodynamics to socio-economic structures.
    Its an important distinction. "money and power" imply moral problems and other silliness. Entropy helps to see the problem for what it is. Maybe I put things in terms of science and engineering because that's what I've been trained in, but then on the other hand science and engineering is what all but idiots use to define and model the universe. Or do you think creationism and that sort of emotional bs has merit. Human society is simply a large enough and complex enough system of systems to render application of science and engineering principles difficult to calculate; remember though the most fundamental principles apply absolutely. It doesn't matter if it is a human societal construct or plant, physics and science applies; its just modeling it that can be difficult.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    Its an important distinction. "money and power" imply moral problems and other silliness. Entropy helps to see the problem for what it is. Maybe I put things in terms of science and engineering because that's what I've been trained in, but then on the other hand science and engineering is what all but idiots use to define and model the universe. Or do you think creationism and that sort of emotional bs has merit. Human society is simply a large enough and complex enough system of systems to render application of science and engineering principles difficult to calculate; remember though the most fundamental principles apply absolutely. It doesn't matter if it is a human societal construct or plant, physics and science applies; its just modeling it that can be difficult.
    How Stoic of you.

    Let's see here, I have to choose between Science, and Creationism. That's a hard one! I will take Science. Creationism should be left where it belongs, the Barns & Noble book section, next to Harry Potter.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    How Stoic of you.

    Let's see here, I have to choose between Science, and Creationism. That's a hard one! I will take Science. Creationism should be left where it belongs, the Barns & Noble book section, next to Harry Potter.
    I will take creationism. I believe that science has done many great things, but last time I went out and took a walk in either San Diego, Minneapolis, Chicago or Charlotte, I cant help but find it so impossible that everything we have and are have come just by some random act of things exploding and evolving. I believe in a divine creation, because I am so complex, and if it were all science, why would doctors and scientists not have all of the diseases figured out by now? We still dont fully understand our own bodies and world, how could we possibly explain the universe? Call it a fairy tale call it BS or whatever, but I believe that someone far bigger and better than I molded me and created me in His image. Besides can someone tell me why evolution stopped? monkeys are giving birth to half humans?


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    Not to agitate things but; I'll take the best approach, and take a little from both. The intellect of science, its reason, and methods. And the bonds that creationism/religion inspire. While rejecting both, and neither at the same time :P
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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Reject Creationism all you want, but there are still many cases of divine intervention that cannot be explained by science alone.

    For example, the research being done into the power of prayer. First it was acknowledged that prayer had an impact on recovery time of surgical patients. Then, someone said, "Oh, it wasn't the prayer per se, it was that the subject believed, so it was the power of his own mind."

    Next scientific study was a double blind in which the names of patients in IIRC even numbered rooms had a prayer circle pray for them without the patient, the staff, or the family knowing and there was still a marked increase in healing and lesser need for pain medication.

    I believe that this nation has had multiple incidents of divine intervention at critical times ... for those of us who 'believe,' there are points in our history as a nation that if things had gone 'the other way,' our nation would be a substantially different place. The 'funny' thing about divine intervention is that it can come through an individual's effectiveness rather than an actual miracle.

    For those who do not 'believe' there is nothing I can say that will enlighten you until you experience it for yourself.

    Personally, I have felt the hand of God in my life on more than one occassion, even at times when I was 'fallen away.'
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    oh my, the ignorant have come out in force... I'd ask for some evidence to back up the claim that the Giant Space Spaghetti Monster created living things, but experience has shown this to be a waste of time. Just to be extra nice I'll offer up some evidence of evolution being the mechanism: domestic breeds of plants and animals. Over time humans have created selection pressures for a multitude of traits and shown it is not a puff of smoke and divine intervention that changes genetics but inheritance of genes and that by creating a selection pressure large changes in a breed can be induced.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I have to choose between Science, and Creationism. That's a hard one! I will take Science. Creationism should be left where it belongs, the Barns & Noble book section, next to Harry Potter.
    I could see how one could compare and contrast Creationism and Evolution of Man. But SCIENCE and CREATIONISM!? TROLOLOLOLOLOL


    I have to choose between AR15s and Kittens. That's a hard one! I will take AR15s.
    ^ See how that didn't make sense? That's what you did.



