One may never plan to go to either NV or WA, but may end up having to go there on short notice.
One answer to that is if one does feel that they might suddenly feel the need to travel to those states then, yes, a UT permit might be the best option.
Another answer to that is if someone feels they might suddenly find themselves in another state then why pick on only those two? Would not California or Oregon be just as likely? If that is the case then one should feel compelled to get a CA and a OR permit as well.
Yet one more answer is that NV and WA are unlicensed open carry states, problem solved.
I may never go to ND and I am not going to travel all the way to ND just to get ND training and apply for a ND permit.
Then don't get the ND permit. It's an option for those that travel. You have already stated that people with a MN permit should abandon it. If people are willing to get a MN permit to carry in MN then I see no reason to assume that these same people would be opposed to getting the ND permit to carry in ND.
AZ/UT is the only non-resident permit combination that will be recognized in every state that recognizes non-resident permits and one can apply by mail.
Now you are just changing the "rules". If people have a MN permit then they would have had to travel to get a permit. I would assume this process would be part of their normal travels in that state.
And I will bet you that FL & MI will recognize a WI permit. CO may reconize a WI permit, but there is slim chance SC, NH or ME will.
Agreed. But if people are willing to travel to MN to get a permit there then they should be willing to travel to any other state to get the non-resident permit.
Still saving money. With all the training that I have received, I still have to pay for more? It would cost me over $120 in gas to drive there and back. How am I saving money?
If you are not going to travel to that state then you don't need the permit. If you are already going to that state then take the time to get the permit. I'm not suggesting people make a special trip, just take the time to get the permit while you are there.
The money savings comes in buying only those permits you need and no more.
What about those that don't travel to MN anyway for business of pleasure.
If one is not going to travel in MN they why bother with the MN or UT permits?
I have not neglected the cost of training as to favor AZ and UT permits. All the permits that we have talked about require training. I have more training certificates than I could possibly need to apply for a permit. And training costs are very subjective. There is no set price for everyone.
I would not use the word "subjective" but rather "variable" but I get your point. AZ and MN allow for a much wider variety of training options and therefore much greater chance to save on costs. UT has one course that all must take and, because of market forces, the prices are much less variable.
There are other non-resident permits I may apply for if I end up traveling that way. Why would I? OTR Truck Driving.
Everyone else does not travel as much as you do. That is why I encourage people to think carefully to avoid buying a permit they may not need and/or spend more than they need to.
That is the stupidest thing I have read from you. What about the 32 other states they would be recognized in. Or with AZ/UT 33 other states.
If you are not going there then why do you need the permit?
It's not a slight detour if you are not going that way to begin with.
If you are not going there then why do you need the permit?
Like I said before, I want to do business with a state that is leading the nation in the Constitutional Carry movement. I won't be giving MN any of my money.
Like I said before I don't like how Utah has been handling things so I won't give them any more of my money. This is a decision based on personal principles and therefore is a personal decision.
Many consumer grade ink jet printers do print photos on photo paper. If not, take your digital photo to the photo center at Wal-mart and have them printed real cheap.
Cheap is not free.
It costs me $50 in gas to make a round trip to Minnesota in my personal vehicle. What was your cost for fingerprints and photos that I would be saving?
Then don't go to Minnesota. This is a personal decision. I know many people that travel regularly to Minnesota. For those people it seems to me that they could save some money by getting the MN permit instead of the UT permit. With UT changing their permit laws one cannot be assured that MN will recognize the UT permit. We can be reasonably assured that MN will continue to recognize their own permit. For people that live in the Midwest it seems much more likely they'd find themselves in Minnesota while traveling than Utah.
On business, I cannot be taking detours in a CMV. And I have no idea where I will end up for a 34HR Restart if I don't make it home.
Then don't make the detour. This is a personal decision. As much as you are holding on to the superiority of the UT permit it's making me think you are selling UT permit training.
The AZ/UT permit combo is not going to be the best solution for everyone. With so many states out there that recognize just about any resident permit I'm starting to think that there is very little need to even get an out of state permit.
With the AZ, MN, and UT permits costing somewhere around $100 in fees, documents, training and etc. it seems to me that someone that wants to get the best deal might just want to pick one and be done. The first permit (and therefor the first $100) will get recognition in somewhere between 20+ and 30+ states. The second permit (and perhaps another $100) will get a person another three, or maybe a dozen more. There is diminishing returns with every additional permit. This diminishing returns is compounded if those states gained are not ones that the person in question feels they have any intention to visit.
It's great that you found the best solution for yourself. I believe that sharing this experience with others has value. What I dispute is that your solution is the best solution for everyone else. This is especially true since part of your decision is based on personal principles. Not everyone shares your ideals, I certainly don't.
I am also disputing how you have calculated the costs of these permits. Not everyone has access to a digital camera. Even if they do the process of creating a photo fitting the specifications of the UT license authority is not trivial. With the cost difference between these permits being so small that cost can make the difference in your claim of "cheaper".
Take my situation for example. I was in the military so I have a DD-214 form to show many of these license authorities as proof of meeting their training requirements. When I decided to get a permit to carry I added up the fees, document costs, training costs, etc. In my calculations the FL permit was the cheapest since it meant I did not have to get any other training. At the time a UT/MN training course was being offered for $80. That training cost was enough to make the FL permit look cheap by comparison. Even though the FL permit worked out so well for me I know better than to claim that it's the best solution for everyone else.
Brokensprocket, I believe you need to back up a bit and take another look at what you propose. Not everyone lives like you do. Not everyone travels as much as you do. Not everyone is so opposed to taking trips to another state to get a permit like you are. Some people might even like the idea of going to North Dakota to take the live fire test, that could just be entertainment for them.
Again, it sounds like you found a great deal for yourself and felt the need to tell others about it. Nothing wrong with that. There is a problem with telling me I'm stupid because I don't share your enthusiasm.
