Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Arizonan with permit - Casino question...

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    316

    Arizonan with permit - Casino question...

    I was looking at a possible business trip into Detroit in the near future and trying to determine the legality of carry. Being work related, OC isn't gonna happen, but my AZ permit is apparently good to go in Michigan.

    The problem I've run into is that I can't get a totally clear answer on the line between a hotel and a casino. The issue is that the hotel the company intends to put everyone in is also a casino (Motor City Casino Hotel, specifically.) We'll be using the meeting facilities, and our people will be staying in the hotel. I have zero interest or need to so much as look at any of the slot machines or anything else casino-related (living so close to Vegas, and having INdian reservations with casinos kinda makes it all boring).

    So the question is, while the list of prohibited carry locations includes 'casinos' according to the Michigan State Police website, does that cover the hotel portions as well, or is there a differentiation?

    MSP was not sure when I called, and they actually directed me to call the hotel. The hotel gave two answers. One person said they too were unsure, and another said the ENTIRE property was a 'casino' for legal purposes, except the parking garage (in your own vehicle of course.) The AG office was my last resort for info, but they ended up eventually transferring me to the exact same lady I spoke with at the State Police office.

    Dead ends abound =(

    I kinda suspect the answer is as the 2nd person at the hotel reported, but I figured it might be worth asking around after the fact just to know for future reference.

    Oh, and I won't even have a rental vehicle so leaving it in the car isn't an option. (Not that I would do that even if it were an option.)

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    It's a good question. I'll tell you people here will probably argue both ways. I'll also tell you that both are just opinions unless they back it up with some binding case law.

    Opinions are like a**holes; everyone has them and they all stink.

    If you get "busted" we'll all be interested to see if case law gets made.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    316
    Haha, sounds like some "untested" laws we have here in Arizona too. To say the least, it's not something I'm even remotely willing to be the test case for, especially since it's tied to my job, which is in turn tied to my ability to support certain habits. Like eating.

    So yeah, I've pretty much decided to pass on this particular company meeting until the venue takes me away from that kinda risk =)

  4. #4
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Here is the relevant law.

    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.
    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino




    It doesn't really define a casino very well.

    If you do go, and opt not to carry handguns, minimally you could get away with a maglite and a nose spray bottle bored out and filled with ammonia (to clean your glasses along with a token micro fiber towel). I wouldn't want to be in Detroit relying on that combo, but I'd definitely take it over a 380.
    Last edited by Michigander; 08-25-2011 at 07:13 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Here is the relevant law.

    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.
    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino




    It doesn't really define a casino very well.

    If you do go, and opt not to carry handguns, minimally you could get away with a maglite and a nose spray bottle bored out and filled with ammonia (to clean your glasses along with a token micro fiber towel). I wouldn't want to be in Detroit relying on that combo, but I'd definitely take it over a 380.
    1st, these rules apply only to the Detroit area casinos, which are regulated by the Michigan Gaming Control Board.
    2nd Since you are going to be in one of these casinos, yes... these rules apply to you.
    3rd Now the issue of what is a "casino" under the law. The regulations promulgated by the Michigan Gaming Control Board (MGCB) state definitions:

    (g) "Casino" means a building in which gaming is conducted.

    (h) "Casino enterprise" means the buildings, facilities, or rooms functionally or physically connected to a casino, including but not limited to any bar, restaurant, hotel, cocktail lounge, retail establishment, or arena or any other facility located in a city under the control of a casino licensee or affiliated company.

    Source: http://www.michigan.gov/mgcb/0,1607,...5385--,00.html

    Although I am not an attorney and I am only stating my interpretation, I think that most of the hotels are attached to the casino BUT separated by a walkway or doorway. In that case, I would argue that the hotel is a hotel and not a casino. My reasoning is that the definitions above could be logically seen as mutually exclusive. There are "casinos" and then there are "casino enterprises". If the board wanted them to be the same thing, they would only have one term in the definitions. Also, if they wanted to prohibit firearms from the casinos and the attached hotels, etc, the CPL law could have been written to reference "casino enterprises" rather than "casinos". Courts would assume that the legislature knew the difference between the two. My personal suggestion would be to CC the pistol in the hotel and adjoining properties and, if you decide to go to or through the casino, I would securely stow the firearm in my room.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    28

    Cool

    ok allow me to weigh in. I would agree with the opinion that they're has to be some difference (or should be) in the hotel and the gaming areas. I do not know i have never ever stepped foot in a casino but have heard kids are not permitted if this is true and children are allowed in the hotel then there must be a difference. Again I am admittedly undereducated in regards to casinos and what is allowed. Isn't it nice (SARCASM) to see how law enforcement and justice professionals are unclear. The average sheeple looks to them for all the answers because, to many sheeple have drunk the Koolaid and wouldn't know what to do with their freedoms anyway.
    MORE BEER MORE BREAD WHAT TIME DOES THE CIRCUS OR THE NEXT BALL GAME START woo hoo!

    be well OP remember your bestest self defense tool is on your shoulders

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •