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Thread: 180gr. Golden Saber vs. 135gr. Cor Bon

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    180gr. Golden Saber vs. 135gr. Cor Bon

    After reading and seeing all different opinions about bullet weight versus velocity for penetration, I decided to have some fun and do a penetration test for myself, that I had watched others do.....I tried to keep everything exactly the same in reguards to both rounds.....so the results would be fair. Based on my scientific methods, the result were.....IF and WHEN I am ever attacked by some 1 gallon water jugs, I know which round I will have in my weapon!!! I forgot to add that the brass jacket on the Golden Saber was actually stuck in the second water jug on the exit side.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/missouri...y?feature=mhee
    Last edited by Richieg150; 08-27-2011 at 08:54 PM.
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Wtf!

    YOU ARE A TEASE!

    I thought we were gonna get to see the actual test and water blowing every where! TEASE

    Should relabel richie having fun but only showin aftermath!!!

    LOL

    I am a Speer gold dot fan, but I will say, I really do not think it matters, a darn wad cutter out of a 380 is far more than I ever want to get shot with!
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    I recorded my "Penetration Test" on my cell phone.It was interesting, but it would have been kinda hard to set it somewhere where it could have gotten the water jugs exploding.But after the outcry of not seeing the ACTUAL water jug carnage,LOL, I am thinkng on doing some more like it and next time I will use my cam to record, I would be able to set it up to catch all that on video.
    Last edited by Richieg150; 08-28-2011 at 02:01 PM.
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richieg150 View Post
    I recorded my "Penetration Test" on my cell phone.It was interesting, but it would have been kinda hard to set it somewhere where it could have gotten the water jugs exploding.But after the outcry of not seeing the ACTUAL water jug carnage,LOL, I am thinkng on doing some more like it and next time I will use my cam to record, I would be able to set it up to catch all that on video.

    Did a milk jug filled with water and the cap back on at 30 or so yards with a 30.30 one year the last day of deer season, you would have thought I shot it with a bazooka the way the water exploded that jug!

    Good looking out and doing the test.

    One question though, you went with the one with the highest penetration and while I understand the more power theory, didn't that indicate to you that over penetration might be a problem aka go through bad guy and into unintended target?
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    The point I tried to determine for myself was,"Does the Cor Bon 135gr. JHP moving at 1325fps. actuall live up to THEIR claim of deep penetration. So I chose the Golden Saber 180gr. BJHP moving at 925fps.,which is a bullet some LEO's and government agencies carry. Im not sure about the overpenetration, but from what I found out: A higher velocity lighter round doesnt necessarily mean greater penetration, the slower heavier bullet had greater penetration. Months ago there was a debate on this very topic, and I stated that the Cor Bon round should be the round to carry based on THEIR claim to deep penetration. Based on my "TEST", I now carry the Golden Saber 180gr. BJHP in my SW99.Im thinking that as long as I'm not useing FMJ rounds, they shouldnt go thru somebody when shot.Useing a round that LEO's and government agencies isnt a bad idea either, if you ever have to use your weapon.I will add that I checked Remingtons website and they list the velocity of the Golden Saber round I tested at 1015fps.,but I remembered someone else testing that round and it chronoed at 925fps., thats where I came up with that velocity.
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    It's usually a trade-off. With lighter weight bullets, you can push them faster. While heavier bullets move slower, they tend to penetrate more. I have conducted extensive personal testing with various weights of different brand .45ACP hollow points.

    I was prompted by purchasing a 3" STI. With shorter barrel lengths comes lower velocities. Since velocity is what causes hollow points to expand, I wanted to guarantee that the bullets coming out of my short 3" barrel would perform the way they were intended.

    So I bought boxes of:

    230 gr Remington Golden Sabres
    165 & 230 gr Federal HydraShoks
    200 gr Hornady XTP's
    165 gr CorBon Pow-R-Balls

    I fired half the boxes through a chrono and put a full magazine of each into a pickup bedliner filled with water (on the ground, not in the truck).

    Out of all of these, the Golden Sabres, while still expanding correctly, were POOCHES averaging a little over 800 fps. They also had the widest variation. I believe the fastest was around 847, the majority were around 820-830 and one was even around 775. I could fire one, go make a sammich, then come back to see the splash. POOCHES.

    The 230 gr Hydra-Shoks were also a little slow around 900 and while they expanded, they didn't do so FULLY. The 165 gr Hydra-Shoks were a little faster towards 1000, and while expanding fully, they tended to shed their copper jacket.

    The 200 gr Hornady's were HOT around 1150-1200 fps and expanded fully, and while I thought the 165 gr Pow-R-Balls were a little hyped on their 1350 fps label on the box...THEY WEREN'T LYING. I got several 1200-1250 readings out of my 3". (I imagine I'd have no problem hitting the advertised 1350 out of a full sized barrel.)

    Therefore, I imagine I'd get a little better penetration out of the heavier 200 gr. Hornady's than the 165 gr. Pow-R-Balls even though they're a scosh slower, but I took other factors into consideration as well. I like the polymer round nose of the Pow-R-Balls when it comes to reliablitly in a 1911. The fact that there is no hollow-point profile or bullet lip to cause feed problems against the ramp, barrel throat, or chamber ceiling is comforting to me. It feeds like a round nose. Technically, it is. The plastic stuff just melts on impact also ensuring reliable expansion. Therefore, my choice has been to put a 200 gr Hornady in the pipe (no worries about feeding...it's already in there) for penetration on the first shot, followed by 165 gr Pow-R-Balls waiting in the loaded mag and the spare on my hip for reliable feeding and expansion. (Although I had no problems with the Hornady's expanding, either.)

    All in all, I think ANY round you carry will be good as long as YOU are comfortable with them. While Golden Sabres aren't my personal choice, I don't think they are bad. They were just too slow for MY personal choice out of a 3" barrel. If you carry a full size firearm, you might get better performance that meets your standards. As with anything, we each have to make decisions based on our own personal "equipment tests" and preferences. Do what YOU are comfortable with for YOUR reasons.

    When I carry my XDm .40, It's loaded with Winchester RA40T's (Ranger-T's.) They are AWESOME expanders and that particular pistol LOVES them as I can hold a quarter sized group at 25 feet...unsupported. Other rounds don't seem to hold such a tight group out of that pistol. Completely different standard from my 1911: Accuracy.

    Out of my 1911, there wasn't enough variation in accuracy between the different brands to warrant a choice based on that variable. But in my XDm? The Winchesters noticeably outperformed the others. I dunno. It just likes them. Therefore, I chose them based on that variable rather than feed characterisics.

    Same with anyone else. They're going to have to decide their own preferences based on the characteristics important to them.

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Here is some (much more) relevant data, IMHO, which was conducted under more controlled circumstances and with a much larger sampling rate. IMO, 12" of penetration in Bare Gelatin would be the MINIMUM amount of penetration I would want in an EDC ammo:

    http://le.atk.com/pdf/Ft_CollinsPoliceDpmt.pdf

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