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Question about Michigan CPL

BGordon42

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
52
Location
Formerly St. Louis, MI, now New Haven, Indiana, US
Hello,

I was visiting a friend in Michigan on Saturday. I live in Indiana, and we were discussing CPL/LTCH reprocitity between the two states. He then proceeds to show me his Arizona CCW permit (or CPL, or whatever it is called in Arizona). He has a second home he maintains in Arizona and lives at for a couple of months a year, but his primary residence is in Michigan. I say "primary residence" because his driver's license is issued by Michigan. We talk for a couple of minutes more and then it dawns on me so I ask him if he has his Michigan CPL. He answers no. According to my friend, a retired chief of police friend of his told him (and I am paraphrasing here) he didn't need the Michigan CPL because my friend has a home he maintains in Arizona and has an Arizona CCW. I didn't think to ask my friend or look close enough at the Arizona license to see if it was a non-resident.

My question is, regardless of the second home, doesn't my friend have to have a Michigan CPL since his "primary residence" is in Michigan?

My thanks in advance.
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
In order for MI to recognize the permit the permit and DL have to be from the same state.

Let's not forget about 18 USC 922 either...
 

BGordon42

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
52
Location
Formerly St. Louis, MI, now New Haven, Indiana, US
In order for MI to recognize the permit the permit and DL have to be from the same state.

Let's not forget about 18 USC 922 either...

Thanks Q.

I Googled 18 U.S.C. § 922, but on the surface it appears to cover actions by FFL holders (importation, transfer, etc). I did not see a section that covered the situation I described, but I will comb through the Code more thoroughly.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Thanks Q.

I Googled 18 U.S.C. § 922, but on the surface it appears to cover actions by FFL holders (importation, transfer, etc). I did not see a section that covered the situation I described, but I will comb through the Code more thoroughly.

He was referring to out of state CPLs do not meet the requirements of gun free zones. The CPL exception only applies to the state the CPL is issued from. So he would have to be careful of school zones.

My opinion in your case is that your friend needs to get a AZ DL or get a Michigan CPL. He might as well since you don't need a CPL to OC or CC in AZ.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Hello,

I was visiting a friend in Michigan on Saturday. I live in Indiana, and we were discussing CPL/LTCH reprocitity between the two states. He then proceeds to show me his Arizona CCW permit (or CPL, or whatever it is called in Arizona). He has a second home he maintains in Arizona and lives at for a couple of months a year, but his primary residence is in Michigan. I say "primary residence" because his driver's license is issued by Michigan. We talk for a couple of minutes more and then it dawns on me so I ask him if he has his Michigan CPL. He answers no. According to my friend, a retired chief of police friend of his told him (and I am paraphrasing here) he didn't need the Michigan CPL because my friend has a home he maintains in Arizona and has an Arizona CCW. I didn't think to ask my friend or look close enough at the Arizona license to see if it was a non-resident.

My question is, regardless of the second home, doesn't my friend have to have a Michigan CPL since his "primary residence" is in Michigan?

My thanks in advance.
If he stated the primary v secondary argument to a LEO, he would most likely lose.
Actually, a police officer could take his word for it or choose to arrest your friend. Michigan law states that a Michigan resident must have permit from Michigan. But technically, this only referred to someone who was ONLY a Michigan resident. Although one can only have one residence at a time, he could argue that his residence in Arizona is his residence.
A court would definitely look at the totality of the circumstances... ie driver's license, vehicle registration, state of employment etc. The more indices of Michigan residency a person has, the more likely it is a court would rule against your friend... and I think vehicle registration, voter registration, and driver's license would perhaps be weighted more than other factors. If I were he, I would get the Michigan CPL. Yes, it is expensive, but it does provide more reciprocity than a license from Arizona. Also, I would rather pay the money for a CPL than pay the thousands of dollars for legal council, not to mention the cost of a felony if found guilty. If that happened, he also may never be able to possess a firearm never again.

See People v Williams (1997)

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bardwell/people_v_williams.txt
 

Bronson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
Are his handguns registered in MI? If I was a cop I'd nail him. MI driver's license = MI resident in my book.

From our CPL licensing satute, 28.425b (excerpt)

For the purposes of this section, a person shall be considered a legal resident of this state if any of the following apply:

(i) The person has a valid, lawfully obtained Michigan driver license issued under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923, or official state personal identification card issued under 1972 PA 222, MCL 28.291 to 28.300.

(ii) The person is lawfully registered to vote in this state.

(iii) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is stationed outside of this state, but the person's home of record is in this state.

(iv) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is permanently stationed in this state, but the person's home of record is in another state.

Like I said, if he's got a MI license he's a MI resident.

Bronson
 
Last edited:

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
Are his handguns registered in MI? If I was a cop I'd nail him. MI driver's license = MI resident in my book.

From our CPL licensing satute, 28.425b (excerpt)



Like I said, if he's got a MI license he's a MI resident.

Bronson

Well it seems to me just because you have a MI DL or registered to vote or anything like that would not totally qualify you to have to get the MI CPL. Take for example I decide to Indiana. I still have a MI DL but I get an Indiana DL, register my car in Indiana, and get an Indiana LTCH. I still have my MI DL and am registered to vote but would I still be required to get a MI CPL if I were to come up to MI to visit family? I would hope not! But from the sound of his friends situation he would get nailed on that Arizona permit thing.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Well it seems to me just because you have a MI DL or registered to vote or anything like that would not totally qualify you to have to get the MI CPL. Take for example I decide to Indiana. I still have a MI DL but I get an Indiana DL, register my car in Indiana, and get an Indiana LTCH. I still have my MI DL and am registered to vote but would I still be required to get a MI CPL if I were to come up to MI to visit family? I would hope not! But from the sound of his friends situation he would get nailed on that Arizona permit thing.

I think it is against the law to have two DLs.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
It is, even from the same state.

If you could just keep a back up in your car, they would miss out on the very expensive ticket for simply being a forgetful human being.

Idk about that. I got a DL when I turned 16 then when I turned 17 they sent me another DL because the first one tech had a restriction on it because I was only 16. Never was told I had to turn in the one I had when I turned 16.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
Couple friends had kept them, were searched, and the extra one was confiscated. They were not happy.

Hmm weird. Is it possible to get 2 MI CPL? If my wallet were to ever get stolen or something I'd want to have some sort of back-up.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
It would save you getting your gun taken. I dont recall the cite, but if you dont have your CPL on you, they take the gun, and you have (40?) days to prove you had a CPL or it is lost to forfeit.

They only take it? Seems to be if there is no way for them to look it up they'd not only take the gun downtown but you too.
 
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