    For the record, the theory of man evolving is still a theory. It is hard to bash another theory when you're standing on one yourself. Well....it's easy if you're ignorant.
    Last edited by Schlitz; 08-30-2011 at 05:09 PM.
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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I could see how one could compare and contrast Creationism and Evolution of Man. But SCIENCE and CREATIONISM!? TROLOLOLOLOLOL


    I have to choose between AR15s and Kittens. That's a hard one! I will take AR15s.
    ^ See how that didn't make sense? That's what you did.



    For the record, the theory of man evolving is still a theory. It is hard to bash another theory when you're standing on one yourself. Well....it's easy if you're ignorant.
    It is apparent that you missed the point, and why I posted that I choose one over the other. Creationism is a rejection of what Science is discovering, that evolution does occur, and that yes, the Earth is older than 6,000 years (Creationist belief). Creationism runs counter to what science has to-date discovered about the Earth, hell, the Universe.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I have to choose between AR15s and Kittens. That's a hard one! I will take AR15s.
    Not I. Kittens pack far more energy at 3,200 fps than does the .223.


    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    Reject Creationism all you want, but there are still many cases of divine intervention that cannot be explained by science alone.

    ...

    Personally, I have felt the hand of God in my life on more than one occassion, even at times when I was 'fallen away.'
    Same here.

    I am, by nature, a scientist. It's just how I approach life, particularly complicated situations involving math, physics, engineering, biology, chemistry, ecology, and even psychology. If it doesn't pass muster using the hard and fast rules founded on the scientific method, it's a no-go.

    On the other hand, I am, by faith, a Christian. It, too, is just how I approach life, particularly complicated situations involving people, "coincidence," and issues that have nothing to do with science.

    Some people see these two positions as mutually exclusive, and claim I must be half-n-half. Nope! I am both fully a scientist as well as fully a Christian. I do admit some tenets of belief in either camp are contrary to some tenets of belief in the other camp, but this forum is not the proper place to dive into that argument.

    We absolutely should keep the American Flag, just as we should keep our National Anthem.
    Last edited by since9; 08-30-2011 at 08:12 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    argument.

    We absolutely should keep the American Flag, just as we should keep our National Anthem.
    We should keep both...unless the reference "GOD" is changed to 'right-wing-nut-fringe-fundamentalist-christian'. For a number of reasons, one being, I think that the national Anthem would not sound right with the latter taking the place of the former.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Creationism is a rejection of what Science is discovering.
    Creationism is a rejection of a theory made by man. Just because a man calls himself a "scientist" does not mean that his opinions and agendas are fact. With an open mind I went into reading up on the evolution of man vs creationism and their arguments against each other. All I found was a bunch of men just like you and I digging up old fossils and claiming they had evidence to prove man evolved. My favorite is when they dug up a bone identical to a modern day human but they dated it back millions of years. Instead of looking at the facts that made their theory look bad they renamed it. According to them it would be impossible for a modern day human to look the same back then. So take note, this is not SCIENCE, this is men using facts only when they are beificial to their man made theory and bending facts when they are not.

    Facts don't match up with your man made theory? RENAME IT BECAUSE IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BE WRONG. (I believe the bone was called KP271, but don't quote me on that)

    So perhaps you don't believe in CREATIONISM as it is told by any specific religion, but to say it is wrong just because it doesn't match up with a man made theory you believe in is just close minded.
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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    We should keep both...unless the reference "GOD" is changed to 'right-wing-nut-fringe-fundamentalist-christian'. For a number of reasons, one being, I think that the national Anthem would not sound right with the latter taking the place of the former.
    You obviously have something aginst the idea of something being bigger than you which explains your bashing of creationism. You should take note that the simple title of "God" doesn't link to any specific religion. But your dislike for christianity seems to have closed your mind.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  22. #22
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    oh my, the ignorant have come out in force... I'd ask for some evidence to back up the claim that the Giant Space Spaghetti Monster created living things, but experience has shown this to be a waste of time. Just to be extra nice I'll offer up some evidence of evolution being the mechanism: domestic breeds of plants and animals. Over time humans have created selection pressures for a multitude of traits and shown it is not a puff of smoke and divine intervention that changes genetics but inheritance of genes and that by creating a selection pressure large changes in a breed can be induced.
    You can't be calling me ignorant, and I didn't deny evolution at all ... just have questions about some points where an outcome seemed to go differently than the expected outcome. I choose to believe it was divine intervention when there is no evidence to the contrary.

    I hope that you never need the power of prayer, but if you do, I hope you get it and that you receive the benefit of some kind soul taking the time to pray for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim12232 View Post
    I will take creationism. I believe that science has done many great things, but last time I went out and took a walk in either San Diego, Minneapolis, Chicago or Charlotte, I cant help but find it so impossible that everything we have and are have come just by some random act of things exploding and evolving. I believe in a divine creation, because I am so complex, and if it were all science, why would doctors and scientists not have all of the diseases figured out by now? We still dont fully understand our own bodies and world, how could we possibly explain the universe? Call it a fairy tale call it BS or whatever, but I believe that someone far bigger and better than I molded me and created me in His image. Besides can someone tell me why evolution stopped? monkeys are giving birth to half humans?


    Think with Faith.
    We have come a long way, there is an engineered virus that attacks cancer cells now: http://www.zmescience.com/medicine/a...irus-31082011/ Of course we will never have a cure for everything because like every other organism, bacteria/virus evolve. As for our bodies and those of other organisms if "intelligently designed" why are there vestigial structures: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section2.html. Also why the 60+ million year gap between dinosaurs and humans?. If you would take a minute to actually research evolution you would find out that monkeys do not turn into humans but we do share a common ~4 million year old ancestor with several African apes; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus_afarensis
    Found transitional fossils: http://www.encognitive.com/node/10792


    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    Reject Creationism all you want, but there are still many cases of divine intervention that cannot be explained by science alone.

    For example, the research being done into the power of prayer. First it was acknowledged that prayer had an impact on recovery time of surgical patients. Then, someone said, "Oh, it wasn't the prayer per se, it was that the subject believed, so it was the power of his own mind."

    Next scientific study was a double blind in which the names of patients in IIRC even numbered rooms had a prayer circle pray for them without the patient, the staff, or the family knowing and there was still a marked increase in healing and lesser need for pain medication.
    '
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0403133554.htm
    http://www.dukehealth.org/health_library/news/9136

    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I could see how one could compare and contrast Creationism and Evolution of Man. But SCIENCE and CREATIONISM!? TROLOLOLOLOLOL

    I have to choose between AR15s and Kittens. That's a hard one! I will take AR15s.
    ^ See how that didn't make sense? That's what you did.

    For the record, the theory of man evolving is still a theory. It is hard to bash another theory when you're standing on one yourself. Well....it's easy if you're ignorant.
    Something not proven is called a hypothesis, a theory is a thoroughly tested explanation for a set of observable and testable facts.. The theory of evolution is fact just like the theory of relativity (gravity).
    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. — Carl Sagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I could see how one could compare and contrast Creationism and Evolution of Man. But SCIENCE and CREATIONISM!? TROLOLOLOLOLOL


    I have to choose between AR15s and Kittens. That's a hard one! I will take AR15s.
    ^ See how that didn't make sense? That's what you did.



    For the record, the theory of man evolving is still a theory. It is hard to bash another theory when you're standing on one yourself. Well....it's easy if you're ignorant.
    Theory (via the OED): a scheme or system of ideas or statements held as an explanation of a group of facts or phenomena; a hypothesis that has been confirmed or established by observation or experiment, and is propounded or accepted as accounting for the known facts; a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed.
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  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    A hypothesis that has been "confirmed?"

    Theory: the·o·ry Noun/ˈTHēərē/1. A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained: "Darwin's theory of evolution".


    If you would take a minute to actually research evolution you would find out that monkeys do not turn into humans but we do share a common ~4 million year old ancestor with several African apes
    Stated as if it was a fact. I lol'd. If you would take a few weeks to actually research the theory, or "hypothesis" of man evolving, you would find out that almost all the research these "scientists" do is leaned extremely in favor of them proving their man made IDEA right. Anything that proves it wrong is discarded or warped backwards to make it supporting evidence. (See KP271)
    Last edited by Schlitz; 09-01-2011 at 08:32 AM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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