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Thread: Open Carry of a Revolver

  1. #1
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    Open Carry of a Revolver

    I posted this in the general discussion and was told it may suit me better to post it here (Michigan Board I hope! I'm still a rookie here) in my own states board.

    I got to thinking today and was wondering how one would properly open carry a revolver. Most of my
    handguns are revolvers and I was thinking about carrying one. The reason I ask is I know to be legal with an
    semi-auto you can not have a round in the chamber. Is this just a safety issue or is it to slow your ability to present your firearm and fire? Is this just as simple as putting a empty chamber under the hammer? I thought this could be one of them sticky issues and figured I should ask just to be safe. If this question was addressed before I
    am sorry I must have missed it when looking.

    Don

  2. #2
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    First. welcome. I have to ask, though, under what law is it illegal to carry a round in the chamber... who told you this?
    Last edited by DrTodd; 08-28-2011 at 04:08 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    First. welcome. I have to ask, though, under what law is it illegal to carry a round in the chamber... who told you this?

    I was told this by a Michigan State Trooper.
    Last edited by TheDon; 08-28-2011 at 04:12 PM. Reason: forgot a word

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    I was told this by a Michigan State Trooper.
    You were told incorrectly I'm afraid. In MI we can freely carry locked, loaded, and ready to shoot.

    This probably makes your whole question moot
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    I was told this by a Michigan State Trooper.
    Well, there is no law that states you must carry with an empty chamber. I don't know why a trooper would say such a thing; they usually don't cause ocers any grief... but I did say "usually". If you start reading the "stickies", some things you will see time after time is the phrase " don't talk to the police" and "don't ask a cop if something is illegal... they usually are wrong".
    Last edited by DrTodd; 08-28-2011 at 04:20 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Ok guys thanks! I got told this when a trooper talked to me when I was carrying. Maybe he was trying to discourage me from carrying.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    I was told this by a Michigan State Trooper.
    The Michigan State Trooper does not know the law.

    In Michigan, while carrying a firearm, there are really no regulations on ammo. Loaded, unloaded, ball, hollow point or mag capacity.

    Yes there are a few exceptions as there is a federal law against armor piercing hand gun ammo and also state DNR limits on ammo capacity while hunting water foul and deer etc.

    If your revolver is equipped with a "transfer bar" I would carry it with a full cylinder and if not then carry with an empty hole under the hammer for safety reasons. But there's not "law" governing that in Michigan.

    P.S. LEO's are generally the WORST place to seek true answers to legal questions.
    Last edited by dougwg; 08-28-2011 at 04:29 PM.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    I carry a 6" Colt DA fairly frequently. I carry it in a full coverage hunting holster. My Colt was manufactured in 1926 so it has absolutely no safeties so I usually leave the one under the hammer empty, the rest loaded.

    If I carry any of my semi-autos, they are locked and loaded. Not much good otherwise.

  9. #9
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I carry a 6" Colt DA fairly frequently. I carry it in a full coverage hunting holster. My Colt was manufactured in 1926 so it has absolutely no safeties so I usually leave the one under the hammer empty, the rest loaded.

    If I carry any of my semi-autos, they are locked and loaded. Not much good otherwise.

    But there is no law saying you MUST carry a wheel-gun (or semi-auto) this way....
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougwg View Post
    P.S. LEO's are generally the WORST place to seek true answers to legal questions.
    True and scary, seeing as they are the ones society tasks with maintaining the rule of law. It seems whatever they think, goes. Even if they are completely wrong.

    Ugh, I'm becoming more minarchist with age.

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    OP, do you have a CPL?

    And Welcome to OCDO BTW.

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    Everyone is correct above. When I carry my 1911 it is with a round in the chamber, cocked, and slide safety on (condition 1).

    My usual carry pistol is a .44 mag. Super Blackhawk. We have more bears than bad guys. It is carried with all 6 rounds in the cylinder. The holster is a Tom Threepersons style with an adjustable welt. The adjustable welt allows you to have a very tight fit making the strap redundant.

    This is similar to mine:

    http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...yln4BcwhOVIc2A

    My holster was custom made by Kenny Rowe:

    http://www.rowesleather.com/

    I hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    OP, do you have a CPL?

    And Welcome to OCDO BTW.

    Stainless1911 thanks for the welcome! As for your question no I do not have a CPL. One of the main reasons I ever open carry is I don't have a CPL. But I do enjoy educating people that don't know about it. I give them a pamphlet with some good OC websites and tell them to check it out. Police are normally not the problem around here its normally young girls or old ladies that get freaked out. As for why I joined this site. I am in school for Law Enforcement and want to know as much as I can about OC so I can be well educated when in the field. The last think I want to do is trample peoples rights. That's not only wrong but it gives LEOs a bad name. Also I really don't want to go to jail because some idiot yelled he's got a gun and I don't know the law on the subject.

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    Read the stickies. I dont want to see you get busted on some obscure, or poorly worded BS, and miss your shot at becoming a cop!

    MCL 750.234d

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(isc...e=mcl-750-234d

    MCL 750.231a

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(isc...e=mcl-750-231a

    MSP #86

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf

    Open Carry Guide Project.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-Guide-Project

    Liquor License By County.

    http://www2.dleg.state.mi.us/llist/
    Last edited by stainless1911; 08-29-2011 at 01:19 PM.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    I know to be legal with an
    semi-auto you can not have a round in the chamber.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    First. welcome. I have to ask, though, under what law is it illegal to carry a round in the chamber... who told you this?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    I was told this by a Michigan State Trooper.
    O_O



    Dude.....no....


    You wil learn real quick here that law enforcement is the absolute WORST source of advice for law
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    I was told this by a Michigan State Trooper.
    He's full of crap. Perfectly legal in MI to carry with a round in the chamber of a semi-auto, and the round under the hammer in a revolver isn't the one that will fire if you pull the trigger. It's the next one.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I carry a 6" Colt DA fairly frequently. I carry it in a full coverage hunting holster. My Colt was manufactured in 1926 so it has absolutely no safeties so I usually leave the one under the hammer empty, the rest loaded.

    If I carry any of my semi-autos, they are locked and loaded. Not much good otherwise.
    You can carry with a round under the hammer in any revolver except an old stype 3 screw Ruger or Colt SAA. No double action can hit the firing pin on the primer without pulling the trigger. The hammer is cammed away. Transfer bars are safest, of course, but don't worry about your Colt DA.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    [QUOTE=stainless1911;1601511]Read the stickies. I dont want to see you get busted on some obscure, or poorly worded BS, and miss your shot at becoming a cop!

    Thanks for the info! Its always good to be able to site an MCL when in contact with a LEO.

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    Not really, they dont seem to appreciate it, they take it like you're some internet ninja telling them how to do thier job. Some take it like a challenge, and try to raise the stakes on you, cops are often testosterone driven competitors, and turn it into some richard measuring contest that they have to "win".

    Know the laws, follow them, and save the arguing for the lawyers.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    But there is no law saying you MUST carry a wheel-gun (or semi-auto) this way....
    He is carrying it that way for safety reasons. Years ago black powder revolvers had no safety transfer bars. This included most cartridge black powder framed revolvers. When the switch to cartridge originally occurred the cartridges were rim fire so there was no other option than a empty chamber under the hammer.

    Now with center-fire cartridges it was a well accepted practice with the SAA to rest the firing pin(hammer) in between the case heads on center-fire cartridges. The drawback is the cylinder stop leaves a wear mark on the cylinder where it rests. If he does not mind the wear mark he can safely carry a full cylinder resting the hammer between case heads. A gunsmith can also machine a extra stop for this type of carry, the revolver after loaded is always put in this location until brought into use.

  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    He is carrying it that way for safety reasons. Years ago black powder revolvers had no safety transfer bars. This included most cartridge black powder framed revolvers. When the switch to cartridge originally occurred the cartridges were rim fire so there was no other option than a empty chamber under the hammer.

    Now with center-fire cartridges it was a well accepted practice with the SAA to rest the firing pin(hammer) in between the case heads on center-fire cartridges. The drawback is the cylinder stop leaves a wear mark on the cylinder where it rests. If he does not mind the wear mark he can safely carry a full cylinder resting the hammer between case heads. A gunsmith can also machine a extra stop for this type of carry, the revolver after loaded is always put in this location until brought into use.
    I was fully aware that one may do so for safety reasons... but it isn't a law. I prefer to direct my statements to what is written, not what I think they meant. That way, somebody is less likely to be mistaken about the actual law.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    You can carry with a round under the hammer in any revolver except an old stype 3 screw Ruger or Colt SAA. No double action can hit the firing pin on the primer without pulling the trigger. The hammer is cammed away. Transfer bars are safest, of course, but don't worry about your Colt DA.
    Actually this isn't quite true. The Smith & Wesson revolver originally used the rebound slide to block the hammer to provide a "safety" and this design resulted in, I believe, a British Naval Luetenant being killed when he dropped a Victory model on a steel ships deck. What happened is the hammer piviot pin sheared and this allowed the hammer to come forward and fire the gun. Post WWII S&W revolvers implemented a sliding positive hammer blocking safety that places a tab of steel between the base of the hammer and the frame. BTW, this new sliding hammer block was why post WWII S&W's carried a leasding S in the serial number post WWII and into the 50's to siginify that new safety feature. As for older Colt revolvers, I'm a S&W junkie and don't know much about Colts at all, to those into the S&W revolvers purchasing a Colt is considered "going over to the Dark Side".

    However, I firmly believe that you can only be safe with any firearm once you've done your due dilligence and looked into the particulars and history of what you intend to carry. Until that Leutenant was killed S&W considered it's use of the rebound slide to block the hammer to be perfectly adequate, as did most police agencies. After that incident, all S&W DA/SA revolvers carry the hammer block to this day and it's a very clever and positive safety that has no effect of trigger feel and is only a minor inconvenience when mounting the sideplate. Personally, I wouldn't carry a S&W revolver that didn't feature this hammer block, while that incident was likely a "just wrong" drop of the gun why take chances when there is no need for it, there are plenty of used model 10's and others available with this safety at very reasonable prices.

    As for that MSP officer stating it was illegal to carry with one in the chamber, NOT true and a bit surprizing. I know at one point the issue sidearms for the MSP were Sig Sauers with a rather heavy DA trigger. Perhaps they've gone to Glocks and he's seen all the Glock Leg incident posts and now carries with his chamber empty. If so, I sort of understand it because I prefer a Sig for carry over any other semi, simple revolver like manual of arms and no safety to remember to flip off. However, being up to speed with the manual of arms and paying attention can make carrying a Glock perfectly safe to carry with one in the chamber.

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