Kimberling City Gun Show

Went to the Kimberling City Gun Show today. It was pretty small, maybe 30 tables, tops. Primarily rifles in the .22 range, though there were some really nice pieces. OCed for a good hour and a half, noone commented even after I drew my gun a few times from its holster to check on other holsters some of the guys had for sale. Strangely enough, noone else was openly carrying a handgun.

Verd said:

OCed for a good hour and a half, noone commented even after I drew my gun a few times from its holster to check on other holsters some of the guys had for sale.

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Please tell me you weren't trying holsters with your loaded carry gun.

KBCraig said:

Please tell me you weren't trying holsters with your loaded carry gun.

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God i hope he wasn't. That completely puts a black eye on what we are trying to advocate, as that is not sensible at all.

No... why would I be dumb enough to do that? Even though I carry it loaded but unchambered, whenever I take it out of the holster to show or to try something like a holster, the mag comes out and I check it. Sheesh, I may have a low post count but I'm not a newb.

Verd said:

No... why would I be dumb enough to do that? Even though I carry it loaded but unchambered, whenever I take it out of the holster to show or to try something like a holster, the mag comes out and I check it. Sheesh, I may have a low post count but I'm not a newb.

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New question. Why unchambered? Is that your typical mode of carry?

Verd said:

No... why would I be dumb enough to do that? Even though I carry it loaded but unchambered, whenever I take it out of the holster to show or to try something like a holster, the mag comes out and I check it. Sheesh, I may have a low post count but I'm not a newb.

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I also was wondering why you carry a self defense gun with a loaded magazine but not a round in the chamber. That 1/10th of a second or more it would take to chamber a round could get you killed in a SHTF situation. Also no matter how much one practices chambering there is always the chance of a misfeed and that would sure get one killed.

9026543 said:

I also was wondering why you carry a self defense gun with a loaded magazine but not a round in the chamber. That 1/10th of a second or more it would take to chamber a round could get you killed in a SHTF situation. Also no matter how much one practices chambering there is always the chance of a misfeed and that would sure get one killed.

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Amen on that one. I watched a video several years back on the topic and what was a true simulation of "surprise" even though folks knew they were going to at some point be "attacked" when they were, a great many folks failed at cambering a round.I do not mean they were so slow they got shot, I mean they failed to get the slide all the way back, drew point and aimed when forgetting to rack the slide or rode the slide and caused a jam.

I do not recall the exact number but it was in the 20's on percent.

And to add to that, those whom stated they did not practice draw fire missed the safety on the 1911 cocked and locked and that was near 20 percent as well.

It was a live fire simulator, they simply added a PA horn at each possible target with a loud lions roar or similar to ad the startle effect to the pop up targets.

If you are going to carry unchambered I recommend you load up with snap caps and tell your significant other that at random times during the day you want them to slap you in the face as hard as they can and then time you to racked and POA on target, make sure you tell them to slap you from the back too. You may find that startle effect significantly reduces your ability to effectively defend yourself.

thebigsd said:

New question. Why unchambered? Is that your typical mode of carry?

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Because it is safer with three children in the house (not that any of them would ever pick up our guns, but if for some reason they suddenly turned into someone else, no matter how many times they pulled the triggers, there is noone getting hurt), because I feel more comfortable that way, and because my reaction times are pretty damn strong. My wife and I practice self defense shooting with a set of laser tag guns that shock you whenever you are hit. Since you can change the shocks on them from low to high, I modified them to shock you with a random voltage in a random time frame so that it better helps us focus. Works pretty damn well.

For those of you who do keep your guns chambered (and wonder why I do not as though I am just asking myself to get killed), what sort of defensive/tactical training do you do that makes that 1/10th of a second so important (especially since its been shown that someone can turn around during the flight of a bullet to make what would have been a chest shot turn into a shot in the back)?

Verd said:

Because it is safer with three children in the house (not that any of them would ever pick up our guns, but if for some reason they suddenly turned into someone else, no matter how many times they pulled the triggers, there is noone getting hurt), because I feel more comfortable that way, and because my reaction times are pretty damn strong. My wife and I practice self defense shooting with a set of laser tag guns that shock you whenever you are hit. Since you can change the shocks on them from low to high, I modified them to shock you with a random voltage in a random time frame so that it better helps us focus. Works pretty damn well.

For those of you who do keep your guns chambered (and wonder why I do not as though I am just asking myself to get killed), what sort of defensive/tactical training do you do that makes that 1/10th of a second so important (especially since its been shown that someone can turn around during the flight of a bullet to make what would have been a chest shot turn into a shot in the back)?

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I can fire 2 rounds into the attacker while you are racking the slide on your weapon and getting it into firing position.

But then again it is your life so do what you feel safe with.

LMTD said:

If you are going to carry unchambered I recommend you load up with snap caps and tell your significant other that at random times during the day you want them to slap you in the face as hard as they can and then time you to racked and POA on target, make sure you tell them to slap you from the back too. You may find that startle effect significantly reduces your ability to effectively defend yourself.

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I certainly hope you are joking, is a life in prison and the loss of a loved one worth this type of training(cough cough). Pay the money for professional training~~if you must train on your own use a non firearm, that is clear to the user it is fake. Never play slap arse games with a firearm period! Never!

This thread does not exist.



A headache caused by hitting one's self in the head with a hammer is not cured by switching to a pipewrench.

I was under the impression that all guns were to be treated as if they were loaded at all times. Removing a carried firearm from a holster under any circumstances other than to shoot it, store it, or clean it is problematic. The excuse "Well, it wasn't loaded" is the same (pardon my French) DUMBASS excuse I've heard 1000 times from folks who are just plain inexperienced around firearms. Hearing it here leads to the very relevant question: "Are you truely incompetent, or just acting like it?"

To suggest a remedy for "loaded chamber syndrome" (or "bangaphobia" as I like to call it) by slapping someone and drawing a firearm from its holster (with or without snapcaps) is STILL removing a carried firearm from its holster in a manner inconsistent with SAFETY. As I know you LMTD, I'm surprised at this coming from you. You've always seemed like a knowlegeable and responsible carrier.

This post simply confirmed my previous theory: Those who learn to carry with a chambered round tend to become hypersensitive to the handling of firearms. Whereas, those who choose to carry without a round chambered tend to become complacent becuase they get in the habit of "Well, it's not loaded."

What kind of person would you rather stand next to:

1) A person who carries a firearm ready to fire, therefore TREATS EVERY FIREARM AS IF IT WERE READY TO FIRE (because they are).

or

2) Someone who is constantly drawing and replacing their firearm with....without....in.......out...in....with the magazine....without the magazine....in...the holster......

...because they've learned: "Well, it isn't loaded."

You LEARN what you PRACTICE. I've LEARNED to treat every gun as if it were loaded, and I am hypersensitive to others doing so because I know that every gun I touch has ONE IN THE PIPE. I'm used to it. I've familiarized myself with the habit of carrying in this manner, therefore, I ALWAYS, without fail, treat every gun I touch as if it has one chambered. Because it does. It will go "BANG" without fail.

Well, if you LEARN what you PRACTICE, what do you learn if you carry without one in the chamber? You learn that the firearm in your holster, your hand, or setting on the table isn't really dangerous because you know that it really won't go "BANG" when you pull the trigger. You have learned an ingrained habit, therefore, for all the "treat every gun as if it is loaded" that you hear, it really doesn't register in the same manner, because deep inside, you have learned that....it really isn't loaded. Therefore, how can you be expected to deeply understand the implications (real or imagined) of nonchalantly removing and replacing your firearm in and out of its holster?

Superlite27 said:

{SNIP}

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No, my wife and I treat our guns as though they are capable of discharge the moment the trigger is pulled unless we have first dropped the mag and checked the chamber. I treat ever gun like this. I treat my shotgun the same way, even though I don't keep it loaded (the first thing I do when I touch it is to open it up to confirm that it is unloaded and if I am going to carry it from inside to my firing area outside, I keep it open until I am ready to fire it). However, while I treat my guns like they are loaded, chambered, safety is off, and they are using a single action trigger, I also at the same time know they are not. When my family gets together to shoot, we never chamber a round that someone else is going to shoot (we never chamber a round until we have the gun pointed at the target) so that is how I have learned. If, for example, I was at a gun range with you and you handed me your gun that you always keep a bullet in the chamber, I am going to chamber it before I fire. Hell, the way my wife and I train for tactical defense, even if we kept our guns with a bullet in the chamber, we would still chamber a new round before shooting. But that doesn't mean I remove my gun from it's holster willy-nilly like... I thumb the strap, pull it out maybe an inch which is enough clearance for me to toggle the mag, pull it out the rest of the way and with it pointed at the ground I pull out the mag and clear the chamber/check the chamber. Then and only then do I treat the gun as safe (though I still never point the gun in the direction of another person, always only pointed at the ground).